It’s my voice, isn’t it?

[Anon70]

I mean it couldn’t possibly be sexism or patriarchy run amok!!

This had me and a couple hundred of my closest feminist Facebook friends in a rage today:

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/05 ... nt-womens/

[BriansThoughtMirror]

Oh, I bet it did! That was really regressive, wasn't it?

[Anon70]

Oh, I bet it did! That was really regressive, wasn't it?

Someone who claims to be her real life friend said that it was poor word choices in an unscripted meeting. But she also acknowledged it will haunt and follow her. ‍♀️

[wtfluff]

Dear Zeus, what an awful load of tripe...

[hmb]

Hahahaha. I'm not mad or offended. It's so stupid laughable. I'm sorry so many feel they are not good enough (been there...) to balance family with church calling, while being exhausted from yet another pregnancy. All you have to do is pray and prioritize, but don't give up any of your duties. What a load...I've smelled sweeter diaper changes than this garbage.

[alas]

Oh, I bet it did! That was really regressive, wasn't it?

Someone who claims to be her real life friend said that it was poor word choices in an unscripted meeting. But she also acknowledged it will haunt and follow her. ‍♀️

It was NOT just a poor choice of words. The thought behind her words was “it is your fault he isn’t listening to you so change yourself” not to stand up to the male jerk and tell him that you will not tolerate his dismissive behavior and demand to be respected in the calling he thinks God put you in, or released. Just think if all the women in the church started doing that. Sure the first few would be released, and they win. But after replacing the RSP, PP, and YWP all within his first two months as bishop, and then replacing them again within the next couple of months, people will start to wonder WRH is wrong with him.

How about instead of slamming her purse down on the kitchen counter at home, she slammed it down on the ward council table?

I had hoped that the church would have made progress since “Mothers who Know” but sadly, I think they are going backwards with the male leaders picking women who preach male supremacy and teach that of course if there is a problem between you and your leader, it HAS to be the woman’s fault because all males with a priesthood antenna are so close to infallible that mere women should never question his rightness but assume she is in the wrong. And act accordingly.

And the unhelpful platitude for single, childless, and LGBT sisters.....I don’t have words. It is also victim blaming because by saying “We sisters need to include everyone and reach out to each other to make everyone feel loved,” she is saying, “If you feel you don’t fit in, it is your fault because you are not reaching out and loving your sisters.”

How about the structure of RS makes every one of the sisters feel like something is the matter with them because they don’t fit in. No one can feel accepted by an organization supposedly FOR women that is run entirely by men. Think about the current RS. Men decide lesson topics. Men set the budget. Men OK the activities. Men write the lessons...well maybe there is one or two women on the committee to write the lessons but they were picked by men to be on the committee and see the first question in the bad article about how women should deal with dismissive men. Men lead the committee to write the lessons and men dominate the committee and Mormon men do not listen to women.

Seriously about RS making ALL women feel like they don’t fit in, I have felt like I don’t fit in, so I have talked to other women and they ALL express the same discomfort. And they all blame themselves for “being different” even the stay at home moms with 12 kids. I work, so I don’t fit in. I stay home so I don’t fit in. I don’t have kids so I don’t fit in. I am single. I am lesbian. I am black. I am Polynesian. I did not grow up here. I don’t have pioneer ancestors. I moved from Utah and the locals do not accept Utah Mormons. For SOME reason **All** the women feel they don’t fit in????? What the hell is wrong with this picture?

It isn’t the individual women that is the problem. Please look at what correlation did to RS to see why women feel they do not fit into an organization that is really a men’s club auxiliary for the wives of club members and is run by the men for the little womimz. That is why single women, childless women, whatever don’t fit in...cause they are real people not walking stereotypes. RS is designed for men’s idea of who women aught to be. None of us women are that because it is not real. It only exists in men’s heads.

I don’t think I will even go on to rant about the other ways they answered, except to tell the young mother to get released from her calling as church is the lowest priority.

[Lithium Sunset]

Oh my gosh.... I just don’t understand how intelligent people can spend their life trying to convince themselves that this is okay... I mean I know I tried... and was miserable.
I wish I could climb inside my aunt’s head to hear all her cog dis. Of course she gets worse (more closed minded) every passing year.

[jfro18]

I've seen some comments claiming this is being taken out of context, but the video clip is pretty disgusting.

That said it's nothing new and not surprising.

But this quote from RS President Bingham: "We women tend to be shrill or demanding or stubborn, thinking we have the best idea ever, and if they don’t see it our way, clearly there’s a problem here... When we ask that question... 'Is it I?' That's a really good place to start."

Oof.

[alas]

I've seen some comments claiming this is being taken out of context, but the video clip is pretty disgusting.

That said it's nothing new and not surprising.

But this quote from RS President Bingham: "We women tend to be shrill or demanding or stubborn, thinking we have the best idea ever, and if they don’t see it our way, clearly there’s a problem here... When we ask that question... 'Is it I?' That's a really good place to start."

Oof.

Taken out of context? First excuse was that she choose her words poorly. No, she blabbed out sexist misogynistic garbage. And there is zero appropriate “context” for that. No context is appropriate to make generalizations that bash women such as saying that “women tend to be shrill or demanding or stubborn”. The TRUTH is the opposite, that women tend to be soft spoken, subordinate, apologize for having human needs, and give in in a confrontation with men 70-80% more often than the man does. She has it jack ass backwards, it is MEN who tend to be “shrill (in a lower octave than women) demanding and stubborn. This has been studied by sociologists. But men gripe about women asking for anything because those men feel put upon by having to grant women equal access to the world.

There is absolutely no context in which it is appropriate to make women responsible to control men’s behavior, to blame them for men’s sexism, or tell them to “look inside” when they feel dismissed as worthless by the men in their lives.

This is the same as blaming the battered wive for causing her husband to beat her, or blaming a woman for being so attractive that men can’t resist raping her. There is no way her specific quotes can be put in a context where they are appropriate.

If she was quoted correctly, she is blaming women for men’s behavior.

Rather than making excuses, like “poor word choice”, or “taken out of context, she needs to make an apology and attempt to understand what was so horrible about her advice.

[jfro18]

There is absolutely no context in which it is appropriate to make women responsible to control men’s behavior, to blame them for men’s sexism, or tell them to “look inside” when they feel dismissed as worthless by the men in their lives.

This is the same as blaming the battered wive for causing her husband to beat her, or blaming a woman for being so attractive that men can’t resist raping her. There is no way her specific quotes can be put in a context where they are appropriate.

This is absolutely true and what happens after a lifetime of being told that you are subject to the will of men. What DW said when we talked about sexism in the church was not nearly as bad as this, but was in that same line of thought where the church's structure isn't sexist and that women shouldn't want more.

If she was quoted correctly, she is blaming women for men’s behavior.

Rather than making excuses, like “poor word choice”, or “taken out of context, she needs to make an apology and attempt to understand what was so horrible about her advice.

I highly doubt she will be making any apologies - the 'brethren' love this kind of message going out to women who don't appreciate being unappreciated in life.

[Thoughtful]

Oh, I bet it did! That was really regressive, wasn't it?

Someone who claims to be her real life friend said that it was poor word choices in an unscripted meeting. But she also acknowledged it will haunt and follow her. ‍♀️

And her daughter said it was carefully planned and agonised over how to word it.

[Anon70]

How about the structure of RS makes every one of the sisters feel like something is the matter with them because they don’t fit in. No one can feel accepted by an organization supposedly FOR women that is run entirely by men. Think about the current RS. Men decide lesson topics. Men set the budget. Men OK the activities. Men write the lessons...well maybe there is one or two women on the committee to write the lessons but they were picked by men to be on the committee and see the first question in the bad article about how women should deal with dismissive men. Men lead the committee to write the lessons and men dominate the committee and Mormon men do not listen to women.

Seriously about RS making ALL women feel like they don’t fit in, I have felt like I don’t fit in, so I have talked to other women and they ALL express the same discomfort. And they all blame themselves for “being different” even the stay at home moms with 12 kids. I work, so I don’t fit in. I stay home so I don’t fit in. I don’t have kids so I don’t fit in. I am single. I am lesbian. I am black. I am Polynesian. I did not grow up here. I don’t have pioneer ancestors. I moved from Utah and the locals do not accept Utah Mormons. For SOME reason **All** the women feel they don’t fit in????? What the hell is wrong with this picture?

Alas-I have felt this and heard this from others but how you are articulating this is really powerful.

And her daughter said it was carefully planned and agonised over how to word it.

Yikes. Well that settles it. That WAS the message she was trying to get across. No thanks.

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

There is a “natural tension between the ideals of the gospel and the realities of life,” said Jones

Well that's a true understatement right there.

[Not Buying It]

Women will always have this problem in the Church, it is unavoidable. Men have the priesthood, the priesthood can never be wrong, so when women are offended by men, women are the problem. This kind of thing is simply the natural result of the Church’s institutionalized misogyny.

Thanks heavens my daughters see it for what it is. Women of NOM, I formally apologize that for so long I supported an organization that treats you like that. I ought to have seen how wrong it is sooner.

[MoPag]

So when I first saw this Sister to Sister even advertised on FB I was like: "great I will drink some pink moscato and do a live thread on NOM."

Then I saw the time on the Q&A was at 9 am. And I would be at work. And I can't drink at work.

I didn't catch the whole thing. I might still do a thread on it too. But I did catch this part and it really triggered me. I don't think she realizes the damage she is doing. Years ago, I was a TBM in an abusive marriage trying desperately to get help from a dismissive bishop. I guarantee you there are TBM women in similar circumstances who heard her message. My heart hurts for them.

There is absolutely no context in which it is appropriate to make women responsible to control men’s behavior, to blame them for men’s sexism, or tell them to “look inside” when they feel dismissed as worthless by the men in their lives.

Alas, you are brilliant! I'm going to embroider this on a pillow! And then I'm going to make a bunch more and hand them out at the next Time Out for Women event!

Women of NOM, I formally apologize that for so long I supported an organization that treats you like that. I ought to have seen how wrong it is sooner.

Thanks NBI! ((hugs))

[Mormorrisey]

Women will always have this problem in the Church, it is unavoidable. Men have the priesthood, the priesthood can never be wrong, so when women are offended by men, women are the problem. This kind of thing is simply the natural result of the Church’s institutionalized misogyny.

Thanks heavens my daughters see it for what it is. Women of NOM, I formally apologize that for so long I supported an organization that treats you like that. I ought to have seen how wrong it is sooner.

Amen, brother. Also glad my kids can see through this. If that's the only thing my apostasy has done for the women in my family, it was worth it.

And you hit the nail on the head, NBI - the priesthood can never be wrong. I sat through an entire meeting recently with a visiting Seventy with my head held down to hide the violent eye rolling because of this. His mantra? Jesus gives his ideas to RMN, he gives it to the apostles, who gives it to the Seventies, who gives it to the SP, to the Bishop, down the line. It was all I could do to add, but what happens if there's a rapey MP? Or a pimp bishop? Or any number of things that puts a wrench in the system that I read about on reddit? Or as Mopag put it, just dismissing the victims of abuse? Or even, God help us all, if RMN gets it wrong in the first place, like we saw with his exclusion policy flip-flop?

It's the system. It's broken, and it's broken for everybody, but particularly for women. You have no voice to fix it in this system, because the priesthood can never be wrong. And women don't have it. So YOU'RE the problem. What a horrible, horrible thing for the president of an auxiliary to say. I might have tried to do things differently when I was in charge, but it was a bandaid, and I still supported that misogynist system. I'm so sorry.

[Wonderment]

Thanks heavens my daughters see it for what it is. Women of NOM, I formally apologize that for so long I supported an organization that treats you like that. I ought to have seen how wrong it is sooner.

Thank you, Thank you !! On behalf of NOM women, your kind words are much appreciated. - Wndr.