Hook, line and creamer

[mufflerman]

So, now that the weekend is over and there were no new announcements of substance, i'm reflecting on the rumors. I think many on both sides of the fence were surprised there were zero changes to anything. I would have loved to see the coffee/tea change made official, but I don't need anyone's approval for what I drink . It got me wondering if they had some changes ready to be released but with the S-storm that the POX release caused, maybe they walked back on releasing them....thoughts?

[jfro18]

I don't think they held anything back, and if anything I'm pretty sure they would prefer people to talk about coffee than their treatment of the LGBT community.

Although when it comes to coffee, garments, etc I really don't think that would be a big GenCon announcement, but something they'd quietly release as a 'policy change' through Deseret News as opposed to having a church leader talk about it on video.

Again I could be way off, but if they ever happen it will be without fanfare from leaders (I think?).

[nibbler]

It got me wondering if they had some changes ready to be released but with the S-storm that the POX release caused, maybe they walked back on releasing them....thoughts?

I doubt it. My guess is that they submit their talks a month in advance at the very least so legal, correlation, and the translation department can all go over them.

Maybe Nelson has made enough changes to feel like his legacy has been solidified so now we'll settle back into a pattern of the last few decades where general conference is a time when people think there's going to be a change, just to get up enough inertia to watch, but there never are any changes.

[Just This Guy]

It got me wondering if they had some changes ready to be released but with the S-storm that the POX release caused, maybe they walked back on releasing them....thoughts?

I doubt it. My guess is that they submit their talks a month in advance at the very least so legal, correlation, and the translation department can all go over them.

I have heard that the talks are supposedly reviewed before hand, but I'm not sure that I believe it.

Poelman, '84
D. Todd Christofferson '13
Packer '10

These are all talks that were edited after the fact to remove incorrect doctrine or other inconvenient statements.

Wither the amount of review is over hyped, or the content was missed or never actually flagged. Either way the process is not as rebust as is claimed. If it was, these would have been caught and corrected before it got to conference.

[dogbite]

i think coffee and tea would be slipped silently into Handbook, same as the original gay policy change. No announcement.

[Red Ryder]

I was totally disappointed until I realized I already drink coffee.

Maybe these rumors are the inner workings of the RID floating a few balloons. The TBM’s were hoping for coffee just as bad.

[Red Ryder]

It got me wondering if they had some changes ready to be released but with the S-storm that the POX release caused, maybe they walked back on releasing them....thoughts?

I doubt it. My guess is that they submit their talks a month in advance at the very least so legal, correlation, and the translation department can all go over them.

Maybe Nelson has made enough changes to feel like his legacy has been solidified so now we'll settle back into a pattern of the last few decades where general conference is a time when people think there's going to be a change, just to get up enough inertia to watch, but there never are any changes.

This makes sense.

By the way did anyone see Ned Flanders singing in the Tab Cats? When did they start allowing mustaches?

[nibbler]

I have heard that the talks are supposedly reviewed before hand, but I'm not sure that I believe it.

I'm only guessing about correlation and legal but I know that most translators don't do real-time translation. They get the talks sometime in advance (no telling how far in advance), translate them, then all the translator has to do on the day of is make sure they are keeping relative pace with the person giving the talk.

The translators don't always keep pace and will sometimes get ahead. In one FL session I attended the translator finished the talk a full minute before the person giving the talk.

Edit: the prayers are real time translation.

[Just This Guy]

If they do check talks, it seems to me like they do a very poor job. at a minimum, they don't run them past the PR department to see what the public would likely have a fit over. If they did, things like Ander's homophobic talk or RMN's scorched earth would be very different.

We know that they do a poor job of verifying sources. Just look at RFM's multiple podcasts on the factual errors of multiple conference talks.

This is pure speculation assuming talked are proof read, there are still plenty of places for error to enter the system.

* Personal bias or ignorance of doctrine/policies by the fact checker. In the case of Oaks claims that Homosexuality is a choice in '10, it is possible the person checking didn't know about the church's public statement that the cause was unknown.
* High leadership may be exempt from correlation checks? If the prophet is speaking, then it has to be right, right?
* Talks being rushed though last minute that can't get proper attention.
* Recommended changes getting overruled by the writer?

[Journey]

Weren’t the most recent and most substantial changes announced in between conferences? I would then expect the next set of changes to be announced in the coming months. More control over the message that way.

[BriansThoughtMirror]

Although when it comes to coffee, garments, etc I really don't think that would be a big GenCon announcement, but something they'd quietly release as a 'policy change' through Deseret News as opposed to having a church leader talk about it on video.

I don't think they'd even do that. I think they'd just quietly stop talking about it, drawing practically no attention. 10 years later, it was never doctrine.

[wtfluff]

Weren’t the most recent and most substantial changes announced in between conferences? I would then expect the next set of changes to be announced in the coming months. More control over the message that way.

2-hour church was announced in conference. Other changes announced willy-nilly when Rusty's magic pen feels like waking him up at night.

This time 'round, there was the big announcement that they're no longer documenting their bigotry in the handbook, they'll just continue to spew it over the pulpit (see Anderson's hate-speech.) And then: The rest of the convention was one giant Nothing-Burger. Maybe Rusty's pen has run out of magic.

[DPRoberts]

By the way did anyone see Ned Flanders singing in the Tab Cats? When did they start allowing mustaches?

He probably won't have it next conference. I knew a guy who had a mustache when he first got in, but bowed to pressure fairly quickly.

[DPRoberts]

I have wondered whether some of the rumors are deliberately planted through specific sources. It is a known counterespionage technique to try to catch leakers. Hopefully Bill Reel and others are not putting their sources at risk.

[2bizE]

It got me wondering if they had some changes ready to be released but with the S-storm that the POX release caused, maybe they walked back on releasing them....thoughts?

I doubt it. My guess is that they submit their talks a month in advance at the very least so legal, correlation, and the translation department can all go over them.

I have heard that the talks are supposedly reviewed before hand, but I'm not sure that I believe it.

Poelman, '84
D. Todd Christofferson '13
Packer '10

These are all talks that were edited after the fact to remove incorrect doctrine or other inconvenient statements.

Wither the amount of review is over hyped, or the content was missed or never actually flagged. Either way the process is not as rebust as is claimed. If it was, these would have been caught and corrected before it got to conference.

I had a buddy that spoke Mnong, and he would translate during conference in Mnong. Anyway, he would get the conference talks a few weeks before so he could translate them into that language, and then be ready to broadcast live.

[Culper Jr.]

By the way did anyone see Ned Flanders singing in the Tab Cats? When did they start allowing mustaches?

Oh yeah, I saw that. It made for a fun "Where's Waldo" style game for me and my daughter.

This conference was a fundamental shift for me in the way I think about the Q15 and other leaders. I used to see them as caring at least on some level for the well being of the membership and being stuck between the policies and pronouncements of past prophets (lots of p's there) and wanting to be at least somewhat progressive. After this conference, I no longer think they care about the membership at all outside of what they can gain from the membership's service and money. They are not making hard decisions about members who suffer (abuse, LGBT for example) to preserve the doctrine of the church against the progressing values of society. There are not just a couple of hard-a$$es among other generally caring leaders. With maybe a couple of debatable exceptions, they ALL fundamentally DO NOT CARE about the members. Every concession to things the members want (2 hour church, walking back the POX) are coincidental to something the Q15 want or are grudgingly doing out of some necessity. I thought something like loosening up on WoW, or garments, or ANYTHING would have shown the members that they are at least listening and making an effort to make life easier for families, especially in mixed faith situations. Instead of coffee, we get hate filled BS from the top 3 threatening the salvation of anyone who doesn't pay and obey. Even Eyring was throwing it out there. Any residual respect or goodwill that I had for these men is now gone.

[Linked]

By the way did anyone see Ned Flanders singing in the Tab Cats? When did they start allowing mustaches?

Not sure if it was the same guy, but me and my kids kept looking for the guy who looked like he was wearing the disguise glasses; big glasses, bushy mustache. I think he may get lasik, shave, and get a nose job for next conference and we won't know who he is anymore.

[Anon70]

By the way did anyone see Ned Flanders singing in the Tab Cats? When did they start allowing mustaches?

Not sure if it was the same guy, but me and my kids kept looking for the guy who looked like he was wearing the disguise glasses; big glasses, bushy mustache. I think he may get lasik, shave, and get a nose job for next conference and we won't know who he is anymore.

Us too! We called him Groucho

[EternityIsNow]

Weren’t the most recent and most substantial changes announced in between conferences? I would then expect the next set of changes to be announced in the coming months. More control over the message that way.

This also keeps them in the news cycle. More attention. Count on regular revelations from the current gang of three.

[Just This Guy]

I had a buddy that spoke Mnong, and he would translate during conference in Mnong. Anyway, he would get the conference talks a few weeks before so he could translate them into that language, and then be ready to broadcast live.

I could see it being a matter of timing. They have several dozen talk to go though and they have a deadline to meet to get the talks ready for the translators. So whatever review they go though likely can get rushed as they have to look though everything, likely very boring work, and get them to the next step in the chain to meet schedule. Things are going to get missed.

On the Tab choir and facial hair, In the late 90's, my dad had a coworker who was part of the choir. He had a mustache. He traditionally sported a full beard, but shaved down to a 'stache when he joined the choir. That was how you could spot him during conference and M&SW.