POX policy gone!!!

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MoPag
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POX policy gone!!!

Post by MoPag » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:12 am

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/ ... april-2019
Details shared by President Oaks
At the direction of the First Presidency, President Oaks shared that effective immediately, children of parents who identify themselves as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender may be baptized without First Presidency approval if the custodial parents give permission for the baptism and understand both the doctrine that a baptized child will be taught and the covenants he or she will be expected to make.

A nonmember parent or parents (including LGBT parents) can request that their baby be blessed by a worthy Melchizedek Priesthood holder. These parents need to understand that congregation members will contact them periodically, and that when the child who has been blessed reaches 8 years of age, a Church member will contact them and propose that the child be baptized.

Previously, our Handbook characterized same-gender marriage by a member as apostasy. While we still consider such a marriage to be a serious transgression, it will not be treated as apostasy for purposes of Church discipline. Instead, the immoral conduct in heterosexual or homosexual relationships will be treated in the same way.

The very positive policies announced this morning should help affected families. In addition, our members’ efforts to show more understanding, compassion and love should increase respect and understanding among all people of goodwill. We want to reduce the hate and contention so common today. We are optimistic that a majority of people — whatever their beliefs and orientations — long for better understanding and less contentious communications. That is surely our desire, and we seek the help of our members and others to attain it.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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MoPag
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Re: POX policy gone!!!

Post by MoPag » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:21 am

I can't believe Oaks said this.

Or maybe someone has made polyjuice potion and used one of his eyebrow hairs. And the real Oaks is locked in the bottom of a magical trunk. I bet Kristen Oaks did this. She's in on Sheri and Wendy's plan to take over the church. They got all the final rare ingredients they needed during their Rome, Italy trip.

However it happened, I'm happy for my LGBT+ Brothers and Sisters.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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Hagoth
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Re: POX policy gone!!!

Post by Hagoth » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:42 am

So when RMN said the policy was revelation, what exactly did he mean by that? Is this also revelation? My head hurts.

There is a bit of prestidigitation going on here though. Same-sex marriage is not apostasy, but same-sex cohabitation is cause for excommunication. Overall this is great news, but it is not quite what it appears on the surface.

They seem to be realizing that they have to start doing things to stop the hemorrhaging. Now let's get hopeful that they can figure out how to stop shaming their gay youth.

Is it too late?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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MoPag
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Re: POX policy gone!!!

Post by MoPag » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:49 am

As I'm celebrating this, I'm also thinking of the suicides that may not have happened...
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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Not Buying It
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Re: POX policy gone!!!

Post by Not Buying It » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:05 am

In an internet world, you can't just hope no one remembers what you said in the past, because this is what President Nelson said in February 2016:

https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php? ... type=cmsid

That led to the Utah-based faith's new policy regarding same-sex Mormon couples — that they would be labeled "apostates" and that their children would not be allowed baptism and other LDS religious rites until they turn 18.

"Each of us during that sacred moment felt a spiritual confirmation," Nelson, next in line for the Mormon presidency, told the faith's young adults in the first official explanation of the hotly debated policy's origins. "It was our privilege as apostles to sustain what had been revealed to President Monson."

Nelson explained that revelation from the Lord to his servants is a sacred process.

"The [three-member] First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles counsel together and share all the Lord has directed us to understand and to feel, individually and collectively," he said. "And then, we watch the Lord move upon the president of the church to proclaim the Lord's will."
Whatever. God sure has a hard time making his mind up about things sometimes. Maybe he got one of his late night revelatory scribbles mixed up or something.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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Stig
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Re: POX policy gone!!!

Post by Stig » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:47 am

Bwahahahahahaa! Just another piece of evidence that there is no such thing as revelation guiding this organization.
“Some say he’s wanted by the CIA and that he sleeps upside down like a Bat. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

“Some say that he lives in a tree, and that his sweat can be used to clean precious metals. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

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Bosch
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Re: POX policy gone!!!

Post by Bosch » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:10 am

The policy was wrong and will always leave a stain. I’m glad it’s gone.
"Once you label me, you negate me." S. Kierkegaard

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alas
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Re: POX policy gone!!!

Post by alas » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:42 am

So, instead of being excommunicated for apostasy, married gays will simply be excommunicated for fornication. I am so impressed. That still isn’t the same standard as straights, but at least they are not calling marriage apostasy. But my daughter and her wife are still out with no interest in the church at all.

Meanwhile, I am celebrating that my niece and her wife have finalized their adoption of their little boy, just today. Yea. I guess one thing that I am glad about with my brother’s accident and serious condition, is that it got me back in contact with my niece who kind of disappeared when she cut her mother out of her life. I am hoping that a new grandchild will help repair that rift, not that I think my sister in law deserves her daughter in her life, (SIL followed Oaks advice in disowning her gay child) but my niece needs the rest f her family.

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Nonny
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Re: POX policy gone!!!

Post by Nonny » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:12 pm

Somebody must have read Jana Reiss’s book. It’s time to save the Millenial generation!

So, will they retroactively reverse the excommunications done due to marriage, some even done in the past month? Will they encourage families to re-engage with their gay children? Can they come for dinner or stay overnight? I wonder how difficult it was for Oakes to make this statement considering all the hurtful things he has said in the past.

Well, I’m glad to see it. Perhaps Nelson is serious about turning this ship around. I don’t much care any more, but it is interesting to watch as an observer.

Edited: seems legit according to the Trib
Last edited by Nonny on Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lostinmiddlemormonism
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Re: POX policy gone!!!

Post by lostinmiddlemormonism » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:13 pm

alas wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:42 am
So, instead of being excommunicated for apostasy, married gays will simply be excommunicated for fornication. I am so impressed. That still isn’t the same standard as straights, but at least they are not calling marriage apostasy.

I am pleased to announce that as of today we will no longer hang people who disagree with us.
We will now use electrocution. Carry on."

-lost

lostinmiddlemormonism
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Re: POX policy gone!!!

Post by lostinmiddlemormonism » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:15 pm

Nonny wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:12 pm
I wonder how difficult it was for Oakes to make this statement considering all the hurtful things he has said in the past.
If there is such a thing as eternal justice then one can only hope the Oaks is sodomized daily until he learns to enjoy it.

-lost

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Nonny
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Re: POX policy gone!!!

Post by Nonny » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:21 pm

The two-faced-ness of this sort of thing just irks me.
“This is our new policy/doctrine/etc.”
Hail, revelation!
“No it’s not anymore”
Hail, revelation!

Watching TBMs fall all over themselves upholding the brethren without ever acknowledging the process is flawed.

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2bizE
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Re: POX policy gone!!!

Post by 2bizE » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:08 pm

The POX policy was placed under Monsons watch. Dead prophets are irrelevant and not as important as live ones.
~2bizE

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Red Ryder
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Re: POX policy gone!!!

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:16 pm

2bizE wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:08 pm
The POX policy was placed under Monsons watch. Dead prophets are irrelevant and not as important as live ones.
I've seen this comment on the MD&D board.

The revelation was short lived because we learned the necessary things God intended.

Why can't the simple obvious explanation be the explanation?
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

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Re: POX policy gone!!!

Post by wtfluff » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:34 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:16 pm
The revelation was short lived because we learned the necessary things God intended.
And what "necessary things" have been learned?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

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deacon blues
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Re: POX policy gone!!!

Post by deacon blues » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:56 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:34 pm
Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:16 pm
The revelation was short lived because we learned the necessary things God intended.
And what "necessary things" have been learned?
It occurred to me that some leaders and/or TBM's might justify it as a sifting out of the "not so faithful." Perhaps there will be many different explanations for this, but it certainly muddies the water for the Church as far as clarifying what is, and what isn't revelation.
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

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crossmyheart
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Re: POX policy gone!!!

Post by crossmyheart » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:57 pm

The church and the members are getting roasted online. Anywhere this story has been released to a non-lds media source, the comments are brutal.

I would put money on it that no one says a thing about it this weekend. Mum's the word at General Conference.

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Red Ryder
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Re: POX policy gone!!!

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:59 pm

crossmyheart wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:57 pm
The church and the members are getting roasted online. Anywhere this story has been released to a non-lds media source, the comments are brutal.

I would put money on it that no one says a thing about it this weekend. Mum's the word at General Conference.
Don't worry. Oaks will still make it very clear that homosexuality is a sin!

He will.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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Red Ryder
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Re: POX policy gone!!!

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:01 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:34 pm
Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:16 pm
The revelation was short lived because we learned the necessary things God intended.
And what "necessary things" have been learned?
I'm not going to out my TBM hat on to answer this. It doesn't fit and I tossed it.

However, FB comments so far are following this line of thinking:

God commanded Abraham to kill his son Isaac. Then changed his mind at the last second. Sometimes he uses children to teach us lessons.

WTF is that kind of thinking?????
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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achilles
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Re: POX policy gone!!!

Post by achilles » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:02 pm

Today Dallin H. Oaks:
Sorry, not sorry.
If there was ever proof to me that this organization is not led by revelation, but by voices in the heads of octogenarians, this is it. What, did Jesus think same-sex marriage was apostasy, and then change his mind after four years? Not likely.

I'm very glad that children won't be dragged into the middle of this anymore (unless they are LGBT, that is...). However, there was tremendous harm done to a significant segment of the church membership, and that won't be so easy to reverse. Additionally, the fact they are basically saying "Same-sex marriage =/= apostasy, but same sex sexual activity is still an abomination, unless it's done within marriage, however we don't recognize same-sex marriage and families"... all of this just stinks to high heaven.

It shows me that they still don't take the personal situation of LGBT folks seriously. The only possible interpretation of the facts of their lives is that they must be under some kind of f@#$ed up test inflicted by the God of Abraham. So we don't really have any obligation to use our authority to ask God to explain their lives... And it's no skin off our nose if they have to suffer under our narrow-minded view of their lives... as long as we can still have their children... It's all still a huge s@#5 show.

They still don't get that this isn't about sex. It's about the desire for companionship, stability, and family--which you would think Mormons would understand above all other things. But they don't. Because they don't have to. I went 44 years without having sex--it's possible and not a completely terrible thing. But the lack of companionship? The second-class citizenship in the Kingdom of God? The horrible realization that so-called apostles of Christ just don't give enough of a damn to ask God for revelation about our place in the Plan? I can't trust these guys. Ever again.
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”

― Carl Sagan

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