Miracles - Why are they bugging me.

[slavereeno]

I have been inundated with miracle stories recently from family and friends. They shouldn't bother me, but they are. I guess, part of the reason they are buggin, is that they are being presented by family members who know I am out as a way to "prove" to me that the church is what it claims to be.

- Friend cured of incurable condition because of a blessing and faithful missionary service
- Family member finding uncanny connections between blessings and life events
- Patriarchal blessing promise 30 years overdue now happening after a "trial of faith" against all odds
- A Visionary-ish experience that leads the recipient to purpose and wealth.

Stuff like that. DW and I have been thrust into conversations about the reality of God's supernatural influence in people's lives. I don't believe in it (at least not much,) because it makes little sense to me that God would reward one person with wealth or health and let another starve to death or die of a disease or get tortured, raped and murdered, even if both examples of people are pious and believing. This would mean either God is indeed a respecter of persons, (he plays favorites), or he does a lot of crap that makes no sense. The counter argument is that its like a game of chess and just because a spectator doesn't understand why a chess master would sacrifice a piece it doesn't mean there is no end game strategy.

So I have been experience some anxiety about the evidence being presented, its meaning and the ensuing discussions.

[EternityIsNow]

The perception of miraculous events is universal. Best answer. These things happen to all people from time to time. Including secular people. Think of the idea of leading a "charmed life." Good and bad things happen to all people in all belief systems. Sometimes we can see patterns. Jung called that synchronicity. The universe can be hard to comprehend sometimes. We don't know it all.

[Reuben]

Next time, tell them about how God wanted to provide both me and DPRoberts comfort by arranging for us to meet in real life... because it turns out that he's married to my cousin! So many of these kinds of things happen among disaffected members that it can't possibly be coincidence. I know that God is behind this great latter-day deconstruction.

Or, if you don't want to go for the throat like that, report a JW miracle having to do with refusing a blood transfusion, a Catholic miracle that happened because someone prayed to the Virgin, and a charismatic evangelical miracle of healing. It'll work best if they happened to people you know.

Or... just learn a few of those stories, and keep them in your back pocket. When someone talks about a Mormon miracle, say, "Hey, that reminds me..."

[Mad Jax]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f93RCCbij4c

If only you believe like I believe, baby (If only you believe like I believe)
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles, baby (If only you believe in miracles)
So would I

[jfro18]

So my favorite recent miracle is that after I went down the rabbit hole of Mormon problems I started the website which was kickstarted with some of stuff combined with Hagoth's incredible annotated essays.

Anyway... so I was really bummed because it's been a difficult year with DW since she is retrenched and unwilling to even talk about any specifics.

So at some point last fall during what was a rough stretch with this I get an email from a person with some questions about doubts they were having. The guy was an EQ president and having issues after another member asked some questions about some problems.

But what was insane is that the name of this person was the exact name of our son (first AND last) and that this person lives about 10 minutes from me, and I'm in the midwest where Mormons are just not common or significant. I honestly thought I was being tricked by DW or her family because there is no chance someone with the same name living 10 minutes away would email me when I get like 1-2 emails a week total.

If I was a believer in an active God performing miracles, I would absolutely say that was God's way of telling me to burn this mother to the ground and that the website was the real deal. I met him for lunch and then met with him and his wife a few months later... it's been (I think) helpful for both of us to have someone locally that you can talk through things with and not feel crazy.

And to add to that... not only is he out but his wife just told her family she's out too. I don't think I was the cause in any way (he came across my stuff after reading the CES Letter), but I think meeting with them and talking about different issues certainly helped his wife who was hanging on trying to find a middle way.

So there's my miracle that you can feel free to share with any of you friends and family.

[Corsair]

- Friend cured of incurable condition because of a blessing and faithful missionary service
- Family member finding uncanny connections between blessings and life events
- Patriarchal blessing promise 30 years overdue now happening after a "trial of faith" against all odds
- A Visionary-ish experience that leads the recipient to purpose and wealth.

The logic of these stories is this:

1. Something amazing happened
2. It was related to LDS doctrine, practice, or culture
3. Obviously this means that everyone should just join the LDS church and be faithful

The logic sounds pretty flimsy and weak when reduced down like this. Mormons only like miracles when they support their preconceived ideas and doctrine. The concepts you list above are absolutely part of every faith and religion on the planet. If it were just the Mormons having these miracles then maybe we would have something interesting going on. But these ideas are in every single culture and community of humans out there. We are also notably not hearing about the unanswered prayers and coincidences that ruined someone's life.

But you will rarely encounter an LDS believer who will give more than a cursory acknowledgement of this. Telling them that this happens all over the world usually won't sway them since they will usually retreat to skepticism or believe that this is God gradually getting people ready to hear from LDS missionaries. Instead, simply use this information as a reassurance that God might have some plan for this world, but there's no use worrying that Russell Nelson's church is the crucial part of this plan.

I would simply treat these events as the permission for you to follow the inspiration that is works best for you. My in-laws are on a mission and my father is a temple worker. I honestly take joy in how they appear to be living their own best life without feeling compelled to make similar plans in my own life. None of these people are enjoying the kind of retirement plan that would interest me. I know people that want to play golf in retirement and I have no interest in that either. But I can be happy for them while maintaining my own plans for the future that are different from theirs.