Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

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AllieOop
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by AllieOop » Mon May 06, 2019 11:28 am

Linked wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 10:12 am

I wonder if the wedding dresses will become less garment approved as well. Wedding first, endowments and sealing later that week. The uber TBMs wouldn't do that, but the less uber ones may.
You know, you're probably right. I'll bet many won't even wear their wedding gown for the sealing part but will just wear what will be their temple dress (it's covered anyway, so why not?).

That could be interesting. Wedding gowns that don't have to be garment worthy :)
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crossmyheart
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by crossmyheart » Mon May 06, 2019 11:42 am

Not Buying It wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 10:32 am
If you'll forgive the link to Reddit, someone there suggests this was a way of diverting press from the Vice News story, and I think there is something to that:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... teresting/
Brilliant, really.

Instead of unloading all of the changes at conference, trickle them out a little at a time to keep people hooked and in awe of the wondrous revelation. And a side bonus of being able to put up a smoke shield against any bad press.

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glass shelf
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by glass shelf » Mon May 06, 2019 1:00 pm

2bizE wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 11:05 am
Meilingkie wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 10:05 am
Finally!
Now time to start pushing for the USA to follow the world by going metric :mrgreen:
I agree. I work in healthcare and everything is metric, but few other areas in the US are. It is the church that has been holding back on the entire USA moving to the metric system /s
I'm all in if someone can figure out how to bring metric. I've been wishing that would happen since childhood.

"Yes, honey, there are 3 teaspoons in a tablespoon and 16 tablespoons in a cup." I mean, why would we ever want to go metric when standard makes so much sense?!?

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alas
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by alas » Mon May 06, 2019 3:25 pm

This is good news, and I apologize on behalf of this unapologizing church to those of you who really deserve an apology for the pain this unnecessary policy caused in the past.

I still feel bad for excluding my FIL from our wedding, my own father, nope, but I really liked my FiL and have always felt bad that he was excluded.

Meilingkie wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 10:05 am
Finally!
Now time to start pushing for the USA to follow the world by going metric :mrgreen:
We are. It is starting with the medical doctors, who are now doing everything metric. At least mine is. My weight in stones.....I don’t have a clue what that means. No, don’t bother to translate. So I don’t feel embarrassed/guilty about my weight because the number is meaningless after my whole life having it in pounds. Now if they try making my recipe books in metric like the miserable things I bought while we lived in Germany... I will revolt. I don’t mind clicks, (which was what we military Americans stationed in Germany called kilometers, but I am not sure if the locals used that term) I got used to miles per K, and my Mercedes traveled so nice at 180 clicks on the autobahn. I actually like C instead of F, and got used to that also while we lived in Germany. I still have to use C on a regular basis with my pen pal in Australia.

Enjoy tulip season. I miss Europe. You live in such a beautiful country. We stayed with a lady at her bed and breakfast outside of Amsterdam. Loved it. ....except for my 4 year old falling into the North Sea.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by Red Ryder » Mon May 06, 2019 3:33 pm

Every family will now have a civil wedding first for one very simple reason:

Underage non-endowed siblings/family can attend!

That's the only reason/explanation that needs to be spoken!

So simple. Love it!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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2bizE
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by 2bizE » Mon May 06, 2019 7:19 pm

I’m excited for how Mormons will figure out how to get married, get sealed and not have family have to wait in the temple waiting area. There will be some creativity.
~2bizE

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wtfluff
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by wtfluff » Mon May 06, 2019 7:55 pm

Noticed that there is an "official" first presidency letter for this.

Some "fun" excerpts:
First Presidency wrote:Where a licensed marriage is not permitted in the temple, or when a temple marriage would cause parents or immediate family members to feel excluded, a civil ceremony followed by a temple sealing is authorized.
Funny how those millions, if not billions of family members didn't matter before May 6th 2019.

First Presidency wrote:We anticipate that this change will provide more opportunities for families to come together in love and unity during this special time of marriage and sealing of a man and a woman.
Again: "families coming together in love and unity" didn't matter before May 6th 2019.

And what about that special time of marriage and sealing of a man and a woman (dead,) and a woman(divorced,) and a woman, and... ???
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trophywife26.2
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by trophywife26.2 » Mon May 06, 2019 8:02 pm

I really want to be happy about this, but the space I'm in is just mad. Mad about who I was 12 years ago when I: unapologetic and self righteous, refused to do a ring ceremony for my jackmo parents so I wouldn't take away from the sacredness of the sealing. I have apologized now, but no apology will ever take away what the church and I did to my parents that day. I am happy that less people will experience what I/my parents did, but I can't pretend that happiness is all I feel.
Even if it's something disappointing, it's still better to know the truth. Because people can deal with disappointment. And once they've done that, they can feel that they have really grown. And that can be such a good feeling. -Fred Rogers

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moksha
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by moksha » Mon May 06, 2019 9:10 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 9:28 am
I'm so glad to hear that the church is finally starting to receive revelation from us apostates!
The further light and knowledge accorded to said apostates has now been allowed to enter the LDS world. :idea:
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Reuben
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by Reuben » Tue May 07, 2019 12:14 am

This is a new kind of thing:
Where a licensed marriage is not permitted in the temple, or when a temple marriage would cause parents or immediate family members to feel excluded [...]
It looks like, in their zeal to narrow the circumstances under which marriage outside the temple is allowed, the Q15 has implicitly acknowledged that the previous policy caused pain. Either that, or minimizing that pain is really one of the reasons for the policy change (whether for self-serving reasons or not).

There's a spectrum between "gosh golly darn we have further light and knowledge from the Lord and isn't it all so happy and gay" and "we're truly sorry for the harm that we've caused." On one end, nobody feels like they have the space to talk about what's hurt them. On the other, they have all the space in the world. Everywhere in between, there's at least some space to talk.

Some in-between spots on the spectrum:

Implicit acknowledgement of pain (e.g. this announcement)

Explicit acknowledgement of pain

Implicit acknowledgement of harm

Explicit acknowledgement of harm

Implicitly taking responsibility for harm

And so because they have some space to talk, people are talking. The thread about this policy change on r/latterdaysaints, which generally has a faithful tone, has more people talking about the pain the previous policy put them through than the thread on r/mormon, which is like r/exmormon-lite.

I wonder how having some space to talk will work out in meatspace.
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jfro18
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by jfro18 » Tue May 07, 2019 5:47 am

There's actually a story about this on our local NBC's news site (Chicago) which is pretty surprising.

I guess the church really did find a way to push that Vice story out for at least the time being.

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2bizE
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by 2bizE » Tue May 07, 2019 7:23 am

glass shelf wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 8:10 am
Once again, they make no apologies for all of the people that their previous requirements hurt. I'm sorry for everyone who had to exclude loved ones or who has been excluded.
Do you think the church is reluctant to offer apologies because Oaks is still around and the statement he made a few years back? Do you think after he is gone this will change?
~2bizE

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Just This Guy
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by Just This Guy » Tue May 07, 2019 9:54 am

Not Buying It wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 10:41 am
For those who haven't seen it, this change is on Bill Reel's list (see https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... elson_fix/), apparently they are ready to whip one of these babies out any time they are in danger of a major negative story in the press:
BillReel
12 points ·
1 hour ago

FYI as a reminder (asterisk next to means it is already happened or showing significant signs)

Changes allegedly being discussed at present inside the Church Office Building...
That Vice News Tonight Story must have really hit hard if they are willing to give up their hold over marriages just so they can knock it off the top of the search engines. Also also find it humorous that the Martinsburg WV PD issued a rebuttle to the Church's statement on the show correcting them of some of the facts their statement go wrong.

According to the people I know what were involved in this case, there are at least 3 more stores in the works on the same caliber as Vice News in the works for release in the near future.

How many scandels will it take to work their way though Bill's list?
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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moksha
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by moksha » Tue May 07, 2019 10:28 pm

Just This Guy wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:54 am
Also find it humorous that the Martinsburg WV PD issued a rebuttal to the Church's statement on the show correcting them of some of the facts their statement got wrong.
What did the Martinsburg police say?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Newme
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by Newme » Wed May 08, 2019 3:21 am

moksha wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 8:41 am
Hopefully, the non-TBMs in each family will no longer feel excluded. Have a wonderful civil marriage and then do a drive-thru at the nearest Temple.
Image

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Newme
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by Newme » Wed May 08, 2019 3:31 am

Mormorrisey wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 9:41 am
Corsair wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 8:18 am
I will grant that this is good news overall. It also reduces the need for me to maintain a temple recommend for my one child most likely to get married in the temple.
And this is exactly why it took so long to make the change.

They know that people, particularly millennials, are not bowing the knee anymore, and they are reluctantly giving up their control mechanisms one at a time in an attempt to stop the bleeding. I think it's a day late and a dollar short, like the temple changes, but I too grant this is a good change.

You know who I feel bad for? Recently a new convert I know proposed to his girlfriend of several years after his one-year wait period, and low and behold, today there is no wait period. That poor dude.
Yeah, it’s a wake-up call to many of us (maybe even some TBMs) how unfair that policy was - how it broke up families and hurt people. I feel bad for my dad, especially, who was made to wait outside temples on many occasions.

I’m glad it’s changed for another reason which I think will strengthen marriages...
More couples will write their own vows, making marriage more of a commitment to each other than to the church. And maybe Utah’s and lds divorce rate will drop. Who knows, but I want to believe that personal stated marital commitment would have more pull than a generic institutional one.

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Just This Guy
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by Just This Guy » Wed May 08, 2019 4:31 am

moksha wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 10:28 pm
Just This Guy wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:54 am
Also find it humorous that the Martinsburg WV PD issued a rebuttal to the Church's statement on the show correcting them of some of the facts their statement got wrong.
What did the Martinsburg police say?

The statement from LDS Inc says that they followed all applicable laws for reporting the abuse. The Police said that they had no record of anyone from the church or local leadership filing a report for child abuse. It was only reported by the women who was featured on the program and other parents.

WV law is that clergy are mandatory reporters for all suspected child abuse. The church tried to cover up the whole situation instead of reporting like they are required to.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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slk
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by slk » Wed May 08, 2019 6:46 am

Sorry, not sure if this has been asked...in the middle of a hiatus here of anything MORMON so haven't been on here lately. So a young couple doesn't have to be asked if they live by the Law of Chastity if there is no waiting period to be "sealed" in the temple? Basically they just have to answer all the other questions correctly?
Last edited by slk on Wed May 08, 2019 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Just This Guy
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by Just This Guy » Wed May 08, 2019 8:56 am

Yes they would still have to answer. The church defines chastity as sexual relationship with only legally married husband & wife. Even after you are married you still get asked that.

If you are not married yet and looking at getting a recommend for being sealed, you will be asked to make sure you are not sleeping with our fiancé. If you are married, you can't be sleeping with someone else. Above all, you can't be in a same sex relationship.

So, yeah, they will still be looking into the bedroom as much as they can.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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slk
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Re: Couples Married Civilly Now Authorized for Immediate Temple Marriage

Post by slk » Wed May 08, 2019 9:55 am

JTG, that's how I interpreted at first. But, essentially you could be sealed in the temple the day after your civil wedding even if having sexual relations with your partner kept you from having the one and only true ceremony in the temple. Am I interpreting this correctly? Yes, that makes sense that you'll be asked the same questions but a couple could have been sleeping together during their entire courtship and not be punished to wait a year.

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