Universal Model

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Linked
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Universal Model

Post by Linked » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:33 pm

My TBM sister just sent me a link to https://universalmodel.com. I looked it over and I don't even know what to say. Science was a very important part of my path out of belief in the church, and this guy just took it and twisted it and chewed it up and turned it inside out. What a mess. Not sure what to do with my sister. This could be the most diabolically opposite viewpoint from mine, I guess we won't discuss scientific stuff anymore...

From the home page:
For many decades, incorrect theories and misleading philosophies formed the foundation of modern science. False ideas taught as fact clouded minds and stifled the uncovering of Nature’s secrets for generations of scientists. Now, newly discovered scientific truths in the UM have revealed long-hidden natural law. We invite all to explore and experience the adventure of learning truth in the Universal Model.
It is not totally clear from the website, but the guy appears to be in Utah County. His new science fortunately has a place for the flood, for a different age of the earth, and who knows what else. Maybe he will have some discoveries on ancient american inhabitants. And his new knowledge is only $79! But it's not peer reviewed or anything, who would be qualified to peer review this, scientists?? I don't think so! They are lost in misleading philosophies, like test your ideas and objectively look at the results and update your model and test some more.

Don't worry TBMs, if you don't like what science tells you, we will co-opt the meaning of the word and give you more palatable science!
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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achilles
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Re: Universal Model

Post by achilles » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:29 pm

Ho. Ly. S#!&. This has to be some kind of joke, n'est-ce pas?

I have to feel a bit of pity for people who need this kind of crazy paradigm in order to maintain their belief systems in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence. I mean, this goes far beyond simply ignoring facts that make you uncomfortable. This is... this is one of the reasons why Americans are being overtaken in the sciences by foreigners. Scientific literacy be damned.

One of our favorite Mormon apologists, Rodney Meldrum, does a podcast interview with Cherilyn Eager, another Utah favorite.

https://universalmodel.com/news-earth-s ... d-meldrum/

Hey--I bet we could make a buttload of money scamming people by writing hokum curriculum like this. Who's in with me?
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”

― Carl Sagan

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Linked
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Re: Universal Model

Post by Linked » Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:10 pm

My sister sent this to me saying she thought I would like it because I am into science and stuff. So, I responded to my sister with:
I checked it out, and to be honest it looks extremely anti-science. They seem to be trying to be a wolf in sheeps clothing, in this case hiding dogmatic beliefs in a skeptical/sciency facade. It gives people who hold to the dogmas a place to point to when discoveries disprove something important to their worldview. I think this is wrong, I think people should understand and embrace scientific discoveries, not hide from them and obscure them. I don't mean to be unkind, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.
She sounded like she wasn't too unhappy about my response, so maybe we'll be ok.
achilles wrote:Ho. Ly. S#!&. This has to be some kind of joke, n'est-ce pas?

I have to feel a bit of pity for people who need this kind of crazy paradigm in order to maintain their belief systems in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence. I mean, this goes far beyond simply ignoring facts that make you uncomfortable. This is... this is one of the reasons why Americans are being overtaken in the sciences by foreigners. Scientific literacy be damned.
Right!? This is just insane! My sister does some moderately weird stuff like this, but then is totally normal most of the time. I just don't get it. Actually, I think I do, I think she is into Oak Norton, and he did a podcast with the founder of this new scientific model. With an ?open? mind this probably sounded like life changing stuff. I suppose I am just as crazy to her (but I'm right, of course (but for real I am right)).
achilles wrote:Hey--I bet we could make a buttload of money scamming people by writing hokum curriculum like this. Who's in with me?
If we're going to start scamming people lets go all the way, Joseph Smith/Brigham Young style. That's where the real money is.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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trophywife26.2
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Re: Universal Model

Post by trophywife26.2 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:27 pm

That's a pretty fancy website therefore the science must be legit. I think I've got some back tithing to pay. ;)
Even if it's something disappointing, it's still better to know the truth. Because people can deal with disappointment. And once they've done that, they can feel that they have really grown. And that can be such a good feeling. -Fred Rogers

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SunbeltRed
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Re: Universal Model

Post by SunbeltRed » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:33 am

Seems like that person and LRH (scientology) have a lot in common.

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alas
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Re: Universal Model

Post by alas » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:42 am

My mostly TBM husband and I talked this over, and neither one of us can comprehend this kind of thinking. It is like they take the Bible as not only true, but written by God himself, and word for word literal, rather than symbolic. When you consider that the people who wrote the Bible were trying to express a concept they didn't have words for, then maybe you shouldn't take it so literal. The people back then used symbols for things people could not comprehend like the amount of time that went into the creation of the earth. So, a day was symbolic of a period of time that could be eons. And because people didn't know about DNA, and mutations, they could not comprehend evolution, so the writers of the Bible just stated the bare fact that God did create the animals, from the simplest to the most complex and that there was some kind of order to it.

Perhaps if there was a true prophet today, he would write Genesis something like, "On the first time period, God created the Big Bang, thus creating the heavens and the earth. On the second time period, God set the stars including our sun in their current configuration, thus setting lights in the sky, and set the earth orbiting around the sun, with the moon orbiting around the earth. On the third time period, God cooled off the hot molten mess of earth, and put water on the earth, creating oceans and air around the earth, creating the heavens. Thus ended earth's Precambrian period. On the fourth time period, God got simple life started, and by causing small mutations in the genes, worked his way to slightly more complicated animals and plants, and thus made some simple creatures that swim in the ocean. On the fifth time period, God had some of those simple animals start reproducing on land and gave them chlorophyl and thus created the first plants, then later in the day worked his way to more complicated creatures and eventually created the dinosaurs who became the birds of the air, and simple Mammals. Thus ended Earth's Jurassic period. On the sixth time period, about midnight if you compare it to a twenty four hour period, God finally got around to mankind. On the seventh day, God rested while man started destroying the earth God created for him, but God was still resting and didn't knock mankind up the side of the head until mankind had melted the polar ice caps. Hopefully God wakes up from her rest soon and gives mankind a good chewing out about how fragile the balance of the Eco systems are that allow mankind to exist on this earth, otherwise God will be starting over with cockroaches to evolve an intelligent species that can survive with all the green house gasses we have released into the atmosphere.

Now, if I wasn't so lazy, I would have explained more about what God did during each hour of those day periods and how the earth was really hot back in the days when insects were huge and how God had the plants take oxygen out of the atmosphere and then die and get buried storing lots of extra oxygen as carbon dioxide, so that mankind would have marvelous fossil fuels to burn and muck the atmosphere, sort of like it was back when there was a greenhouse effect from lots more oxygen and how all that extra oxygen let insects grow huge. So, that is why God will be evolving huge cockroaches into an intelligent species after we have toasted ourselves off the face of the earth, all that extra....oh wait, now it is carbon dioxide, so maybe the bugs won't get any bigger.

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Hagoth
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Re: Universal Model

Post by Hagoth » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:47 am

This kind of thing truly baffles me. People who lose faith are often called intellectually lazy. That accusation is better applied to Bible literalists; it means they only have to read one book (and honestly, I doubt very many of them actually do even that). The Bible has become a convenient black box for people to hang their prejudices on. They assume it gives them clear instructions about things like abortion, homosexuality, family values, and whatever else they feel strongly about. I remember a survey that showed that most Americans don't believe in evolution, but of that majority something like 75% couldn't name the book in the Bible that talks about the creation.

But what I really don't understand is the people that go to such great lengths to invent bad science and peddle it on the unwary believer. These folks have to crawl over mountains of actual science to get to their Bible-friendly pseudoscience. Many of them know better. What I want to know about intelligent, educated people like Ken Ham and whoever is behind UM is do they really believe these are satisfying answers or does their ideology make them feel like they have some kind of moral validation to hock their trash science? Or are they just tempted by the realization that a Bible literalist and his money are soon parted?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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moksha
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Re: Universal Model

Post by moksha » Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:15 am

alas wrote: Thus ended earth's Precambrian period.
And it came to pass, the Dispensation of the Trilobites.

Image
They were a goodly and prosperous species
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

ulmite
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Re: Universal Model

Post by ulmite » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:27 am

alas wrote:Hopefully God wakes up from her rest soon and gives mankind a good chewing out about how fragile the balance of the Eco systems are that allow mankind to exist on this earth, otherwise God will be starting over with cockroaches to evolve an intelligent species that can survive with all the green house gasses we have released into the atmosphere.
I loved that!

I would not have responded as nicely : I feel like junk like that is an insult to science and the immense effort humanity has put into developing it. Kepler's third law disproves their new earth mass theory, which in turn proves that oh yeah rock is NOT water. We are safe from concrete buildings melting! :D

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AzCommando
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Location: within sight of Moroni the hornblower.

Re: Universal Model

Post by AzCommando » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:44 am

alas wrote:
Perhaps if there was a true prophet today, he would write Genesis something like, "On the first time period, God created the Big Bang, thus creating the heavens and the earth. On the second time period, God set the stars including our sun in their current configuration, thus setting lights in the sky, and set the earth orbiting around the sun, with the moon orbiting around the earth. On the third time period, God cooled off the hot molten mess of earth, and put water on the earth, creating oceans and air around the earth, creating the heavens. Thus ended earth's Precambrian period. On the fourth time period, God got simple life started, and by causing small mutations in the genes, worked his way to slightly more complicated animals and plants, and thus made some simple creatures that swim in the ocean. On the fifth time period, God had some of those simple animals start reproducing on land and gave them chlorophyl and thus created the first plants, then later in the day worked his way to more complicated creatures and eventually created the dinosaurs who became the birds of the air, and simple Mammals. Thus ended Earth's Jurassic period. On the sixth time period, about midnight if you compare it to a twenty four hour period, God finally got around to mankind. On the seventh day, God rested while man started destroying the earth God created for him, but God was still resting and didn't knock mankind up the side of the head until mankind had melted the polar ice caps. Hopefully God wakes up from her rest soon and gives mankind a good chewing out about how fragile the balance of the Eco systems are that allow mankind to exist on this earth, otherwise God will be starting over with cockroaches to evolve an intelligent species that can survive with all the green house gasses we have released into the atmosphere.

Beautiful, just beautiful. I like this. Good read for a Saturday morning. I am thinking that TSSC could consider in the next rewrite of their temple ceremony.

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