Mass disclosure

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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jfro18
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by jfro18 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:56 pm

slavereeno wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:07 pm
Exactly. This, they go to DW to discuss because she is "safe" My mother did this early on waiting until I left then asking DW how slavereeno was doing. My wife told her she needed to ask me, and then I followed up with a phone call and had a frank conversation telling Mom to back of DW.

DW really isn't enjoying it. I loath the day the ward gets word. We will probably have to move.
Yep - and your wife will now become a project for the ward to keep her nice and strong in her testimony so that you can't bring her down.

When word got out here, DW got multiple visits with goodies and overly anxious women wanting to talk to her, and I was sent the missionaries which was just awesome because I had a few talks with them (I was super calm) where I detailed just how wrong their answers were on some issues politely... I felt really bad for them, and I did tell them upfront that I was happy to talk with them but that they'd have to listen to my responses to which they agreed.

Anyway - you're going to become a project now and your wife will be another project that the ward will try to keep from getting infected with your disbelief.

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Palerider
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by Palerider » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:00 pm

This whole thing reminds me of a meeting our Bishopric had where we were discussing a family who was having difficulties in our ward. Our ward high counselor was in attendance and when we said there were things we knew were happening but other things we weren't sure of with this family, the High Counselor said, "If you want to know what is going on with a family, just ask the kids. The kids will tell you what's happening."

I was dumbfounded and terribly dismayed that he would even suggest such a thing. It's so unethical. Not only does it put a child in a terribly awkward position of betraying family trust but it is tantamount to spying on the family.
I have regretted not telling him how morally wrong he was many times since.

But what I learned from this and my time in the Bishopric was that the church reinforces cowardice in a huge way by its culture.

The only people who have any business asking someone about their beliefs are their direct clergy or their very close family. And they ought to do it in an up front, straight forward way. None of this chicken$h!t skulking around.

If an individual has questions about another person's conduct or beliefs, they should either keep it to themselves or have the courage and decency to approach that individual themselves. Don't go creeping around like a gutless wonder trying to get information through the back door. And then if that individual wants to discuss it, fine. If they don't, then you should piss off and mind your own business.

The church really promotes cowardice by not equating unwanted and covert interference with being a sinful behavior.
The only exception would be in cases where the law is being broken by a non-family member, but even then you tell someone in authority. You don't confront the person directly.

I am SO glad I'm out of that mess.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Just This Guy
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by Just This Guy » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:57 am

I'm sorry I missed it. They were having a sale at TJ Maxx. How could I pass that up?
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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græy
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by græy » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:03 am

slavereeno wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:59 pm
I have to give credit to DW, she is doing her best to handle the situation and shut down the conversations as much as she can. This is certainly no more fun for her than for me.

But what kind of effect does this constant bombardment of people asking about me, as though I had committed the worst sin they can think of have on DWs view of her husband. I can't imagine its terribly flattering. Its always referred to as my "problem" or my "crisis", the entire vocabulary is demeaning.
This is what they mean when they say there is no dignified way to leave the church. Either you commit major sin and are vilified, or you commit no sin and just leave. Either way, you become the deceived elect, the fallen, and a danger to anyone who might otherwise have an in-depth conversation with you. This is also one of the many reasons why so many see the LDS church as a cult.

I'm sorry you and your family have to go through this. We're rooting for you!
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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Red Ryder
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:49 am

That’s why it’s important to quickly become indifferent to what everyone else thinks.

A thick skin. Like Nephi wandering in the sun dried wilderness looking for upstate New York thick leathery dried skin. Nothings going to penetrate that dermis.

The church literally follows a script here. You wake up one day from the ignorance bliss, question the origins of the church narrative, realize it’s all made up, and suddenly you're the most contagious dude in the ward other than the snotty nosed sunbeam who can’t sit still.

The Satan excuse is really the best one. We should all embrace the devil as the reason we stopped believing. Like one night I was reading my scriptures in first Nephi and immediately after Laban gets his head cut off, I hear a knock at my door. It’s a really scary dude that looks like Marilyn Manson and Hulk Hogan hooked up and had a homosexual same sex attraction fling and this hot mess of muscle and mascara was the offspring.

Just as I was questioning why Laban could get his head cut off with no blood on his coat, this hot mess of muscle and mascara knocked on my door, then slithered in as I opened it, and quickly mounted my back and began whispering in my ear.... it’s made up! ....it’s made up! Horny ‘ole Joe made it up so that your wife would be miserable thinking you worship me now!

Muscle and mascara continues to whisper in your ear, worship me, ha ha ha, worship me now! Take off the garment of the priesthood, stop paying tithing, go to Starbucks, then drink a Mike’s Hard Lemonade. Worship me to the ends of the earth..... or until you realize I’m made up too! My name is Satan, but my friends call me Stan! Bow down and worship my through endless pornographic viewing, wasted consumerism, and by God please watch the Kardashians and American Idol.

Yeah, I gave in to Stan and lost my testimony all because I was weak in my scripture reading and home teaching. Let this be a lesson to all you kids, read your scriptures, say your prayers, and pray that the Devil, yeah even muscled and mascara man himself won’t drag you down to the depths of hell!!!

It’s miserable down here. Bewahhhhbaaaaaa!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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slavereeno
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by slavereeno » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:30 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:56 pm
Anyway - you're going to become a project now and your wife will be another project that the ward will try to keep from getting infected with your disbelief.
That's going to be a nightmare. I think I may just continue to get a recommend and keep the ward leaders guessing...

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slavereeno
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by slavereeno » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:31 pm

Palerider wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:00 pm
The church really promotes cowardice by not equating unwanted and covert interference with being a sinful behavior.
The only exception would be in cases where the law is being broken by a non-family member, but even then you tell someone in authority. You don't confront the person directly.

I am SO glad I'm out of that mess.
This is true, I am trying to extricate myself, but "One does not simply leave the mormon church"

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slavereeno
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by slavereeno » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:33 pm

græy wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:03 am
This is what they mean when they say there is no dignified way to leave the church. Either you commit major sin and are vilified, or you commit no sin and just leave. Either way, you become the deceived elect, the fallen, and a danger to anyone who might otherwise have an in-depth conversation with you. This is also one of the many reasons why so many see the LDS church as a cult.

I'm sorry you and your family have to go through this. We're rooting for you!
Thanks græy, yep its no fun but I am hoping things get to a new normal for a while after the dust settles.

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slavereeno
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by slavereeno » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:34 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:49 am
Yeah, I gave in to Stan and lost my testimony all because I was weak in my scripture reading and home teaching. Let this be a lesson to all you kids, read your scriptures, say your prayers, and pray that the Devil, yeah even muscled and mascara man himself won’t drag you down to the depths of hell!!!

It’s miserable down here. Bewahhhhbaaaaaa!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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græy
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Location: Central TX

Re: Mass disclosure

Post by græy » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:54 pm

slavereeno wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:30 pm
jfro18 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:56 pm
Anyway - you're going to become a project now and your wife will be another project that the ward will try to keep from getting infected with your disbelief.
That's going to be a nightmare. I think I may just continue to get a recommend and keep the ward leaders guessing...
Haha! Don't play their game, make up your own rules and see if they ever figure it out. :lol:
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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Linked
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Mass disclosure

Post by Linked » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:41 pm

Hey Slavereeno, sorry I'm late to the post. Hang in there through all of this, it can be exhausting telling everyone. Hopefully there is little fallout and you can get back to life. How is your DS handling it?
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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slavereeno
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by slavereeno » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:01 pm

Linked wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:41 pm
Hey Slavereeno, sorry I'm late to the post. Hang in there through all of this, it can be exhausting telling everyone. Hopefully there is little fallout and you can get back to life. How is your DS handling it?
Thanks Linked, well he is working through the post mission emotions and this certainly hasn't made that easier. It wasn't great timing, but it got accelerated because of the upcoming wedding. Wish I could have given him some more time.

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StarbucksMom
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by StarbucksMom » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:49 am

Slavereeno, sorry for how stupid and culty Mormonism is and that they have your family fooled into thinking there's something wrong with you for not worshipping a child pedo, and leaders who taught that God hated blacks til 1978 and gays and women til 2019 (but doesn't condone women being used as sex toys for men anymore-progress!) And I'm sorry for how difficult this all is for you. I do think it's interesting that some of your family were more NOM than you thought, and I'd be willing to bet some of your siblings will look into history a bit more now and want out too.

It's just so absurd, a grown man with a successful career, dedicated to his family, good member of society, changes his religious views in 2019 and it's a problem??

I have gathered that you are in the same state as me, so pretty Mormon, but I do see some people leaving and wonder why you think you have to move? It's not like you were convicted of a crime (not trying to be funny) or cheated on your wife. It was hard for me when people started finding out I no longer believed, but I just held my head up and realized they were all duped and that wasn't my problem. You don't need to uproot or change your life. Just keep doing what you feel is right for you and let everyone else see you happy and well, still dedicated to your family, career, hobbies etc. They will have nothing to say except "Bro Slave doesn't believe in Mormonism." That will get old pretty quick.

Keewon
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Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:01 pm

Re: Mass disclosure

Post by Keewon » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:32 pm

So, I started to rapid fire my 99 reasons, I got about 5 items in to the list when DW reached out and touched my arm and said "OK, that's enough."
With the help of a kind and open-hearted TBM friend the explanation part has gotten much simpler for me. There is just one really big "item" on my list: JS taught all kinds of stuff, and much of it had to do with the physical world, about matters which would naturally be connected with physical evidence (archaeology, linguistics, physics etc). As the evidence accumulated, it became apparent that JS was wrong not just about some things, but about everything. There is not one thing that JS could realistically have gotten right only by being a prophet (e.g. Book of Abraham) that he actually got right. It's that simple.

I first realized back in the 90's, when I first heard about the native American DNA studies being conducted, that I already knew they wouldn't support BOM teachings. Like a big jigsaw puzzle, after so much of the picture becomes visible there is no real question about it suddenly flipping to a picture of something else. When I first heard about the DNA thing I felt like I had been punched in the gut. I had unconsciously been guarding my faith so carefully, for so long, and then this. I already knew too much. I could feel my shelf lurching dangerously.

So the ultimate answer, for me, is very simple: Science disproves Church's teachings.

If we weren't already so deeply committed to believing in JS there would be no question about his being a very talented, possibly genius, but very human non-prophet. If, for instance, he were some guy who lived in Tibet in the last century who translated documents in unknown languages (and got them wrong), taught about previous inhabitants (and got it all wrong), and so forth, he would be just one in an endless list of interesting con artists. People hold on because they want and need him to be a prophet. Hearing Church apologists endlessly cherry pick and obfuscate in order to keep believing in him only reinforces the fact that the best the Church's best and brightest can do is spin. That alone says something.

As to my own feelings, I have grieved for my loss of faith. I have known the "dark night of the soul". I would be back to church in a heart beat if I could believe in it. I would love to believe in God again. (Science doesn't just stop at JS, you know.) But I have to believe that what I believe is true. It's not a matter of integrity, but of psychological necessity. Once you see the problems you can't unsee them.

Now, how to say that in one sentence is another thing. :)

Good to be back BTW. Bless you all. :)

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slavereeno
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by slavereeno » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:35 pm

StarbucksMom wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:49 am
I have gathered that you are in the same state as me, so pretty Mormon, but I do see some people leaving and wonder why you think you have to move?
Thanks StarbucksMom, DW's entire social network is the church. Friends, neighbors, the kids carpool our entire support system is wrapped up in the church, she feels like it would be social suicide to disavow the church. So she would rather go into a new area where we start out as a couple where the hubby is not involved from the get go. There may be less social stigma them me leaving.

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slavereeno
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Re: Mass disclosure

Post by slavereeno » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:37 pm

Keewon wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:32 pm
Now, how to say that in one sentence is another thing.
Yeah, this. I am convinced, but that seems to be quite meaningless to my family.

Thanks Keewon.

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