Mass disclosure

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slavereeno
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Mass disclosure

Post by slavereeno » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:09 am

I will try to be brief. Sorry I haven't been posting much here. Its been a difficult few months.

My sister is getting married in a couple of weeks in the temple. About 1/3 of my family know I no longer believe. Some of those third feel like its dishonest or disrespectful to go to the temple in my current state of faith. Frankly, I personally would rather not be there either. DW and I have decided that it would be best if I do not go into the temple. So, the crap is just now starting to hit the fan and will continue to hit the fan for the next several weeks.

In addition my DS is coming home from his mission this week, and he is my only remaining child that I have not had some kind of conversation about this with.

DW has decided to tell her father. The anxiety about this is emotionally draining, we aren't sleeping much at night and both have been feeling literal, physical pain from the anxiety of the fallout.

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by Mormorrisey » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:41 am

I'm sorry you're going through this, it's not fun - I've been there, and while I'm past the stage you're in, it was sucky when I was there. Tough times, for sure. I wish you well as you navigate this with your family.

I have to say, though, to heck with the people who don't think you should be at the temple because of your new beliefs. If you don't feel you should be there, that's one thing, but who are these people to judge your ability to go? I'm up for renewal at some point this year, and here's how I'm going to deal with it. I'm going to say right at the get go, "Lookit, Bro. Bishopric dude, I've spent seven years trying to explain my new beliefs, nobody gets it, and it nearly cost me last time. So I'll I'm going to do is answer yea or nay, and that's it. No explanations, no discussions, just yes or no. Ok?" Now, my personality is going to pull this off, but it might not work for you. But as I say, screw those people and their judgements. Sis M. thinks I shouldn't have a recommend either, but as much as I love her, screw her too. My praxis is orthodox, even if my beliefs are not. If I can make a temple recommend work for me, what's wrong with these people?

Rant over, but that's how I would work it. Son coming home off a mission will be hard, too. I'm sure he's been pretty conditioned in many things, and you just need to bite your tongue a lot. I have one daughter like her mother, and she's the only one I'm careful in what I say - and even then, she still knows how I feel. Like you, I just love these people, and that will win the day, if you keep that love unconditional - it's quite the counterpoint to the conditional love you get back. Eventually they will notice and things will get better. That's my hope for your situation. Good luck.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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Palerider
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by Palerider » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:53 am

Stating the obvious...

The cost of coming out of the quasi-cult is pretty dear. Some benefits are immediate. Some may take years. I can only empathize with your situation and hope for the best result possible.

But it is well worth living a life of integrity. Your courage is commendable. This is not your fault.

Church leadership are the ones who should be ashamed of themselves, but they are incapable.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Red Ryder
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:50 am

Slave,

I’m no expert on this stuff but I’ve seen so many others go through this in similar emotional pain and anxiety that impacts their health. It’s people like us that were all in that suffer the most.

Why?

Because you have an unbelievable amount of integrity!

In order to save your mental health you need to shift your strategy here and hang your disbelief on your integrity rather than your disbelief as a form of weakness and emotional instability. No need to justify your disbelief with anyone.

How do you do this you ask?

Simple. You own your disaffection and you become 110% honest with everyone. Call your father in law and tell the man you’ve learned known truths about the origins of church history and that until you get answers you can no longer believe the church narrative because your integrity will not allow it.

When your son comes home, you pull that kid in right and give him the biggest hug he’s ever had in the last two years (besides his mother’s) and you welcome him home with wide open arms and respect his service and commitment. Then you tell him you’ve learned known truths about the origins of church history and that until you get answers you can no longer believe the church narrative because your integrity will not allow it.

You don’t need to get into the details and explain the 99 reasons the church is false.

If you’re having church problems they'll feel bad for you. Just remind them that the church has 99 problems but your integrity ain’t got none.

Remember, we aren’t the crazy ones here.
Reach out if you need someone to talk to.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Red Ryder
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:55 am

Mormorrisey wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:41 am
I have to say, though, to heck with the people who don't think you should be at the temple because of your new beliefs. If you don't feel you should be there, that's one thing, but who are these people to judge your ability to go? I'm up for renewal at some point this year, and here's how I'm going to deal with it. I'm going to say right at the get go, "Lookit, Bro. Bishopric dude, I've spent seven years trying to explain my new beliefs, nobody gets it, and it nearly cost me last time. So I'll I'm going to do is answer yea or nay, and that's it. No explanations, no discussions, just yes or no. Ok?" Now, my personality is going to pull this off, but it might not work for you. But as I say, screw those people and their judgements. Sis M. thinks I shouldn't have a recommend either, but as much as I love her, screw her too. My praxis is orthodox, even if my beliefs are not. If I can make a temple recommend work for me, what's wrong with these people?

Rant over....
Hell ya!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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crossmyheart
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by crossmyheart » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:14 pm

Been there- with being physically ill, constant upset stomach, and sleepless nights. I lived in constant fear once I started to come out to my family. My mental health was already failing because I could no longer support the narrative and play along at church, but then it was worsened by the family drama and fireworks that resulted from my disaffection.

I can say this with full belief- it will get better!

People eventually move on to a new shiny object that becomes the focus of their attention. For now- you are the shiny object. Hold your head high and show them how normal you are. Eventually you become boring to them because you aren't giving them any fodder to feed their need for gossip. They are inspecting you closely to look for cracks in the armor- to prove their narrative correct that no one is happy outside the gospel. The more normal you look and act, the less interested they will become.

Good luck and lets us know how it all shakes out.

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wtfluff
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by wtfluff » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:04 pm

Hey Slaver... Been there, done that.

In fact, I finally had my "real" Mass Disclosure with my own siblings and the aging, still living parental unit just within the last few weeks.

I knew it was coming eventually, but I was still shocked at the stress and anxiety it caused. Kind of weird the way that works - old, grown adults stressing over telling other, old grown adults that they don't believe in Santa any more. Well... I guess it "should" be similar to that Santa "revelation."

As far as the how and why of my disclosure, I went the wimpy route and used email. I did kind of use Red's advice and basically say: The church doesn't work for me, and I finally had to be honest with myself and walk away. (Integrity?) I also explained what an awful thing this is to do. The "Dark Night of the Soul" that most all of us have to go through before giving up on something most of us have focused on for our entire lives. I also shot down a few of the platitudes that mormon folk use to justify other people leaving, and of course let them all know that I am completely open to discuss any particulars.

I can also tell you that of all of the likely awful scenarios of what I "thought" might happen, NONE of them happened, and it's pretty much gone back to radio silence. That's the passive-aggressive style of my family, so I don't know why I expected much different. Your family is likely different, so your mileage may vary. There was some knee-jerk push-back and questions from the parental unit. I haven't gone into details answering any of those questions yet... I'm not sure when the it's the "best time" to break the parent's heart...

So after that long rant, I guess my advice is: Keep it simple, live your truth, and especially with your son, Love Wins. Hopefully your experience can be somewhat smooth like mine has, with not too much drama.


Edit: And like others have said: If you need to chat, reach out. PM, regular old posts, whatever works, we're here for the chatting...
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

We are secrets to each other

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slavereeno
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by slavereeno » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:35 pm

Mormorrisey wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:41 am
I have to say, though, to heck with the people who don't think you should be at the temple because of your new beliefs. If you don't feel you should be there, that's one thing, but who are these people to judge your ability to go? I'm up for renewal at some point this year, and here's how I'm going to deal with it. I'm going to say right at the get go, "Lookit, Bro. Bishopric dude, I've spent seven years trying to explain my new beliefs, nobody gets it, and it nearly cost me last time. So I'll I'm going to do is answer yea or nay, and that's it. No explanations, no discussions, just yes or no. Ok?" Now, my personality is going to pull this off, but it might not work for you. But as I say, screw those people and their judgements. Sis M. thinks I shouldn't have a recommend either, but as much as I love her, screw her too. My praxis is orthodox, even if my beliefs are not. If I can make a temple recommend work for me, what's wrong with these people?
Thanks M, I guess I am ready to make the jump myself, or I would be pushing back a lot harder on this.

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slavereeno
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by slavereeno » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:36 pm

Palerider wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:53 am
The cost of coming out of the quasi-cult is pretty dear. Some benefits are immediate. Some may take years. I can only empathize with your situation and hope for the best result possible.

But it is well worth living a life of integrity. Your courage is commendable. This is not your fault.

Church leadership are the ones who should be ashamed of themselves, but they are incapable.
Thanks Palerider, the support here is very helpful.

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slavereeno
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by slavereeno » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:41 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:50 am
When your son comes home, you pull that kid in right and give him the biggest hug he’s ever had in the last two years (besides his mother’s) and you welcome him home with wide open arms and respect his service and commitment. Then you tell him you’ve learned known truths about the origins of church history and that until you get answers you can no longer believe the church narrative because your integrity will not allow it.

You don’t need to get into the details and explain the 99 reasons the church is false.

If you’re having church problems they'll feel bad for you. Just remind them that the church has 99 problems but your integrity ain’t got none.

Remember, we aren’t the crazy ones here.
Reach out if you need someone to talk to.
Had the talk with FIL, it went OK. He is actually kind of a chill guy, but he wanted me to state outright some problems I had encountered. So, I started to rapid fire my 99 reasons, I got about 5 items in to the list when DW reached out and touched my arm and said "OK, that's enough." I can't ever seem to do this right.

Thanks RR, the lunch idea you put on another thread is a good idea, in a week or so after the dust settles a little on my end.

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slavereeno
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by slavereeno » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:07 pm

crossmyheart wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:14 pm
Been there- with being physically ill, constant upset stomach, and sleepless nights. I lived in constant fear once I started to come out to my family. My mental health was already failing because I could no longer support the narrative and play along at church, but then it was worsened by the family drama and fireworks that resulted from my disaffection.

I can say this with full belief- it will get better!

People eventually move on to a new shiny object that becomes the focus of their attention. For now- you are the shiny object. Hold your head high and show them how normal you are. Eventually you become boring to them because you aren't giving them any fodder to feed their need for gossip. They are inspecting you closely to look for cracks in the armor- to prove their narrative correct that no one is happy outside the gospel. The more normal you look and act, the less interested they will become.

Good luck and lets us know how it all shakes out.
Thanks this reassurance is good to hear.

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slavereeno
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by slavereeno » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:08 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:04 pm
So after that long rant, I guess my advice is: Keep it simple, live your truth, and especially with your son, Love Wins. Hopefully your experience can be somewhat smooth like mine has, with not too much drama.
Thanks Fluff, I do hope the dust settles sooner than later.

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jfro18
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by jfro18 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:29 pm

I'm sorry you're about to go through something that you can't possibly know how it will go, which of course generates so much anxiety and pain.

When I left I had my wife tell all of the in-laws so I really have no idea what was said and am still genuinely curious about it... but it left me pretty isolated when we visited because I could only imagine what they were thinking.

Sorry you have to go through it -- if you ever need to vent post here, PM me... we could set up one of those conference calls again someday too. It's such a weird feeling when you're other side and you can see it all really clearly but those still inside refuse to even peek.

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slavereeno
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by slavereeno » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:41 am

So yesterday was FIL and soon-to-be-married sister. Today a couple more siblings. The wedding will eventually be the thing that razes it all to the ground, since DW will go but I will be waiting outside. My parents seemed pleased that I wasn't going inside, weird.

DW wants me to have my official answer as to why I am outside prepared, and she has to prepare hers.

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græy
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by græy » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:56 am

Its good to hear from you again slavereeno. I was wondering what you'd been up to lately. I'm sorry to hear you're being forced to deal with everything at once this way.
slavereeno wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:41 am
DW wants me to have my official answer as to why I am outside prepared, and she has to prepare hers.
Temple events being the catalyst for coming clean to everyone is really a brutal way to go through it. There is so much judgement associated with temple attendance. To a TBM there is no reason you would ever choose to not go inside, it must be unworthiness.

On the other hand, this is your sister's day. I would recommend keeping your answer honest and as brief as possible. Something along the lines of "It was my choice to go inside or not, but it didn't feel right. I'm very happy for <sister> and just want to focus on her today."

I hope things are going smoothly between you and your DW. It sounds like she is being pretty supportive through all of this.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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slavereeno
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by slavereeno » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:23 am

græy wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:56 am
On the other hand, this is your sister's day. I would recommend keeping your answer honest and as brief as possible. Something along the lines of "It was my choice to go inside or not, but it didn't feel right. I'm very happy for <sister> and just want to focus on her today."
Thanks, I like your response a lot. I did want it to be her day, in fact its still three weeks away and that's why all the disclosures are happening now, so the focus can be on her and her new hubby.
græy wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:56 am
I hope things are going smoothly between you and your DW. It sounds like she is being pretty supportive through all of this.
Yes, DW really has been amazing lately, especially considering how much pain this is causing her.

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slavereeno
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by slavereeno » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:26 am

Only one disclosure left, Missionary DS. Everybody else in the family can find out through the grapevine. I am not out to the ward yet, but the cat's out of the bag to enough people it will eventually trickle in.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:37 am

Valid Excuses:

My recommend lapsed.
The temple is weird.
Somebody has to stay outside and watch for leprechauns!
I forgot my white booties?
My sex prevention suit is at the cleaners.
I’m standing guard by proxy for and behalf of Ted who is in the bathroom!
The temple makes me claustrophobic.
It’s standing room only so I’m standing outside.
Call me Brother Kaepernick?
I’m waiting outside in case my testimony drives by.
I left my temple suitcase in Maui.
I still have hard feelings towards my sister.
I have to work a 36 hour shift at the mental hospital.
I’ll be at the New Kids on the Block reunion tour concert.
I’m snorkeling in Mexico that day.
I don’t support opposite sex marriage.
My anal fissures are acting up and I have an appointment to see Dr. Newme to discuss.
I’ll be outside polishing Moroni’s trumpet.
I’m following the example of my personal Savior WTFluff who sat outside for his own child’s wedding.

I suggest you tell them something completely off the wall and let them think you’ve lost your marbles.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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MerrieMiss
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by MerrieMiss » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:54 am

I really feel for you. It’s hard to stay half-in half-out, but it’s also hard to feel like your hand is forced when these situations happen. I’m sorry, and I hope things are going okay for you guys. I can’t imagine the kind of conversation that happens with a child who is a returning missionary. In some ways though, I kind of envy you. Right now I’m in limbo land and it’s getting really old. While I’m not out to the whole family, in my experience wtfluff is right – these things are often worse in anticipation than they are in reality. Sending my best good vibes your way.

Also, isn’t it weird how some people are sooo happy/relieved you aren’t there because you aren’t “worthy?” Reminds me of how some people think not taking the sacrament is supposed to be beneficial for repentance when all it does it compound the shame. Of course, the church is in the business of shame, so it’s a pretty good strategy. Stay strong!

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Red Ryder
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:04 am

More excuses:

I’m a chronic masturbator and don’t want to defile the lords house.

I was there, you must have missed me in the sea of supporters.

I got stuck in the locker room talking to an old mission companion.

I shorted the stock market with my tithing money not anticipating trumps China tweet would send it up today and therefore didn’t pay my tithes and offerings.

I was busy raiding Area 51.

I have to wash my hair that day.

The temple? Oh, I went over to the Timple and waited for everyone to show up.

I’ll make the next one when sister’s husband marries wife #2.

I like Tacos!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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