Life gets better

[thoughtpolice]

I haven't been here in a while, I intentionally quit posting a while back because podcasts, boards, reddit, and church in general was taking over my thought processes. It was unhealthy. But I had a conversation with Kishkumen last night after which the spirit has prompted me to post some words. I created a new account which hopefully affords DW some more privacy.

Life felt pretty surreal for a few years after my initial realization that the church would no longer be an integral part of my life. My wife was supportive, but not in agreement. What made things hard was the disagreement was not in opposition to the facts, it was in the implications that those facts had. As we are all well aware, this makes for some pretty hard communication. I had many conversations with my friends here at NOM, and they all told me it would get better. It didn't seem to be heading in that direction. It got kind of worse actually. Splitting up was an option referenced as we discussed our relationship going forward, but only as we both agreed it would never happen. There were too many things going for us otherwise that made religious differences not a breaking point. But what was heartbreaking was the knowledge that this difference in opinion was always going to be a wedge between us. Not a final wedge certainly, but a wedge that was large, ugly, and unacknowlegdable nevertheless. We didnt have a lot of common interests, and now the biggest one was gone.

I think the biggest issue we had was trust. Trust in a few ways was broken for both of us. She didn't trust me that I wouldn't try and drag her out of the church altogether. I expressed many times that I had no desire to affect her activity, or faith, but I did want her to be aware of the issues. My expression rang a little hollow by me constantly trying to engage her and discuss issues with her. My efforts had a couple of different effects. First, it enabled her to understand where I was coming from in my thoughts and disaffections, which was positive and something NOMs often advise (include your spouse and go slow). Two, it enabled her to understand where I was coming from in my thoughts and disaffections, which was negative because it scared her. Not sure what to advise except be a little less aggressive than I was...
Ultimately what happened was she lost trust that I was going to really leave her church activity and faith alone. Amplifying this lack of trust was the garments. Cue my trust issues:

At the core of a lot of my disagreements with the church is authority. I have always been focused on that as a TBM, I thought this was the greatest selling point the church had, authority of God on earth and we were the only ones who had it. As it became clear that was not the case, I came to really resent the authority the church exercises over people. What represents that better than the Garment? I felt like wearing them was a tacit acknowledgement that the church held authority over you. If one wants to have a reminder of commitment to God, why does that have to be a specific brand of underwear, manufactured and sold by a specific entity who mandates its use to remain in good standing? (especially underwear that is so offputting, in the arousal department if you know what I mean...) Why not buy a necklace, bracelet, get a tattoo, etc.? She had been telling me all along that she didn't think I was wrong to leave the church, but balked when I told her that seeing the garments reminded me of the wedge, and the power the church held over our shared life. Her telling me she didn't think I was wrong rang hollow in her continued use of something that spoke to exactly that. I expressed that not seeing them would go a long ways towards telling me that she did not prioritize what the church said over our experiences. She saw this as me interfering once again in her activity. I saw her refusal to not wear them as an acknowledgement that they were more important than me.

Eventually, she took a leap of faith on me. She quit wearing them. And I took the sage advice of one of my friends here on the board, "now shut the ____ up about the church!"

I am here to report that life is 1000% better. I think we are beginning to trust each other more, the time where we both unloaded our fears and trust issues really helped. Church has as much or as little involvement as I let it have in my life now. Sure, the wife goes every Sunday, but it is not something that I know she does out of desire and not guilt, or obligation, or a desire to drag me to the celestial kingdom. I actually mourned the change to a 2 hour block because that was 1 hour less kid-free time for me. I dont indulge my obsession in podcasts anymore. It just riles me up unnecessarily. I have been upfront with the ward members and am going to help one of them move furniture tonight. I feel like most of them distrust and are afraid of me. I dont care anymore. It does bug me that my 4 year old came home and told me what she learned in church: "I learned that if I dont get married in the temple I wont be able to be with my family when I die, so it is important for me to get married in the temple." That was like a sucker punch to the gut, but I am now up front with my kids, as issues come up, that I believe what they are being taught is wrong. They are quite enamored of the fact that Dad doesn't believe some of the stuff, and I know it will stick in their memories.

I could ramble on for a while, but the bottom line and what I want to communicate is that it does get better. Once we addressed the trust issues, and we both put our actions where our mouths were, life got good. It is sometimes difficult to acknowledge that life has gotten better, because we always seem to be looking at the next horizon, but life can get better.

[Red Ryder]

TLDR;
Life gets 10% better when you leave the church and 990% better when your spouse takes the church panties off!

Did I get that correct?

[RubinHighlander]

Awesome news TP! I hope you can keep building your trust with her outside TSCC. I'd recommend time out in nature with your DW; preferably on a Sunday once in a while, just to further strengthen the relationship with her. That foundation will hopefully be strong enough for her to leave the church behind someday as some catalyst may tap her mind into asking her own questions or just not seeing the value in it anymore. Whether it's fear, guilt or the tribalism, something there has enough gravity to keep her in orbit and she'll need to find her own escape velocity.

[Wonderment]

So glad to read this good news. Positive experiences like yours help to support others who are going through tough times and hoping for the light at the end of the tunnel. Unfortunately, the church is still indoctrinating 4 year olds by threatening them with never seeing their parents again.
But overall, thanks so much for this message.- Wndr.

[Evil_Bert]

Glad to see that it is working out for you. You seem familiar somehow!?!

[jfro18]

Thanks for posting this - I know there are a bunch of us that are still in the stressful and dangerous ups and downs of a mixed faith marriage, so seeing people start to find their stride is always encouraging.

And yes 100000% on the garments. I wish so much they would do away with them... my wife was very offended that I had commented that garments are the most unattractive clothes there are, but then again she kept all of that info from me as a convert so I don't feel so bad explaining why they were such a shock to the system.

DOWN WITH GARMENTS! DOWN WITH GARMENTS!

[thoughtpolice]

TLDR;
Life gets 10% better when you leave the church and 990% better when your spouse takes the church panties off!

Did I get that correct?

Yep, thats right on the money.

Thanks for posting this - I know there are a bunch of us that are still in the stressful and dangerous ups and downs of a mixed faith marriage, so seeing people start to find their stride is always encouraging.

Hang in there. Do what you can to be honest and introspective.

Glad to see that it is working out for you. You seem familiar somehow!?!

Lets do lunch again, that was fun.

[Mormorrisey]

Glad to hear this - it DOES get better, especially when the two parties are willing to work on it. That's the secret you've clearly found. Thanks for sharing your experiences!