Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
User avatar
Not Buying It
Posts: 903
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:29 pm

Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by Not Buying It » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:38 am

What, the Board has been up for hours now and still no thread on President Oak’s ugly bigoted comments a few days ago? I’d have expected this thread a lot more quickly.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 3110
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by Hagoth » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:42 am

I guess my hatedar was down too. Can you fill us in?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
Just This Guy
Posts: 810
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:30 pm
Location: Almost Heaven

Re: Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by Just This Guy » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:44 am

To be fair, when is he not going off on a hate fulled rant? I have not heard anything about it. Of course I'm well outside the MorCor.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

User avatar
MoPag
Posts: 1713
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:05 pm

Re: Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by MoPag » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:24 am

There is a really doctored (sans the homophobia) version here:
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/chu ... s?lang=eng

I think this might have all of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQlF4gUCL7M
But I'm at work and can't verify that right now.

I got this from FB:
Just this week, Elder Oaks said at BYU-Hawaii:

"Along with these challenges—and caused by them—we are confronted by a culture of evil and personal wickedness in the world. This includes:

� Dishonesty

� Pornography

� Perversions

� The diminishing of marriage and childbearing

� The increasing frequency and power of the culture and phenomenon of lesbian, gay, and transgender lifestyles and values

� Finally, you live in a culture that focuses on individual rights and desires rather than the responsibilities and cooperative efforts that have built our societies.

,,,,We cannot change the evil influences that inevitably press upon us and our families, but we can increase our power to deal with them. We must try to carve out our own islands of confidence and serenity. We must strengthen our barriers against the forces that besiege. In short, we should push back against the world. This idea only suggests that within the limits of our own resources of time and influence we should take a position, make it known, and attempt to persuade others of its merit, at least for us."
This guy is going to be running the show one day.

Under His Eye....
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

User avatar
wtfluff
Posts: 2073
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: Worshiping Gravity / Pulling Taffy

Re: Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by wtfluff » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:30 am

I've only seen meme's of his usual hate-speech against anyone who doesn't fit his straight, hetero, cis mold...

But there's also other harmful mental health stuff in it too.

If you're into that type of torture, go ahead and read the entire thing here:

https://devotional.byuh.edu/node/1788


Image
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Brilliant.

User avatar
MoPag
Posts: 1713
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:05 pm

Re: Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by MoPag » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:15 am

wtfluff wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:30 am
I've only seen meme's of his usual hate-speech against anyone who doesn't fit his straight, hetero, cis mold...

But there's also other harmful mental health stuff in it too.

If you're into that type of torture, go ahead and read the entire thing here:

https://devotional.byuh.edu/node/1788
Holy sh!t snacks! Is he legit shaming people who seek mental health services?
Last year about 10,000 of the students attending BYU-Hawaii, BYU-Provo, and BYU-Idaho sought mental health services. The most frequent concerns listed by these students were anxiety, depression, and relationship problems. This is not a one-year increase. The number of students seeking counseling services at these BYU institutions has increased by 70% over the past eight years.
I think he is. He says it like its bad thing that these kids are taking responsibility for their mental heath and getting help for their issues.

Then he blames smartphones. And longs for the "good old days." :roll:
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

User avatar
Not Buying It
Posts: 903
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:29 pm

Re: Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by Not Buying It » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:35 am

Whatever the uncertainties about the causes of anxiety, we who have the restored gospel of Jesus Christ understand that the most reliable prevention of anxiety in eternal terms is the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Now there's a guy who under no circumstances should be giving advice on mental health. How many members in the audience who struggle with diagnosible anxiety mental issues heard him say that and said to themselves "I don't need to seek treatment. I just need more of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ!". Nowhere in his talk does he acknowledge that in some cases seeking help is appropriate or necessary.

His attack on our LGBT brothers and sisters offends me greatly - his hypocrisy in the statement below disgusts me, he who in one breath condemns the abandonment of absolutes and in the other would reassure me that Joseph Smith's sexually predatory behavior is AOK (if he would deign to mention it at all, that is). He believes in absolute right and wrong only to the extent it doesn't apply to Joseph Smith and other Church leaders.
A major cause of these cultural deteriorations is the loss of belief in absolutes. A century ago, private and public morality—the sense of moderation and restraint necessary to the survival of a free society—were universally understood to rest on the reality of absolute right and wrong, decreed by God and ultimately enforced in a final judgment. Then, as this faith was undercut, public morality sagged into the safety net of ethics, a set of rules based on philosophy, pragmatism, or legalities, which rely on enforcement by individual self-interest or imperfect bureaucracies.[4]

Removed from their foundation of an absolute right and wrong, ethics and legalities have been unable to hold back the tide of immoral conduct that now threatens to engulf us. People have cast off conventional morality and old-fashioned restraints.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

User avatar
RubinHighlander
Posts: 1354
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:20 am
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain

Re: Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by RubinHighlander » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:19 pm

On the way to work this morning I heard a bit on NPR that went into the history as to how conservative Christians began to take over the republican party and came to support anti-abortion legislation where as before they deemed it a Catholic problem. In a nutshell, abortion was used as a polarizing issue to rally support to gain political power and create the "moral majority" in the Regan era. I see TSCC doing the same thing, using social issues to keep the tribe polarized with fear and bigotry.

http://religiondispatches.org/the-not-s ... -movement/

Gotta keep em feeling super special - us vs. the evil world.

TSCC rides the "moral majority" conservative Christian right wave by keeping it's non-profit status while it continues to build it's multi-billion dollar corporation off the backs of sincere believing members. That Mr. Oaks, is the most dishonest of dishonesty and you are one of the main heads of it!
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE

User avatar
2bizE
Posts: 1298
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:33 pm

Re: Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by 2bizE » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:23 pm

I’ll be honest... I don’t care much. Every time Oaks opens his mouth he spews homo bigotry. I’ve grown tired of him and the discussions around him. I wonder if putting his name on the rolls of the temple with a note for him to die anytime now would help.
~2bizE

User avatar
Just This Guy
Posts: 810
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:30 pm
Location: Almost Heaven

Re: Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by Just This Guy » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:57 pm

Can you request that someone be put on a temple curse role?
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

User avatar
Red Ryder
Posts: 2144
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:15 pm

RubinHighlander wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:19 pm
TSCC rides the "moral majority" conservative Christian right wave by keeping it's non-profit status while it continues to build it's multi-billion dollar corporation off the backs of sincere believing members. That Mr. Oaks, is the most dishonest of dishonesty and you are one of the main heads of it!
This sub-ecosystem isn’t new and is duplicated in various schemes across the world.

Go read “Confessions of an Economic Hitman” to see how billions of dollars in building contracts are awarded to governmental contractors based on false economic models created to lock down developing countries.

Look at the smartphone markets and you’ll quickly see products tied to the major companies that profit off redundancy and only offer incremental improvements in order to keep the customer engaged.

There are universal laws of nature at play here that are exploiting the fundamental flaws of human beings.

Oaks, Nelson, et al, are all sitting on top of a proven sub-ecosystem that keeps them engaged and enraged just enough to perpetuate the continual existence of the system.

Oaks is a smart guy. He will ride the anti-gay agenda for years to come in order to stay relevant to the old timer membership base then as soon as it dies down will switch to the next carrot to drive the existence of the church forward.

The best solution to Oaks and the church is to disengage and let them become an echo unto themselves. Can you imagine what would happen to the church if the enemies of the church all took their balls and walked off the court to go play something else?

One day in the future, Oaks will die and nobody will care what he said or what he did except for the exmormons who will continue to make memes of bigotry and point out the racism, homophobia, and rantings of a gerontocracy.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

User avatar
wtfluff
Posts: 2073
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: Worshiping Gravity / Pulling Taffy

Re: Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by wtfluff » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:13 pm

2bizE wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:23 pm
I wonder if putting his name on the rolls of the temple with a note for him to die anytime now would help.
It would probably help about as much as fake Masons chanting about my name to turn me into a good MORmON has worked. (Hint: It hasn't worked.)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Brilliant.

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 2442
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by moksha » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:50 pm

Every time Oaks speaks the Church loses some young members. The Millenials do not want to be associated with an organization that promotes hatred and intolerance. So why do it? The answer is that Oaks and some of the other Brethren are just wired that way.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

User avatar
hmb
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:43 am

Re: Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by hmb » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:37 am

MoPag wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:24 am
There is a really doctored (sans the homophobia) version here:
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/chu ... s?lang=eng

I think this might have all of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQlF4gUCL7M
But I'm at work and can't verify that right now.

I got this from FB:
Just this week, Elder Oaks said at BYU-Hawaii:

"Along with these challenges—and caused by them—we are confronted by a culture of evil and personal wickedness in the world. This includes:

� Dishonesty

� Pornography

� Perversions

� The diminishing of marriage and childbearing

� The increasing frequency and power of the culture and phenomenon of lesbian, gay, and transgender lifestyles and values

� Finally, you live in a culture that focuses on individual rights and desires rather than the responsibilities and cooperative efforts that have built our societies.

,,,,We cannot change the evil influences that inevitably press upon us and our families, but we can increase our power to deal with them. We must try to carve out our own islands of confidence and serenity. We must strengthen our barriers against the forces that besiege. In short, we should push back against the world. This idea only suggests that within the limits of our own resources of time and influence we should take a position, make it known, and attempt to persuade others of its merit, at least for us."
This guy is going to be running the show one day.

Under His Eye....
Hahahaha. He shall be called, Uncle Lydia.

User avatar
Mormorrisey
Posts: 631
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:54 pm

Re: Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by Mormorrisey » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:10 am

MoPag wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:15 am
wtfluff wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:30 am
I've only seen meme's of his usual hate-speech against anyone who doesn't fit his straight, hetero, cis mold...

But there's also other harmful mental health stuff in it too.

If you're into that type of torture, go ahead and read the entire thing here:

https://devotional.byuh.edu/node/1788
Holy sh!t snacks! Is he legit shaming people who seek mental health services?
Last year about 10,000 of the students attending BYU-Hawaii, BYU-Provo, and BYU-Idaho sought mental health services. The most frequent concerns listed by these students were anxiety, depression, and relationship problems. This is not a one-year increase. The number of students seeking counseling services at these BYU institutions has increased by 70% over the past eight years.
I think he is. He says it like its bad thing that these kids are taking responsibility for their mental heath and getting help for their issues.

Then he blames smartphones. And longs for the "good old days." :roll:
The anti-LBGTQ stuff is old hat for Oaks, I didn't blink an eye. And yes, I think the gay agenda keeps him awake at night, although the only gay agenda I see is that LBGTQ folks just want to live like me, only gayer. Doesn't seem to bother me, don't know why it bothers him.

But this nonsense, the "just live the gospel" crap approach to mental health, is pure BS. And I'm not a mental health professional, yet it bothers me to no end. I can look into my local congregation and just see who is suffering from poor mental health, and you don't think they are trying to live the gospel, and failing? Because of the toxic perfectionism of that same "gospel?" The same gospel that Jesus told is is not a burden, but light? These Pharisees are going to reap the whirlwind with brushing off the very real concerns of the young people. "Old man yells at sky," to be sure.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

User avatar
jfro18
Posts: 1057
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by jfro18 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:40 am

Oaks is awful.

The anti-LGBT obsession is nothing new, but it's really striking as the church continues to try and paint (publicly) a softer approach... and knowing that Oaks is a prophet-in-waiting and truly believes the rise of "wickedness" in the world is due to accepting LGBTs for who they are... awful.

But the anti-mental health stuff is madness. Please tell me one study that shows to any degree thta the priesthood healed people in a way that regular doctors didn't... I'll wait.

Then again the church's response to mental health is to send members to LDS Family Services, who takes all of your darkest feelings and thoughts and passes along the notes to your bishop and other church leaders which is beyond unethical.

User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:12 pm

Re: Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by nibbler » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:11 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:15 pm
Oaks is a smart guy. He will ride the anti-gay agenda for years to come in order to stay relevant to the old timer membership base then as soon as it dies down will switch to the next carrot to drive the existence of the church forward.
That's an interesting point. Maybe restated, people in church would need a new "them" to prop up as something to be against before they could transition off the anti-gay agenda. Something to keep the us vs. them fire stoked.

At this point I've come to expect Oaks to share anti-gay messages... as if everyone in the church forgot the church's position since the last time he gave a talk. :roll:

Holland also talked about this subject recently.

https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-a ... rity-50116
Broadly speaking, Zs are always “wired” to some sort of device. They have perhaps been exposed to “flagrant, destructive pornography” at early ages. They tend to support gay marriage and transgender rights as part of everyday life. “Because of this sociability, the thin line between friendship and condoning behavior begins to blur.”
Both of these men stand a good chance of running the show at some point in their lives. I hope they can learn to be more empathetic and loving. What they say can have a profound effect on some member's lives.
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

User avatar
Not Buying It
Posts: 903
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:29 pm

Re: Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by Not Buying It » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:56 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:15 pm
The best solution to Oaks and the church is to disengage and let them become an echo unto themselves. Can you imagine what would happen to the church if the enemies of the church all took their balls and walked off the court to go play something else?
Oh, I'm not sure that I agree that disengagement is the best strategy with the Church. Most of the pathetically small improvements President Nelson has made in the past couple of years were due to pressure from dissenters. The only reason they made the massive concession to allow parents to sit in on Bishop's interviews with their children is because of Sam Young. Increased visibility for female leaders (such as they are) in the Church would never have happened without Ordain Women. The recent change allowing a temple sealing immediately after a civil ceremony would never have happened without dissenters making noise about how unnecessarily harmful it was to families to make people wait a year for a sealing after a civil ceremony. Scaling Sunday meetings back from 3 hours to 2 hours didn't happen because President Nelson woke up in a good mood one morning - it was in response to complaints about how long and boring Sunday meetings are (they took a step towards fixing the long, but haven't touched the boring).

Left to its own devices, the Church keeps doing what it is doing. If we care at all about them, we owe it to our family members and friends who are still enmeshed in the Church to be the voices that make their lives easier and a little bit more sane. The rest of the world doesn't care enough about the Church to give it much trouble, it is up to the disaffected to provide the pressure that causes change (however insufficient and paltry that change may be).

And any LGBT member of the Church needs to hear other voices supporting them ever time President Oaks spews his vile, hateful words. We probably have no idea what it means to some members to feel support when an alleged prophet, seer, and revelator makes them feel worthless.

I say pushback against President Oaks and his ilk is more important than ever.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

User avatar
Corsair
Posts: 2541
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:58 am
Location: Phoenix

Re: Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by Corsair » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:05 am

nibbler wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:11 am
Both of these men stand a good chance of running the show at some point in their lives. I hope they can learn to be more empathetic and loving. What they say can have a profound effect on some member's lives.
Whether or not they are loving, I am also amused that they are so unpersuasive to anyone not already in agreement. Let's consider a thought experiment and posit that Oaks is fundamentally right about his concerns. Just accept his description of these generational problems as "fact" for a moment.

What is Oaks saying that will actually help persuade or convince Gen Z to act differently? He is not speaking to them directly in this acticle. Oaks is telling Seminary and Institute teachers to get Gen Z back onto the Covenant Path. But nothing he is saying with either rhetoric or dielectice would convince any teenager to change their mind. He leaves that up to CES employees to come up with that magic formula.

It's one thing to state the TRUTH as you know it. It's another thing entirely to convince your listeners to change their ways. Oaks is simply not very good at doing this. His general conference talks appeal to other elderly believers, but get easily dismissed with some basic responses by anyone who personally knows and loves an LGBT person. Oaks does not engage any feeback from his listeners as is the common practice of apostles, unfortunately. If Oaks is right, then expressing how things should change needs some practical arguments on why rather than just grousing about how Gen Z doesn't want to engage and believe doctrine like every other generation before the 21st century.

User avatar
blazerb
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:35 pm

Re: Still no thread on President Oak’s anti-LGBT bigotry?

Post by blazerb » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:15 am

MoPag wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:15 am
wtfluff wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:30 am
I've only seen meme's of his usual hate-speech against anyone who doesn't fit his straight, hetero, cis mold...

But there's also other harmful mental health stuff in it too.

If you're into that type of torture, go ahead and read the entire thing here:

https://devotional.byuh.edu/node/1788
Holy sh!t snacks! Is he legit shaming people who seek mental health services?
Last year about 10,000 of the students attending BYU-Hawaii, BYU-Provo, and BYU-Idaho sought mental health services. The most frequent concerns listed by these students were anxiety, depression, and relationship problems. This is not a one-year increase. The number of students seeking counseling services at these BYU institutions has increased by 70% over the past eight years.
I think he is. He says it like its bad thing that these kids are taking responsibility for their mental heath and getting help for their issues.

Then he blames smartphones. And longs for the "good old days." :roll:
His stuff on LGBT+ subjects is awful. This is also horrifying. I live with people who need mental health care. Society as a whole is bad enough, but now a prophet, seer, and revelator is telling people that mental health care is somehow optional. I know for a fact that the gospel does not cure mental health problems. It does not alleviate the symptoms. In many cases, the requirements of gospel living exacerbate the problems.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests