Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

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græy
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Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by græy » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:31 pm

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Red Ryder
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Re: Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:52 pm

How about a summary of the interview and what you liked about it? What makes this one a “wow”?

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græy
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Re: Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by græy » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:18 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:52 pm
How about a summary of the interview and what you liked about it? What makes this one a “wow”?

Drive by links are fine but some of us don’t actively listen to MS anymore.
Sorry. I typed that up on my phone, then got interrupted here at work and must have accidentally hit the submit button.

Donna has a son who came out as gay several years ago. In these episodes she shares her story of coming to grips with that after living the truest bluest mormoniest life possible within the Provo bubble. She shares the things that forced to stop and reconsider her views on the church and prophetic fallibility, but when she gets to April 2019, when the PoX was reversed, I don't think I've heard a more heart-wrenching experience on any single MS episode. JD doesn't speak for a very long time during that portion, largely because I don't think he could find any words himself.

It is just a very powerful, very personal, and very raw window into how PoX and its undoing has affected real people.

edit: fwiw I am pretty selective about what I listen to on MS. I've only listened to a small handful of episodes this past year or two. But I am very glad I caught this one.
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Red Ryder
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Re: Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:40 pm

græy wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:18 pm
edit: fwiw I am pretty selective about what I listen to on MS. I've only listened to a small handful of episodes this past year or two. But I am very glad I caught this one.
Thanks graey. I’ll give this one a listen based on your recommendation.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Re: Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by wtfluff » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:45 pm

Yep, I can't get through a MS Podcast very easily any more, but Donna's is definitely one of the most powerful, heart-wrenching stories yet.

And yes, John doesn't talk too much either. (Likely a bonus for some folks. :D )
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Re: Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by MerrieMiss » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:34 pm

I just finished this one today. I don't listen to mormon podcasts much anymore, but I was feeling down this weekend and just needed to know there were others out there. The last episode really captured some of the feelings I have about moving on. Generally speaking, it reminded me of what it was like several years ago when I was going through this - sometimes I forget how painful it was and how difficult and painful it is to rebuild identity.

Something I was interested in and that the podcast hasn't delivered yet is that Donna's husband is TBM. At the end of the podcast she and John talked about recording something more about that and I really hope that they do. It is just my opinion, but it's one of the weaknesses of MS in showcasing the mormon faith-crisis experience. There are a lot of us here in mixed faith marriages, but to my knowledge, all of the MS mixed-faith marriage interviews are done after both spouses are out of the church. I imagine it is difficult to get both spouses in a mixed-faith marriage on board for an interview.

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græy
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Re: Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by græy » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:52 pm

MerrieMiss wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:34 pm
I just finished this one today. I don't listen to mormon podcasts much anymore, but I was feeling down this weekend and just needed to know there were others out there. The last episode really captured some of the feelings I have about moving on. Generally speaking, it reminded me of what it was like several years ago when I was going through this - sometimes I forget how painful it was and how difficult and painful it is to rebuild identity.

Something I was interested in and that the podcast hasn't delivered yet is that Donna's husband is TBM. At the end of the podcast she and John talked about recording something more about that and I really hope that they do. It is just my opinion, but it's one of the weaknesses of MS in showcasing the mormon faith-crisis experience. There are a lot of us here in mixed faith marriages, but to my knowledge, all of the MS mixed-faith marriage interviews are done after both spouses are out of the church. I imagine it is difficult to get both spouses in a mixed-faith marriage on board for an interview.
Have you tried any of the marriage on a tightrope podcasts?
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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Re: Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by Ghost » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:52 pm

I also finished listening to this today. I don't listen to as many episodes as I used to, but I thought this was a good one.

One thing I noted is that Showalter wishes that she hadn't exposed one of her sisters to the issues that were troubling her. Although she doesn't blame herself and her sister doesn't blame her, she mentions how difficult things have become for her sister's family in the wake of their faith transition.

I've considered trying to have a discussion of issues of faith with someone in my family at times, but I've never done so because it's too difficult to predict the consequences and once it's done it can't be undone.

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Re: Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by Emower » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:14 pm

MerrieMiss wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:34 pm
I just finished this one today. I don't listen to mormon podcasts much anymore, but I was feeling down this weekend and just needed to know there were others out there. The last episode really captured some of the feelings I have about moving on. Generally speaking, it reminded me of what it was like several years ago when I was going through this - sometimes I forget how painful it was and how difficult and painful it is to rebuild identity.

Something I was interested in and that the podcast hasn't delivered yet is that Donna's husband is TBM. At the end of the podcast she and John talked about recording something more about that and I really hope that they do. It is just my opinion, but it's one of the weaknesses of MS in showcasing the mormon faith-crisis experience. There are a lot of us here in mixed faith marriages, but to my knowledge, all of the MS mixed-faith marriage interviews are done after both spouses are out of the church. I imagine it is difficult to get both spouses in a mixed-faith marriage on board for an interview.
I agree. For a long time, when things were really raw and we were having regular conversations, I communicated with John about the fact that there wasnt enough mixed faith podcasts on MS. He told me he would try and change, and I got DW to commit to going on and have a pretty honest convo. It never materialized and he continues to be what it is, for better or worse, who knows.

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Re: Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by jfro18 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:34 pm

I listened to chunks of this one -- I will say with Mormon Stories I tend to skip the first few hours when it's about their early lives... not because I don't care, but I just want to get to what caused people to leave and how it's impacted their lives/family/etc.

This was a crazy one for me especially when she got to talking about the Nov 15 revelation reversal... because like she said, once you realize it's not true it becomes even more insulting when they make these kinds of moves that just screw with people's lives for no reason.

I would definitely recommend this one although again I would probably skip around a bit just because I think it was 4 hours or so total so far?

I do wish John would have more mixed faith couples on because I think at first I listened to some of the mixed faith couples that both ended up leaving and it gave me a lot of false hope. :lol:

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Re: Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by Just This Guy » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:50 am

Any recommendations on what to skip if I just wanted a highlights version?
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Re: Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by Hagoth » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:12 am

I haven't listened yet but this teaser really got my attention:

"– This story includes the gripping account of what happened when they asked Mormon apostle Jeffrey R. Holland to heal their son of his gayness."

:shock:

Uninformed spoiler to self: the kid is still gay.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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Hagoth
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Re: Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by Hagoth » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:15 am

MerrieMiss wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:34 pm
Something I was interested in and that the podcast hasn't delivered yet is that Donna's husband is TBM.
Seems like it would be covered in these (but I haven't listened): 1148-1149: Michael and Donna Showalter: Choosing Love Over Orthodoxy

ETA: Oops, my mistake. Looks like Michael is the son, not the husband.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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2bizE
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Re: Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by 2bizE » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:56 am

I’ve watched/listened to a number of Mormon stories podcasts. Most are very good. Episodes 4 and 5 of Donna Showalter are the most impactful I have ever experienced. I felt like I was experiencing the pain and sorrow right along with her. It was like going to an IMAX movie for the first time. John Dehlin did an amazing job not saying much during the interview. He just let her go and speak she did.
~2bizE

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Red Ryder
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Re: Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:08 am

I started on episode 3 and am taken back by how naive and crazy she sounds to actually think Holland can heal someone from being gay.

Then I remembered we all were in this deep and Mormonism is just plain crazy!

Koo koo kachooooooo!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Re: Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by blazerb » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:10 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:08 am
I started on episode 3 and am taken back by how naive and crazy she sounds to actually think Holland can heal someone from being gay.

Then I remembered we all were in this deep and Mormonism is just plain crazy!

Koo koo kachooooooo!
Her vulnerability in sharing that was amazing. She had more faith than anyone I've ever known. Clearly faith doesn't get rewarded.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:37 am

blazerb wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:10 am
Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:08 am
I started on episode 3 and am taken back by how naive and crazy she sounds to actually think Holland can heal someone from being gay.

Then I remembered we all were in this deep and Mormonism is just plain crazy!

Koo koo kachooooooo!
Her vulnerability in sharing that was amazing. She had more faith than anyone I've ever known. Clearly faith doesn't get rewarded.
I agree. Holland should have met with her in person and at least talked with her explaining he couldn’t heal her son and offered an apostolic blessing of comfort instead.

I get why they don’t do this but can you imagine a church led by compassionate leaders who understood her pain? Who understand our pain?

The church leadership is lost. Not even an ounce of compassion in their souls.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Re: Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by wtfluff » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:10 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:08 am
I started on episode 3 and am taken back by how naive and crazy she sounds to actually think Holland can heal someone from being gay.

Then I remembered we all were in this deep and Mormonism is just plain crazy!

Koo koo kachooooooo!
Think about it though...

If MORmONism is in fact "True™" as it claims to be, then a dude like Holland, who "walks and talks" with Jesus every week in the Salt Lake Polygamy Palace should be able to heal people from their brokenness; and no matter how much the Q15 spew about loving gay people, the bottom line is that the Q15 think that gay people are broken. The logical conclusion is that according to Holland's job title, he should be able to"fix" a gay person.


And YES to the other replies in the thread. The FACT that the Q15 spend absolutely zero percent of their time healing and fixing people, and the fact that they show absolutely zero compassion for the followers of their "religion" speaks VOLUMES about the the truth claims of their "religion" and about the Q15 themselves. Volumes, and VOLUMES and volumes... (There's no way to truly express the VOLUME via text, or speech, or...)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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Red Ryder
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Re: Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:10 pm

Started episode 4.

“Why am I in the temple serving people who are dead when there are people hurting across the street?”

This lady is amazing! I’ve got to figure out how to get the wife to listen to this podcast. Her experience reading the CES letter might be a turn off for TBM spouses. Sigh...

Thanks graey for starting this thread!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Re: Mormon Stories - Donna Showalter

Post by jfro18 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:40 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:10 pm
This lady is amazing! I’ve got to figure out how to get the wife to listen to this podcast. Her experience reading the CES letter might be a turn off for TBM spouses. Sigh...
Yes - I would love for my wife to listen to this one, but she thinks John Dehlin is awful (even though she's never listened to him) and of course would be turned off by any mention of the CES Letter.

There are a number of MS episodes that I think are must listen to for anyone who is having questions... this is definitely up there.

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