Joys of LDS Afterlife

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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moksha
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Joys of LDS Afterlife

Post by moksha » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:41 pm

I think many of the ideas of an LDS afterlife sound wonderful. You get to eventually be a god and have your own planet. You will be floating around with your loved ones (God will sort out all the visitations - after the first week, the complaint department will be so over logged with calls, that the entire notion of Mormon bindings on earth will be abandoned and the previous universalist policy will be reinstated). Peace and love will rule the planets and Jupiter will align with Mars.

More good stuff: You will have perfected bodies and IQs capable of processing celestial mechanics are incredible speeds. Nothing but French pressed Kona coffee served on the veranda by a heavenly host singing your favorite tunes. Add a loaf of bread, a jug of wine, and paradise enough. The video games will finally have full ray tracing and adaptive AI.

Joseph Smith will be the gatekeeper asking for the secret password, but it will appear on the jumbotron screen behind him flashing "The Principle". Enter and make yourself comfortable.

Your thoughts about this afterlife?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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RubinHighlander
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Re: Joys of LDS Afterlife

Post by RubinHighlander » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:40 am

Honestly? DW and I have had this discussion several times. Even as TBMs there so many times she said she was fine with the Telestial level because of all the guilt and BS it takes to be one of the "great" families in the ward. After raising six kids through a couple of divorces we have no interest in popping out a trillion kids on our own planet, only to be stressed out and grumpy all the time because most of them won't do what you want them to. And would each of us have to also be a savior or have a son that is going to be tortured beyond comprehension? And if mormon God's plan is the same rinse and repeat cycle, wouldn't that mean that 99.9% of your kids will get it wrong? I mean, if the Mormon's are the one true way then right now only .02% of the humans on this planet have it right...maybe, because a much smaller percentage of those are recommend holding zealots.

That's one Fd up plan! Now, if I had my choice to be with DW for eternity without the obligation to repeat that Fd up plan and could do something different, I might be interested in that. Shouldn't kids learn from their parents and not repeat their mistakes? Even through the world wide flood was metaphorical, what does that say about the OT God? All his angry bitterness, bipolar behavior, messing with the lives of his kids, allowing women to be treated like property, allowing incest, lies, making bets with the devil, telling a small group of chosen kids they are more special than everyone else and can even kill in the name of their god. Fd UP!!!
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
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Advocate
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Re: Joys of LDS Afterlife

Post by Advocate » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:49 am

The whole "families can be together forever" has always struck me as weird. Most member friends that I am close enough with to discuss parents/in-laws usually confide that they can't stand having their parents/in-laws visit for more than a couple days. While I hope that I am different, I've got to think that my cute young kids will will probably feel the same way about me when they're middle-aged and I'm old. Yet heaven is us all being together forever?

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Hagoth
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Re: Joys of LDS Afterlife

Post by Hagoth » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:28 am

Advocate wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:49 am
The whole "families can be together forever" has always struck me as weird. Most member friends that I am close enough with to discuss parents/in-laws usually confide that they can't stand having their parents/in-laws visit for more than a couple days. While I hope that I am different, I've got to think that my cute young kids will will probably feel the same way about me when they're middle-aged and I'm old. Yet heaven is us all being together forever?
Also, with me in my family, sealed to my wife and kids, AND simultaneously in my parents' family, them in their parent's families, my wife in her parent's family, my kids sealed to their spouses who are also in their parents' families, etc, etc... the whole thing falls apart just one level deep, like much of LDS doctrine. Eternal families from a broader perspective are the same as everyone in one big family, which is the same as no one in any particular family.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Emower
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Re: Joys of LDS Afterlife

Post by Emower » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:23 pm

RubinHighlander wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:40 am
Even through the world wide flood was metaphorical, what does that say about the OT God? All his angry bitterness, bipolar behavior, messing with the lives of his kids, allowing women to be treated like property, allowing incest, lies, making bets with the devil, telling a small group of chosen kids they are more special than everyone else and can even kill in the name of their god. Fd UP!!!
Not gonna argue with that.
RubinHighlander wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:40 am
And if mormon God's plan is the same rinse and repeat cycle, wouldn't that mean that 99.9% of your kids will get it wrong? I mean, if the Mormon's are the one true way then right now only .02% of the humans on this planet have it right...maybe, because a much smaller percentage of those are recommend holding zealots.
I will, for the sake of argument however, argue with this. This ignores the main thrust of the Mormon afterlife program, which is that most people will see the light, be converted, enter into the new and everlasting covenant, and be exalted if they accept the missionary efforts that will happen on the other side of the veil. I think thats how most TBMs think of the plan?

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RubinHighlander
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Re: Joys of LDS Afterlife

Post by RubinHighlander » Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:15 pm

Emower wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:23 pm
I will, for the sake of argument however, argue with this. This ignores the main thrust of the Mormon afterlife program, which is that most people will see the light, be converted, enter into the new and everlasting covenant, and be exalted if they accept the missionary efforts that will happen on the other side of the veil. I think thats how most TBMs think of the plan?
Also, we'll have 1000 years of peace, if and when the millennium ever gets here, to mop up all the mess from the first 6000 years :roll:
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Wonderment
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Re: Joys of LDS Afterlife

Post by Wonderment » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:50 pm

think many of the ideas of an LDS afterlife sound wonderful. You get to eventually be a god and have your own planet. You will be floating around with your loved ones (God will sort out all the visitations....
Unfortunately, this only applies to men who will get their own planet. Women will not have their own planets, but they are forced to share their husbands with hundreds if not thousands of sister-wives, as the role of women in the afterlife is to be kept eternally pregnant with spirit children, while their husband floats around impregnating all of the sister wives he possibly can. For me as a woman, this is only of the most terrifying aspects of Mormonism, and it is clear that no women were ever consulted when this afterlife idea was designed.

If anyone has any doubts that Mormon women are considered to be absolutely nothing and are to be regarded as handmaidens with wombs to be filled up, the afterlife descriptions will remove all doubts. The idea that TBM women placidly and docilely accept this horror as their pre-determined fate is unbelievable to me. - Wndr.

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Emower
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Re: Joys of LDS Afterlife

Post by Emower » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:18 pm

Wonderment wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:50 pm
...as the role of women in the afterlife is to be kept eternally pregnant with spirit children, while their husband floats around impregnating all of the sister wives he possibly can. For me as a woman, this is only of the most terrifying aspects of Mormonism, and it is clear that no women were ever consulted when this afterlife idea was designed.

If anyone has any doubts that Mormon women are considered to be absolutely nothing and are to be regarded as handmaidens with wombs to be filled up, the afterlife descriptions will remove all doubts. The idea that TBM women placidly and docilely accept this horror as their pre-determined fate is unbelievable to me. - Wndr.
I think the number of Mormon women who aware of the material that suggests this is very small, and the suggestion that those who are aware of it just accept it (the number of those are smaller still) is just not accurate, IMO. I would be willing to bet that those who are aware of it, and continue activity, reject it as false. If we suggest here that they accept it based solely on their activity in the church I think we fall into the same ole trap of reducing things to a binary choice.

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moksha
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Re: Joys of LDS Afterlife

Post by moksha » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:13 pm

Wonderment wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:50 pm
Unfortunately, this only applies to men who will get their own planet. Women will not have their own planets, but they are forced to share their husbands with hundreds if not thousands of sister-wives, as the role of women in the afterlife is to be kept eternally pregnant with spirit children, while their husband floats around impregnating all of the sister wives he possibly can.
Not all can be bowls of cherries and rectangles of baklava. However, are we sure that was not just the lust-filled wishes of Joseph Smith and other hankering polygamists rather than an accurate description of the LDS afterlife? Has that idea been discussed since the time of Brigham Young?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Wonderment
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Re: Joys of LDS Afterlife

Post by Wonderment » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:17 am

Not all can be bowls of cherries and rectangles of baklava. However, are we sure that was not just the lust-filled wishes of Joseph Smith and other hankering polygamists rather than an accurate description of the LDS afterlife? Has that idea been discussed since the time of Brigham Young?
I would think that current TBM's understand the phrase "celestial marriage" to be a euphemism for polygamy. The spirit children are to be birthed by the polygamous wives, then at the appropriate time, the spirit children drop down into an earthly womb, having been individually assigned by Heavenly Father to earthly parents. The hymn "I Am a Child of God" comes to mind here.

In my mind, I imagine a meeting of early missionaries, where the trainer stands up and says, "Okay, here's how your sales pitch should go. You say, 'Hey, mister, have I got a religion for you. All you gotta do is live clean and pay your tithing on earth, then in the afterlife, you can have all the women you choose. You get to stay busy by gettin' busy with them, because their role is to pop out those kids like crazy. And your wife cannot do a thing about it, because you're traveling all the time between all the different worlds. You're just like a sailor, with a gal in every port --- er, a gal on every planet. Sounds great, doesn't it?"

If you were to take a survey of TBM's and ask, "What do you think the term 'celestial marriage' means?", I think a lot of answers would make reference to polygamy. In a polygamous system, the men have free rein to choose, and the women are completely trapped. Especially in the afterlife, how can a woman divorce her husband or refuse to be a sister-wife ? There's no way. If she is assigned to be pregnant for all eternity, because "it's Heavenly Father's will", then what can she do? In the afterlife, women are completely S.O.L. :roll:

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Re: Joys of LDS Afterlife

Post by Wonderment » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:26 am

Also, in my mind, I believe that the reason Heavenly Mother is silent, is NOT because Heavenly Father is so-called "protecting" her. It's because he's got her tied up and gagged in a basement somewhere. Otherwise, she would have never, never, consented to the construction of the afterlife as it currently is. She would have resisted and yelled her head off about it: "The hell with that crap. Have you been drinking again, old man?" ;)

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Hagoth
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Re: Joys of LDS Afterlife

Post by Hagoth » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:47 am

Wonderment wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:26 am
Also, in my mind, I believe that the reason Heavenly Mother is silent, is NOT because Heavenly Father is so-called "protecting" her. It's because he's got her tied up and gagged in a basement somewhere. Otherwise, she would have never, never, consented to the construction of the afterlife as it currently is. She would have resisted and yelled her head off about it: "The hell with that crap. Have you been drinking again, old man?" ;)
I think she walked out on him a few thousand years ago when he started talking about killing their kid as a band-aid for letting a snake talk one of their daughters into eating some bad fruit.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

Wonderment
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Re: Joys of LDS Afterlife

Post by Wonderment » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:00 am

I think she walked out on him a few thousand years ago when he started talking about killing their kid as a band-aid for letting a snake talk one of their daughters into eating some bad fruit.
:D

For men in the afterlife, it's like arriving at a 5 star hotel and being greeted by the concierge: " Good evening, sir, we've been expecting you. Your planet is all ready; we hope the location is suitable. Make yourself comfortable on your planet, sir ; and shortly thereafter we'll send over some attractive wives to make sure that you're well taken care of."

For women in the afterlife, it's like being trafficked: "Yeah, your husband won't be needing you for awhile. He's in another quadrant of the universe. No, you can't contact him. He'll show up when he wants to. Meanwhile, there's a rumpled stack of used maternity tops over there. Go rummage through the pile and find some that are your size. You'll need 'em. "

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Coop
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Re: Joys of LDS Afterlife

Post by Coop » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:03 am

RubinHighlander wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:40 am
Honestly? DW and I have had this discussion several times. Even as TBMs there so many times she said she was fine with the Telestial level because of all the guilt and BS it takes to be one of the "great" families in the ward.
I had the wife of a good friend say the same thing to me. She was absolutely certain that the best she could hope for was the Telestial kingdom. The Church's perspective on perfection can be a crushing burden. And don't even get me started on the concept of daily repentance, or the enabling power of the atonement. There are so many doctrinal deviations and historical myths taught in the Church that it is a miracle that Church can continue to function. And if that is true then the fact that the Church is still ticking along is ironically a sign that it might be true. It's a strange , strange world we live in master Jack.

The way I make sense of the next life is to think of it as a template for this life. Man is that he might have joy and that sort of thing. I have no idea exactly how or what I will be, or be doing, in the next life. I do, however, know for a fact that when I tell my wife that I love her and show her that I love her by what I do then my life is a little more heavenly. In fact on some Friday nights (date night in my house) heaven is here on earth.

All the best,
Bob

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Red Ryder
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Re: Joys of LDS Afterlife

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:14 am

Hey wonderment,

A loving Heavenly Father will always spend a few minutes cuddling his just spiritually impregnated wife before moving on to his next “appointment” in order to make her feel loved and accepted. I do believe it’s on a sliding scale though so wife #1 gets the most time while wife # 7,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 gets very little cuddle time.

It’s the eternal law’s of God and can’t be questioned or revised. It’s just the way things are and have always been!
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

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Red Ryder
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Re: Joys of LDS Afterlife

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:17 am

Coop wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:03 am
The way I make sense of the next life is to think of it as a template for this life. Man is that he might have joy and that sort of thing. I have no idea exactly how or what I will be, or be doing, in the next life. I do, however, know for a fact that when I tell my wife that I love her and show her that I love her by what I do then my life is a little more heavenly. In fact on some Friday nights (date night in my house) heaven is here on earth.

All the best,
Bob
Bob, I appreciate your posts that point out the humanity of our situation here on earth.

Angry skepticism just kills the mood here and now. Thanks for the reminder to look for the silver lining in a mixed faith marriage.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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Re: Joys of LDS Afterlife

Post by wtfluff » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:32 am

moksha wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:13 pm
However, are we sure that was not just the lust-filled wishes of Joseph Smith and other hankering polygamists rather than an accurate description of the LDS afterlife? Has that idea been discussed since the time of Brigham Young?
Dear, dear Penguin... Is D&C 132 still in the LDS Canon? Yes?

As long as D&C 132 remains, it matters not how much "discussion" there is about "The new and everlasting covenant." Polygamy is still canonized ETCOJCOLDS doctrine.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

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