"We don't say that person is gay..." - I'm furious about labeling

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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Ho Lee Turtle
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Re: "We don't say that person is gay..." - I'm furious about labeling

Post by Ho Lee Turtle » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:59 pm

Just to help Hathaway and Oaks out here, here are a few other labels that we probably shouldn’t use.

1. We don’t say someone is a “full tithe payer”, we say that person who is financing the ETCOJCOLDS
2. We don’t say someone is a “partial tithe payer”, we say that person still has to compromise their dollars for social pressures
3. We don’t say someone is a “non tithe payer”, we say that person who spends their money prudently now
4. We don’t say someone is a “faithful member”, we say that person who still lacks knowledge of the truth
5. We don’t say someone is a “doubter”, we say that person who is discovering the truth is out there
6. We don’t say someone is an “apostate”, we say that person who no longer struggles with fictional narratives

Yeah, I’m tired of the labels the church puts on people as well.

Wonderment
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Re: "We don't say that person is gay..." - I'm furious about labeling

Post by Wonderment » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:57 pm

Each person is far to complex to slap a label, and most would consider it demeaning to label them by something that is considered a dis-order (against the natural order of things). How strange to have a parade for people with far-sighted or near-sided disorder. I understand that many people who have homosexual preferences have suffered bullying. I stood up for one in junior high. So, I can see why some may feel a sense of healing to not feel such shame... yet pride is taking it too far. Let’s say a guy’s entire self-esteem is based on his lgbtq status and then, as many do, he decides to go heterosexual.
1. Far-sightedness may be a "disorder". Being gay is no longer considered a "disorder" by the great majority of the medical or psychological community.
It is no longer considered "against the natural order of things."

2. Please give us a list of people who "decided to go heterosexual." Let's start with you. When did you "decide to go heterosexual" ? -- Wndr.

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Red Ryder
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Re: "We don't say that person is gay..." - I'm furious about labeling

Post by Red Ryder » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:52 am

Wonderment wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:57 pm

2. Please give us a list of people who "decided to go heterosexual." Let's start with you. When did you "decide to go heterosexual" ? -- Wndr.
The earliest I can remember choosing my heterosexuality was in the first grade when we had a substitute teacher that was way more educated than my normal teacher. If I remember correctly her name was June Cleavage. I’m assuming this was the day I chose to be a straight white heterosexual male republican. Shortly after in 2nd grade I was chasing Sarina Johnson around the playground and realized she was “cute” which must have been confirmation of my sexuality.

I’ve been heterosexual ever since although I do find the male body in fit form to be beautiful in a ..... “man that dude is ripped” sort of way.

I’m still trying to figure out my eye-ality. So far I’m b-“eye”. I’m near sighted and far sighted having 20/20 vision.

I have also chosen to “go independent” or perhaps even “go democrat” in 2020.

I no longer identify as republican.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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AllieOop
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Re: "We don't say that person is gay..." - I'm furious about labeling

Post by AllieOop » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:47 am

Newme wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:54 pm
Let’s say a guy’s entire self-esteem is based on his lgbtq status and then, as many do, he decides to go heterosexual.
What exactly are you referring to here when you state "he decides to go heterosexual"?

If you mean he decides to try marrying the opposite sex as was recommended at one time by church leaders as a cure for being gay, he's not suddenly heterosexual. He's simply someone who is gay and is entering a marriage with someone of the opposite sex.

Same thing would be true if you chose to marry someone the same sex as you are. Would you at that point cease to be a heterosexual and suddenly be a person who is gay and your attractions change?



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AllieOop
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Re: "We don't say that person is gay..." - I'm furious about labeling

Post by AllieOop » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:03 pm

Not Buying It wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:13 am
“I just wanted to add a few comments on gender and gender identification,” Hathaway said. “While we recognize what LGBT means, we do not use those labels when we talk about people. We don’t say, for example, that person is gay. We say that person struggles with same gender attraction.”
They also insist on using such phrases as the person "suffers with same-sex attraction". Many who are gay have reached out and communicated with church leaders regarding how offensive that phrase or identity is and have asked them to simply use the word "gay" (ie. "He is gay"). But the leaders will not honor that request.

I'm not sure why they can't see the difference and understand why it's offensive. It insinuates the person is suffering from an ailment or disease....which puts us right back to their old claims that being gay can be cured that had such disastrous results for them. ;)



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"There came a time when the desire to know the truth about the church became stronger than the desire to know the church was true."

Wonderment
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Re: "We don't say that person is gay..." - I'm furious about labeling

Post by Wonderment » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:59 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:52 am
Wonderment wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:57 pm

2. Please give us a list of people who "decided to go heterosexual." Let's start with you. When did you "decide to go heterosexual" ? -- Wndr.
The earliest I can remember choosing my heterosexuality was in the first grade when we had a substitute teacher that was way more educated than my normal teacher. If I remember correctly her name was June Cleavage. I’m assuming this was the day I chose to be a straight white heterosexual male republican. Shortly after in 2nd grade I was chasing Sarina Johnson around the playground and realized she was “cute” which must have been confirmation of my sexuality.

I’ve been heterosexual ever since although I do find the male body in fit form to be beautiful in a ..... “man that dude is ripped” sort of way.

I’m still trying to figure out my eye-ality. So far I’m b-“eye”. I’m near sighted and far sighted having 20/20 vision.

I have also chosen to “go independent” or perhaps even “go democrat” in 2020.

I no longer identify as republican.
LOL ! :lol: :lol: :lol: That's hilarious.

However, I'm actually asking NewMe, who may have traded membership in one sect of conservative Christianity ( Mormonism) for membership in another sect -- evangelical fundamentalism. Both are very close in believing that being gay is a "disorder" like near-sightedness and that gay people can decide to "go heterosexual". Anyone who states that gay people shouldn't have a pride parade because they're going against the "natural order of things" is still caught up in the church teachings.

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Hagoth
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Re: "We don't say that person is gay..." - I'm furious about labeling

Post by Hagoth » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:57 pm

AllieOop wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:03 pm
They also insist on using such phrases as the person "suffers with same-sex attraction". Many who are gay have reached out and communicated with church leaders regarding how offensive that phrase or identity is and have asked them to simply use the word "gay" (ie. "He is gay"). But the leaders will not honor that request.
I would love to hear an official explanation for keeping the name of their Mormon and Gay website:
https://mormonandgay.churchofjesuschrist.org/
That's a double victory for Satan perpetrated by the church itself.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hermey
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Re: "We don't say that person is gay..." - I'm furious about labeling

Post by Hermey » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:00 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:57 pm
AllieOop wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:03 pm
They also insist on using such phrases as the person "suffers with same-sex attraction". Many who are gay have reached out and communicated with church leaders regarding how offensive that phrase or identity is and have asked them to simply use the word "gay" (ie. "He is gay"). But the leaders will not honor that request.
I would love to hear an official explanation for keeping the name of their Mormon and Gay website:
https://mormonandgay.churchofjesuschrist.org/
That's a double victory for Satan perpetrated by the church itself.
:shock: :lol:

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Hagoth
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Re: "We don't say that person is gay..." - I'm furious about labeling

Post by Hagoth » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:01 pm

Wonderment wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:59 pm
Anyone who states that gay people shouldn't have a pride parade because they're going against the "natural order of things" is still caught up in the church teachings.
The church also said the same about monogamy and the "seed of Cain" participating in saving ordinances.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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moksha
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Re: "We don't say that person is gay..." - I'm furious about labeling

Post by moksha » Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:24 pm

Reminds me of an otherwise good person struggling with issues of judgmentalism because of their Mormonism attraction.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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alas
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Re: "We don't say that person is gay..." - I'm furious about labeling

Post by alas » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:23 am

moksha wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:24 pm
Reminds me of an otherwise good person struggling with issues of judgmentalism because of their Mormonism attraction.
DHO struggles with Mormonism attraction.

Excuse me, DHO struggles with attraction to Even the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Actually, I think he isn’t struggling enough against his disability of being Mormon, so he just suffers from his attraction to Even the Church Of Jesus Christ Of of Latter Day Saints.

Come to think of it *he* isn’t the one who suffers from his disability. Everyone around him suffers from his disability of being a judge mental bigoted Mormon. Maybe he just struggles to be a half decent human being.

However I suspect, from many statements he has made about how EVERYONE will go gay if there are no social repercussions from acting on same sex attraction, he obviously would make that choice himself if given the chance. So DHO is Gay and really has spent his life suffering from same sex attraction to the point he thinks that is normal and everybody is really a secret closeted gay married to a woman he doesn’t quite love and if given the chance, would dump his wife and run off with RMN. So, maybe he uses such language because he personally really does “suffer from same sex attraction.” And made a choice to live closeted. So maybe he thinks living straight is a choice because he made the choice to live closeted.

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Hagoth
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Re: "We don't say that person is gay..." - I'm furious about labeling

Post by Hagoth » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:10 pm

I'm having a hard time understanding the church's use of the word "struggle." I got this in my email today: https://outlook.live.com/mail/inbox/id/ ... L333HlAAAA
With the subject line "Do You Struggle with Sharing the Gospel?"
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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blazerb
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Re: "We don't say that person is gay..." - I'm furious about labeling

Post by blazerb » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:02 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:10 pm
I'm having a hard time understanding the church's use of the word "struggle." I got this in my email today: https://outlook.live.com/mail/inbox/id/ ... L333HlAAAA
With the subject line "Do You Struggle with Sharing the Gospel?"
I received the same email. I don't struggle with sharing the gospel, for the record. I just don't share the gospel, at least the Mormon version.

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DPRoberts
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Re: "We don't say that person is gay..." - I'm furious about labeling

Post by DPRoberts » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:42 pm

alas wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:23 am
moksha wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:24 pm
Reminds me of an otherwise good person struggling with issues of judgmentalism because of their Mormonism attraction.
DHO struggles with Mormonism attraction.

Excuse me, DHO struggles with attraction to Even the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Actually, I think he isn’t struggling enough against his disability of being Mormon, so he just suffers from his attraction to Even the Church Of Jesus Christ Of of Latter Day Saints.

Come to think of it *he* isn’t the one who suffers from his disability. Everyone around him suffers from his disability of being a judge mental bigoted Mormon. Maybe he just struggles to be a half decent human being.

However I suspect, from many statements he has made about how EVERYONE will go gay if there are no social repercussions from acting on same sex attraction, he obviously would make that choice himself if given the chance. So DHO is Gay and really has spent his life suffering from same sex attraction to the point he thinks that is normal and everybody is really a secret closeted gay married to a woman he doesn’t quite love and if given the chance, would dump his wife and run off with RMN. So, maybe he uses such language because he personally really does “suffer from same sex attraction.” And made a choice to live closeted. So maybe he thinks living straight is a choice because he made the choice to live closeted.
I find this interesting. I was aware of the legal brief that mentioned depopulating a nation, but I was not aware of "many statements". Do you know of specific talks or news releases?

The reason this intrigues me so much is that statements of that kind come across as totally absurd to a straight person like myself. Remember how your best buddy was suddenly too busy for you when he had "better looking company", and you understood and acted similarly when you had attractive company of the opposite sex? To me it seems that only a closeted gay person would even begin to consider the notion of straight folks turning gay.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

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Emower
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Re: "We don't say that person is gay..." - I'm furious about labeling

Post by Emower » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:27 pm

DPRoberts wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:42 pm
alas wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:23 am
moksha wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:24 pm
Reminds me of an otherwise good person struggling with issues of judgmentalism because of their Mormonism attraction.
DHO struggles with Mormonism attraction.

Excuse me, DHO struggles with attraction to Even the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Actually, I think he isn’t struggling enough against his disability of being Mormon, so he just suffers from his attraction to Even the Church Of Jesus Christ Of of Latter Day Saints.

Come to think of it *he* isn’t the one who suffers from his disability. Everyone around him suffers from his disability of being a judge mental bigoted Mormon. Maybe he just struggles to be a half decent human being.

However I suspect, from many statements he has made about how EVERYONE will go gay if there are no social repercussions from acting on same sex attraction, he obviously would make that choice himself if given the chance. So DHO is Gay and really has spent his life suffering from same sex attraction to the point he thinks that is normal and everybody is really a secret closeted gay married to a woman he doesn’t quite love and if given the chance, would dump his wife and run off with RMN. So, maybe he uses such language because he personally really does “suffer from same sex attraction.” And made a choice to live closeted. So maybe he thinks living straight is a choice because he made the choice to live closeted.
I find this interesting. I was aware of the legal brief that mentioned depopulating a nation, but I was not aware of "many statements". Do you know of specific talks or news releases?

The reason this intrigues me so much is that statements of that kind come across as totally absurd to a straight person like myself. Remember how your best buddy was suddenly too busy for you when he had "better looking company", and you understood and acted similarly when you had attractive company of the opposite sex? To me it seems that only a closeted gay person would even begin to consider the notion of straight folks turning gay.
I had a boss at one point who was convinced that the majority of gay kids these days were just "experimenting." I asked him at one point if the thought of "experimenting" that way was arousing to him. He of course responded vehemently in a disgusted "of course not, it's repulsive to me!" All I had to do was raise my eyebrow at him and he got the point.

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oliblish
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Re: "We don't say that person is gay..." - I'm furious about labeling

Post by oliblish » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:25 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:57 pm
I would love to hear an official explanation for keeping the name of their Mormon and Gay website:
https://mormonandgay.churchofjesuschrist.org/
That's a double victory for Satan perpetrated by the church itself.
Let's see. What should they change it to?

https://MemberOfTheChurchOfJesusChristOfLatterDaySaintsAndStrugglesWithSameSexAttraction.churchofjesuschrist.org
Stands next to Kolob, called by the Egyptians Oliblish, which is the next grand governing creation near to the celestial or the place where God resides; holding the key of power also, pertaining to other planets; as revealed from God to Abraham

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RubinHighlander
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Re: "We don't say that person is gay..." - I'm furious about labeling

Post by RubinHighlander » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:46 pm

Image

Let the old guys keeping saying really stupid things and the internet will continue to enjoy the fodder.

Seems to me the 15 and the 70 all suffer from brown-nose-your-peers-and-prophets-deluded-world-cult-view same sex attraction. They quote each other more often than they do the scriptures or Jesus, with some token time given to the sisters. How often do you hear a priesthood holder quote any of the sister token leaders?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE

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