What does the church get right?

[Corsair]

Is there anything that the church gets right more than any other religion? It appears that in general, if you have a reasonably supportive religious social group then many extraneous benefit are evident. But, I could take just about any blessing you fine folks have mentioned above and find it in some other local faith. It's leadership and congregation roulette all the way down.

At times, Mormons are pretty intense about some of their social support. But I think this has to be matched with an equal fervency for the weirdness of LDS culture. I have a temple rather close by to my ward. This has led a lot of ward and stake members to be temple worker and regular temple attenders. I'm not one of the regular temple patrons unless I am invited to a wedding or family temple session. But, I get all of the "blessings" from living within a social group that has these more intense ideals.

This is not a guaranteed system and I'm sure there are less effective LDS wards just as there are less supportive Evangelical churches and Catholic parishes.

[Journey]

Structure, for those who need it, or are somewhat “flailing” through life

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

For those on the outside social fringes due to circumstances out of their control and who would normally be completely isolated from greater society, it offers a way to feel included and needed. I can see other religions offering the same benefit. A tribe for the tribe-less.

[Newme]

I had a friend visiting from Sweden over recently with his wife and kids and they asked about living in the Salt Lake City area. I had a hard time coming up with good things, so much that they started naming them for me. They have a very different perspective though, being relatively neutral about mormonism and distant from the situation. If I'm superficially looking from the outside then here are some possible positives with the church.

- Mormon families seem to tend to be closer. Parents spend more time with their kids, kids are closer to their parents. I think this is encouraged at church on Sunday and in general conference twice a year. (Even if it is discouraged by over-extending responsibilities and speaking out of both sides of their mouths.)

- Mormons seem to have fewer issues with addiction to tobacco and alcohol; a huge societal problem.

- Mormons seem to be less likely to get violent. You can walk down the street at night pretty comfortably in mormon-heavy areas (Passive-aggression prevents real aggression?)

- A basketball court in every building. This is awesome.

It does help to get outside perspectives.
A friend who lives in a much less Mormon area sees the church as a haven from all the crime, liberal policies etc., & never seemed to notice the negative, cultish aspects.

[Emower]

I don't think the church gets the family thing right. Someone here recently said somewhere that Mormons are the only christians who believe in eternal speration. Sad, but I think true. Once I was able to look at people without judging, I have seen a lot of great families, just not ones that looked like mine growing up.

And sure, crime might be less which is good. But financial crime is worse, so there's that.

[Palerider]

I think the church does take care of members who have fallen on difficult times to a degree. But somehow they always seem to do it just a little begrudgingly.

I have to respectfully disagree. I had a heart attack a month ago and required a bit of surgery. This was completely out of the blue. I am 40 and in great physical shape. When I returned home my house had been cleaned from top to bottom. There was an amazing recliner in my TV room. My lawn was mowed every week by a 70-year-old couple and the tile floor I had started in my bathroom had been done absolutely beautifully by a man nearly twice my age. For three weeks I wanted for nothing. I had visitors everyday to see to my needs. Despite the flaws of the church my ward members couldn't have been a single bit better.

Wouldn't disagree with you here at all. And this is one of the good things about the membership of the church. They are most times very helpful.
It's the organization/corporation that prefers that you get help from your family and the members first before the actual corporation is going to cough up any help.

But even that depends a little on leadership roulette.

I draw a big distinction between the corporation and the membership.

When I was in school in San Francisco I contracted a severe case of pneumonia and had to eventually go to emergency for help. We were so poor that I almost fainted when I saw the bill. I asked a financial clerk if there was anything I could do to work off the medical bill because I had no money.

She asked me what my circumstances were and I explained that I was going to school full-time while working a part time job and that my wife worked full time and that we had four little children as well.
We were just barely scraping by.

She said that the Catholic Church owned the hospital I had gone to and that every year they donated a certain amount of their services to the poor. She told me not to worry about the bill, that it would be taken care of.

I was so relieved I almost cried and also realized that they were doing this for someone who wasn't even a member of their faith.
I know, I know.....the LDS church occasionally gets it's members to do things for the community and feeds a few nonmembers when the cameras are on but here the Catholic Church was just quietly picking up the tab for a family in need.

I will always appreciate that generosity and have never spoken down about the Catholic Church since that time. Not like the old days when I was a missionary and we used to hammer them all the time. My perspective had changed suddenly and in a dramatic way.

[alas]

I think the church does take care of members who have fallen on difficult times to a degree. But somehow they always seem to do it just a little begrudgingly.

I have to respectfully disagree. I had a heart attack a month ago and required a bit of surgery. This was completely out of the blue. I am 40 and in great physical shape. When I returned home my house had been cleaned from top to bottom. There was an amazing recliner in my TV room. My lawn was mowed every week by a 70-year-old couple and the tile floor I had started in my bathroom had been done absolutely beautifully by a man nearly twice my age. For three weeks I wanted for nothing. I had visitors everyday to see to my needs. Despite the flaws of the church my ward members couldn't have been a single bit better.

Wouldn't disagree with you here at all. And this is one of the good things about the membership of the church. They are most times very helpful.
It's the organization/corporation that prefers that you get help from your family and the members first before the actual corporation is going to cough up any help.

But even that depends a little on leadership roulette.

I draw a big distinction between the corporation and the membership.

When I was in school in San Francisco I contracted a severe case of pneumonia and had to eventually go to emergency for help. We were so poor that I almost fainted when I saw the bill. I asked a financial clerk if there was anything I could do to work off the medical bill because I had no money.

She asked me what my circumstances were and I explained that I was going to school full-time while working a part time job and that my wife worked full time and that we had four little children as well.
We were just barely scraping by.

She said that the Catholic Church owned the hospital I had gone to and that every year they donated a certain amount of their services to the poor. She told me not to worry about the bill, that it would be taken care of.

I was so relieved I almost cried and also realized that they were doing this for someone who wasn't even a member of their faith.
I know, I know.....the LDS church occasionally gets it's members to do things for the community and feeds a few nonmembers when the cameras are on but here the Catholic Church was just quietly picking up the tab for a family in need.

I will always appreciate that generosity and have never spoken down about the Catholic Church since that time. Not like the old days when I was a missionary and we used to hammer them all the time. My perspective had changed suddenly and in a dramatic way.

I totally concur. I worked for a short time for Catholic Family Services. So, I saw first hand how the Catholic faith operates and it is so generous compared to the stingy Mormon church. There was no, “see if your extended family can help,” or “you have to see you local priest and get approved” or shaming you or public embarrassment. I have also been RS President, so I have had an inside view of how Mormon charity works. With Catholic F S, if you need food, you go to the food pantry and fill your cart with what you need. No one goes through your kitchen as I was supposed to do to see if they are REALLY out of food. I refused to search the cupboards, but just sat down and asked for a grocery list and then filled it. No one demands that you beg your adult children to pay your medical bills, as they did to my in-laws. The counseling went off a sliding fee scale. You didn’t have to be destitute. Just show your income, and we figured out how much you paid. It didn’t matter if you had a wealthy uncle you could beg from. If you need help, they try to help. They don’t shame you, or make you beg from relatives. When the government had Trump’s temper tantrum shut down, my daughters who were both furloughed didn’t go to the Mormon church, because it would have told them to take money out of their parent’s retirement, no, they went to the Catholic food kitchen.

So, we have some generous members. But then I have seen my ATV club pitch in 20k for an ATVer who got hurt and couldn’t work for months. So, are Mormons really any more generous than any other group of friends?

I also have a couple of horror stories of the Mormon church refusing to help out of spite. Oh, you are out of work because of a strike? Do you belong to the union? If yes, your kids get to go hungry. Doesn’t matter if you voted to strike or not. Doesn’t matter if the strike is about safety because people have been getting killed at 10 per year. If you are a union member your kids go hungry because the Bishop happens to be anti union politically.

Or really big problems like when my brother was brain injured and the bishop saw it as a black hole that if he started with any help, the need was so big that there would be no end, so he refused to even let the RS women help at all. My DD was not active, so not a “in group family”. And there was a 100 year old feud between the bishop’s family and my mother’s family that dated back to polygamy. My mother in law was RS president at the time, so I know the bishop ordered her not to let any help at all be given. That amounts to just plain old spite. Three of my siblings left the church over that bit of spite. So, Mormons can be uncaring jacka**es too.

[wtfluff]

I have to respectfully disagree. I had a heart attack a month ago and required a bit of surgery. This was completely out of the blue. I am 40 and in great physical shape. When I returned home my house had been cleaned from top to bottom. There was an amazing recliner in my TV room. My lawn was mowed every week by a 70-year-old couple and the tile floor I had started in my bathroom had been done absolutely beautifully by a man nearly twice my age. For three weeks I wanted for nothing. I had visitors everyday to see to my needs. Despite the flaws of the church my ward members couldn't have been a single bit better.

The members do get this sort of thing right a lot of the time. I've been on the receiving end of such giving, and I am still overwhelmed with thankfulness when I think about it. Begrudgingly, I also have to admit that it is "the church" that builds this community. This is one area where they do "get it right" but I honestly think it has nothing to do with the "institutional church" and the "institutional" welfare program, run by the "institutional church." These same members would more than likely get this sort of thing "right" no matter what social group they were a part of. I've seen the same sort of things happen in the "ex-mormon" community. Funny how the "institutional church" brought both of those groups of people together...

[Emower]

I have to respectfully disagree. I had a heart attack a month ago and required a bit of surgery. This was completely out of the blue. I am 40 and in great physical shape. When I returned home my house had been cleaned from top to bottom. There was an amazing recliner in my TV room. My lawn was mowed every week by a 70-year-old couple and the tile floor I had started in my bathroom had been done absolutely beautifully by a man nearly twice my age. For three weeks I wanted for nothing. I had visitors everyday to see to my needs. Despite the flaws of the church my ward members couldn't have been a single bit better.

The members do get this sort of thing right a lot of the time. I've been on the receiving end of such giving, and I am still overwhelmed with thankfulness when I think about it. Begrudgingly, I also have to admit that it is "the church" that builds this community. This is one area where they do "get it right" but I honestly think it has nothing to do with the "institutional church" and the "institutional" welfare program, run by the "institutional church." These same members would more than likely get this sort of thing "right" no matter what social group they were a part of. I've seen the same sort of things happen in the "ex-mormon" community. Funny how the "institutional church" brought both of those groups of people together...

The church is a confounding variable here. Impossible to say (objectively) whether or not people would or would not be more charitable without its presence. I know several people who would not be as charitable if they did not have the encouragement from the church specifically. Likewise I know people who would be charitable regardless, I also know people (me) who the church has made less charitable. So, take your pick which one to focus on I suppose.

[foolmeonce]

I have to respectfully disagree. I had a heart attack a month ago and required a bit of surgery. This was completely out of the blue. I am 40 and in great physical shape. When I returned home my house had been cleaned from top to bottom. There was an amazing recliner in my TV room. My lawn was mowed every week by a 70-year-old couple and the tile floor I had started in my bathroom had been done absolutely beautifully by a man nearly twice my age. For three weeks I wanted for nothing. I had visitors everyday to see to my needs. Despite the flaws of the church my ward members couldn't have been a single bit better.

The members do get this sort of thing right a lot of the time. I've been on the receiving end of such giving, and I am still overwhelmed with thankfulness when I think about it. Begrudgingly, I also have to admit that it is "the church" that builds this community. This is one area where they do "get it right" but I honestly think it has nothing to do with the "institutional church" and the "institutional" welfare program, run by the "institutional church." These same members would more than likely get this sort of thing "right" no matter what social group they were a part of. I've seen the same sort of things happen in the "ex-mormon" community. Funny how the "institutional church" brought both of those groups of people together...

The church is a confounding variable here. Impossible to say (objectively) whether or not people would or would not be more charitable without its presence. I know several people who would not be as charitable if they did not have the encouragement from the church specifically. Likewise I know people who would be charitable regardless, I also know people (me) who the church has made less charitable. So, take your pick which one to focus on I suppose.

I think that if there were studies out there that show how many service hours Mormons put in compared to their say, other Christian peers, Mormons would be near the top of the heap. I think that if there were an objective way to measure overall societal impact of the hours, we would fall a few pegs. (Temple work hours wouldn't count, neither would most administrative service hours like EQ secretary and the like, service hours that steal $ from the lowest in the economic spectrum like cleaning church toilets and working the land on hunting reserves would have a negative impact).

With that said and playing on the theme that the members are amazing people despite COJCOLDS, I think that taking care of each other has been built into our culture and the VERY FIBER OF OUR BEINGS through our repeated isolated settlements and resettlements. Add tithing and consecration to that and you suddenly have a group of people that have built a safety net as a form of survival. This is another great case of the church creating the problem you didn't have before, forcing you to fix it in the exact manner it prescribes, then telling you that you'd be lost and in trouble without it.

[Newme]

I don't think the church gets the family thing right. Someone here recently said somewhere that Mormons are the only christians who believe in eternal speration. Sad, but I think true. Once I was able to look at people without judging, I have seen a lot of great families, just not ones that looked like mine growing up.

And sure, crime might be less which is good. But financial crime is worse, so there's that.

It’s definitely a mixed bag. The problem is in focusing on just the good or bad. And the church leadership is different than the members, but there are puppet strings.

You bringing up financial crime (prevelant in Utah) reminds me that this lds cult-ure has a lot of double standards when it comes to ethics and morality. It’s ok to be a neglectful, overweight parent, but if one looks at porn - it calls for divorce! It’s ok to be emotionally abusive, shaming and undermining - as long as you go to the temple regularly. What dysfunctional BS! It’s like a dysfunctional family who pretends to be perfect but is secretly seriously disturbed.

To end on a better note, the church does facilitate us serving one another. When people go through hard times, there’s compassionate service calling people to ensure we all help out. Even if it is done under a sense of obligation - it’s compassionate and often helpful for people feeling burdened.

2 more pluses: learning new things (usually by the seat of your pants) in new callings, high standards (less teen pregnancy, less stds etc).