Wrapping our identities in the church

[jfro18]

This might be better in the mixed faith board but I think it's more than just mixed faith couples so let me know if I should move it...

Last night DW and I talked about navigating church issues at our first couples therapy session in a while, and she had brought up that she's looked at what I've written on Twitter (she doesn't read *any* specifics that I link to from twitter) and mentioned that she feels like I must think she's a brainwashed, closed minded idiot.

I told her that I don't view her as the church (or any members to that point), I view her as the person I've known since we were 13 years old. When I mention that people can't see it until they have an open mind, I just mean that people who are not ready to really dive in will never accept any evidence as real.

She responded that her identity is the church, and that without the church she would not be the person she is... for better or worse, the church is what made her. The feelings she gets reading the BoM she can't deny, and she doesn't need to worry about "mistakes made 100 years ago."

I know many of us have been in this kind of position when you leave and the spouse stays, but it's just such a hopeless feeling even though most of us at some point identified with the church to an extent that the thought of looking outside of it was paralyzing.

Just venting a bit, but just thought last night a lot about how the church is so incredibly good at leveraging emotions into making us think all of our worth and value is because of them. Not just in being told that everything good that we have is because of Mormonism, but that if we leave we will lose and joy in our lives.

It sucks.

[profit_seizer]

This resonated, hard. DW grew up in Utah with seminary council and Trek and EFY and all the rest. Of course the church is tied up in her identity. (And my having grown up in the <retch> mission field maybe should tell me to extend grace to Mormons and Exmos alike who have been acculturated in ways that I haven't.) She had a moment of doubt but she's doubling down now. Of course she is, the modern world is in upheaval and people want anchors.

Solidarity, dude. This is a hard spot to be in.

[Red Ryder]

She responded that her identity is the church, and that without the church she would not be the person she is... for better or worse, the church is what made her. The feelings she gets reading the BoM she can't deny, and she doesn't need to worry about "mistakes made 100 years ago."

We've all been here. Then we woke up and saw that the world as a big beautiful place with more to it than Mormons.

My wife used to parrot this until she started to see the world differently. Not through the lens of disaffection. But through the lens of travel, nature, and people.

She started to find friends to hike with. Then she became aware of different perspectives. We watch all kinds of documentaries that open her mind to new ideas.

She's still mormon but doesn't wrap her identity in it like she used to.

You really have to open up your world and build upon new experiences.

Think of it as a journey that both of you can go on. Stop the anti-Mormonism and find new things to do that are a net positive.

Dismantling faith is a huge negative. It takes your time, your energy, your motivation, your soul, and eventually your relationship.

Turn your experience inward and find positive new things to do. Eventually your momentum will be focused on your new interests and positive life and suddenly Mormonism will become insignificant and something you (may) still do for 2 hours a week.

Become indifferent to Mormonism.

Find your new passions.

Live life and prosper! Nanoo Nanoo!

[alas]

She responded that her identity is the church, and that without the church she would not be the person she is... for better or worse, the church is what made her. The feelings she gets reading the BoM she can't deny, and she doesn't need to worry about "mistakes made 100 years ago."

We've all been here. Then we woke up and saw that the world as a big beautiful place with more to it than Mormons.

My wife used to parrot this until she started to see the world differently. Not through the lens of disaffection. But through the lens of travel, nature, and people.

She started to find friends to hike with. Then she became aware of different perspectives. We watch all kinds of documentaries that open her mind to new ideas.

She's still mormon but doesn't wrap her identity in it like she used to.

You really have to open up your world and build upon new experiences.

Think of it as a journey that both of you can go on. Stop the anti-Mormonism and find new things to do that are a net positive.

Dismantling faith is a huge negative. It takes your time, your energy, your motivation, your soul, and eventually your relationship.

Turn your experience inward and find positive new things to do. Eventually your momentum will be focused on your new interests and positive life and suddenly Mormonism will become insignificant and something you (may) still do for 2 hours a week.

Become indifferent to Mormonism.

Find your new passions.

Live life and prosper! Nanoo Nanoo!

This is good. You have to help your spouse develop some identity outside the church. Or they won’t/can’t give up one inch of Mormon identity. It is all they are.

My husband and I had an advantage. He was active duty military for 20 years. We got to see different parts of the world, up close and personal. We interacted with people who were different. We got involved with party planning/club groups for the military. We saw a problem while he was working a joint assignment. (army, navy, marines, Air Force all working together) Many of the men had their identity tangled up with their military branch. For instance there was the marine who thought army folks were beneath him. Some of the men were so identified with their own brand of military that they couldn’t work jointly and they got transferred out of the prestigious joint assignment. It was like sitting Catholics down with Mormons and expecting them to work together to solve poverty. They worried about which branch of service got credit, they gave preference to people from their own branch, as if the branch was the whole tree. So, he saw how getting your personal identity too tangled up in *one* part of who you are is detrimental to your whole. The guys too tangled up in their personal branch saw themselves as Army, but tended to forget they were also American, so they saw other Americans as “other” rather than us, or U.S. They functioned great with other marines, but could not function outside of that niche. (weird that my husband never developed this strong military identity, he doesn’t go around with a baseball cap that says USAF, or have the AF flag emblazoned on the side of a navyblue ATV side by side——like a retired army friend has “army” on his cap and ATV looks just like an old army Jeep.

Now, with LDS women, especially SAHMs, they have little opportunity to form any identity except Mom/wife/church. And since even Mom and Wife are built into their Mormon identity, they really have nothing else. So, praise any talents. Encourage her working or volunteering outside the home. Find a hobby you both enjoy. Travel. Find a social group outside of church.

And most important, stop identifying yourself as against the church in any form, NOM, post Mo, former Mo. Or, isolate that identity to an hour a day on NOM, and find yourself an identity outside of Mormonism.

[slavereeno]

Sorry to hear this, and yeah it sucks. That is how the church operates, and why they will continue to succeed. Red Ryder's advice is good. I am struggling myself to become indifferent, especially when everybody and everything in my life pulls me right back in.

[wtfluff]

She responded that her identity is the church, and that without the church she would not be the person she is... for better or worse, the church is what made her.

It is pretty amazing the way a high-demand organization* can literally remove any individual identity from a person and completely replace that with "the organization." At least for me, I was born into it, and taught it my entire existence, so I absolutely believed it. I parroted the "I don't know where I'd be without the church" cliché right along with everyone else, and I believed it. It's extremely difficult and scary to separate yourself from that kind of programmed thinking.

One thing I like to say to someone who repeats the cliché is: "I think you need to give yourself more credit." and say nothing else.



* See: Cult.

[jfro18]

One thing I like to say to someone who repeats the cliché is: "I think you need to give yourself more credit." and say nothing else.

I think I've said that before or some variation of it -- yesterday was just trying to explain that I view her only as herself as an individual so when I have criticized policies of the church it's not an attack on her (or any members), but on the institution itself.

And this post wasn't meant to be about us as a couple as much as how the church is so good at leveraging emotions and fear to keep us thinking everything good is from them and everything bad is because we didn't do enough.

[lostinmiddlemormonism]

What she has said is true...at least somewhat. The church did help to shape who she is. It gave her values, beliefs, standards, goals, and role models with which she identifies. She believes that they have helped her to become the (good) person that she is. They have.

What she also needs to see is how much more than that she is. Her parents helped her to be the person that she is. They likewise gave her values, standards, goals and all the rest. They helped mold her into the (good) person that she is. But she is not her parents.

Similarly, she is who she is because of the school she attended, the musical instrument or sport that she played, the countries that she has visited, the degree she completed, the clubs she joined, and every other aspect of life that she has participated in. She is not those things either. She is her. A unique entity in all of creation. With no other like her. No other that you love as much. In part, because of the church yes. Only a part. She is so much more.

Help her to see that, without having her feel like she has to through away the church part too.

-lost

[crossmyheart]

In college I pledged a sorority. But I didn't make the cut. I was too enmeshed in the church to be able to give myself to another organization. I remember feeling exactly like your wife- that I was Mormon first and foremost before any other identity.

This may just be my perception, but I have noticed that with the cut in VT/HT and 3rd hour of church, some people I know seem to be getting more involved in extra-curricular activities. The primary president from my ward- who is dyed in the wool TBM, recently posted pics of her family at a nature preserve- where they went after church on a SUNDAY in PANTS!

Maybe you can take advantage of the changes- and start some new traditions that can help your wife discover hidden parts of her identity.