I hate to even have to ask this question

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Hagoth
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I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by Hagoth » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:35 pm

Concerning Timothy Hallows: the child porn distributor and child molester...

Will he get excommunicated just like another bishop we all know who was trying to prevent this kind of thing?

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/10/17/ ... -arrested/
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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MalcolmVillager
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Re: I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by MalcolmVillager » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:30 pm

This makes me absolutely sick and furious. I know he is just a man, called by other fallible men. That is always the excuse.

Yet where is the discernment? He was approved by the first presidency. All those poor kids and parents in his ward.

Why do we continue to allow leaders of any gender to be alone with our children. I pray for huge lawsuits. At least some victims could get some of my tithing money back.

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deacon blues
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Re: I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by deacon blues » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:03 pm

I'm still surprised, but less and less. This likely was a long term problem.
God is Love. God is Truth

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Red Ryder
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Re: I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:06 pm

It’s actually good to see that some billion dollar corporations don’t have a problem doing the right thing.
According to a probable cause statement, it was a tip from Microsoft, which owns the video-chat app Skype, to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children that put investigators on Hallows’ trail. Microsoft told the center on Aug. 6 that a user it identified as Hallows had been using Skype to upload and distribute images of child porn.
Come on Nelson and the Mormon Church! When are YOU going to do the right thing?
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Red Ryder
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Re: I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:36 pm

From the youth protection training:
Your Responsibility to Act:

Bishops and Stake Presidents
If you learn of abuse, contact the abuse help line about every situation in which a person may have been abused or neglected.

Other Leaders and Teachers
If you learn of abuse, you should immediately contact legal authorities. Also contact your bishop for counsel and direction.
Notice the bishops aren’t to call the authorities? But rather the abuse help line.

What do you do when the BISHOP is the abuser?

Dear LDS Church, STOP PROTECTING ABUSERs!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Red Ryder
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Re: I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:47 pm

Reading the article has infuriated me.

How dumb can the church spokesman Hawkins be?
“The allegations against this individual are serious and deeply troubling," Hawkins said in a statement. “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has no tolerance for abuse of any kind, including child pornography, and teaches its members and leaders that such behavior is offensive to God and to his church.
How about the church start teaching their members that such behavior is ILLEGAL and start screening and doing background checks on its BISHOPS and all ADULTS called to work with CHILDREN!

Sam Young should have his excommunication overturned and changed to a resignation. I guarantee he doesn’t want to be associated with the Mormon church any longer.

Hell, I don’t want to be a member anymore!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Palerider
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Re: I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by Palerider » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:24 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:47 pm
......start screening and doing background checks on its BISHOPS and all ADULTS called to work with CHILDREN!
Church leadership are totally blind on this "callings" stuff. Remember how Paul H. Dunn used to say in his conference talks crap like, "The general authorities are aware of you. We know who you are." As if by some magical telepathy they could see all of the members and what they were doing.

Church leadership hasn't got a clue who they're really putting into these callings. They're all just taking the word of some local SP who's taking the word of some local Bishop who thinks Bro. Brown is a really good guy.

And so what if they get it wrong once in a while?!? It's only some little kid's childhood they've screwed up. Nothing to get ones' garments in a twist about. No reason to change the sacred policies that great grandpa Prophet put into place 100 years ago.

Why, if we had background checks on anyone working with youth and made it a hardcore policy that NO LEADER/TEACHER IS ALONE WITH CHILDREN AT ANY TIME IN ANY CHURCH FUNCTION.....that would make us look untrusting and it would put in doubt our ability to discern character by the Spirit! We can't have that now can we....

It's worth the occasional cost of a little kid's childhood to keep things the way they are. We can afford it. :mrgreen:

Sam Young who...???

:roll:
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Just This Guy
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Re: I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by Just This Guy » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:02 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:06 pm
It’s actually good to see that some billion dollar corporations don’t have a problem doing the right thing.
According to a probable cause statement, it was a tip from Microsoft, which owns the video-chat app Skype, to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children that put investigators on Hallows’ trail. Microsoft told the center on Aug. 6 that a user it identified as Hallows had been using Skype to upload and distribute images of child porn.
Come on Nelson and the Mormon Church! When are YOU going to do the right thing?
This is the 2nd time in the last few months where some perv was caught by the service provider. Skype in this case, Snapchat a couple months ago with the Gabe Gilbert case. What does it say when these tech companies do a much better job at identifying these people than the power of discernment can?

It is pretty obvious that the church cannot do anything to catch these people or protect people from them.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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Not Buying It
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Re: I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by Not Buying It » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:00 am

The practice of Bishops being alone with youth should have ended, well, it never should have started. I can't even begin to describe how crazy it is that a guy like that was in a position to be alone in a room with young people.

The Church obviously doesn't know who is and who is not going to be a problem - the responsible thing to do would be to end practices that give creeps like this access to children. The fact they haven't says all you need to know about how much they don't care about their members.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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MoPag
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Re: I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by MoPag » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:32 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:47 pm
Reading the article has infuriated me.

How dumb can the church spokesman Hawkins be?
“The allegations against this individual are serious and deeply troubling," Hawkins said in a statement. “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has no tolerance for abuse of any kind, including child pornography, and teaches its members and leaders that such behavior is offensive to God and to his church.
How about the church start teaching their members that such behavior is ILLEGAL and start screening and doing background checks on its BISHOPS and all ADULTS called to work with CHILDREN!

Sam Young should have his excommunication overturned and changed to a resignation. I guarantee he doesn’t want to be associated with the Mormon church any longer.

Hell, I don’t want to be a member anymore!

Oh My Gods... Every time Erik Hawkins opens his mouth I want to scream!!!! Those horribly scripted, shallow, hollow, non-apologies are so infuriating. Those stupid statements are insulting to victims, they are insulting to Jesus and they are insulting to God. And anyone with half a brain cell can see straight through that bullsh!t.

Dear Erik Hawkins,

DON'T SELL YOUR SOUL. YOU MIGHT NEED IT ONE DAY!!!!!!
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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Hagoth
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Re: I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by Hagoth » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:33 am

MalcolmVillager wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:30 pm
Yet where is the discernment? He was approved by the first presidency. All those poor kids and parents in his ward.
Mrs. Hagoth pointed this out before it even occurred to me.

I was more befuddled by the quote from Hallows on the KUTV news that "they weren't real children." WTF? My first guess was that he was talking about computer generated imagery, but then he admitted to taking pictures of children in his own ward and having sexual contact with them. Maybe some of the things he shared were CG so he attempted to save face by stuffing everything into that compartment?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hagoth
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Re: I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by Hagoth » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:39 am

MoPag wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:32 am

Dear Erik Hawkins,

DON'T SELL YOUR SOUL. YOU MIGHT NEED IT ONE DAY!!!!!!
I don't know what Hawkins looks like but when I read this kind of stuff I picture:

Image
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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MoPag
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Re: I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by MoPag » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:23 pm

Snagged this from exmo Reddit. This is the face of LDS inc.
hawkinsbarf.png
hawkinsbarf.png (155.07 KiB) Viewed 752 times
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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nibbler
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Re: I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by nibbler » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:23 pm

Background checks only turn out people that have already been caught. While it's a much better start than the nothing that's currently being done, the preferred solution is to stop worthiness interviews altogether. Stop them.
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

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2bizE
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Re: I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by 2bizE » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:55 pm

Short answer: Yes, he will be excommunicated. He will go to prison, then once released, he will be brought back into the fold and called to serve in the Primary.
Sam: he opposed church leaders, so he is expelled forever.

Thoughts: one big problem is how Mormons tend to group sin into buckets. For example, members may have a bucket for the sin of Child pornography and sexually abusing children. Also In that bucket are the equally terrible sins of checking out the Mormon Girlz website as well as the sin of masturbation. Those sins are pretty much the same right?
Another sin bucket may include hijacking an airplane and killing 200 innocent passengers as well as the sin of drinking coffee. Very similar sins.
And the worst bucket has the sin of denying the Holy Ghost as well as the sin of disobedience to church leaders. These would be the most terrible of sins.
This is why many Mormons are idiots.
~2bizE

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2bizE
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Re: I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by 2bizE » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:58 pm

This story needed to happen just before Sams March and GC.
~2bizE

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Hagoth
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Re: I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by Hagoth » Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:39 pm

2bizE wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:55 pm
For example, members may have a bucket for the sin of Child pornography and sexually abusing children. Also In that bucket are the equally terrible sins of checking out the Mormon Girlz website as well as the sin of masturbation. Those sins are pretty much the same right?
And don't forget the sin of being gay. If you're guilty of that sin you cannot have a calling that puts you near children. On the other hand, known pedophiles can be around children if they claim to have repented.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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alas
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Re: I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by alas » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:43 pm

2bizE wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:55 pm
Short answer: Yes, he will be excommunicated. He will go to prison, then once released, he will be brought back into the fold and called to serve in the Primary.
Sam: he opposed church leaders, so he is expelled forever.

Thoughts: one big problem is how Mormons tend to group sin into buckets. For example, members may have a bucket for the sin of Child pornography and sexually abusing children. Also In that bucket are the equally terrible sins of checking out the Mormon Girlz website as well as the sin of masturbation. Those sins are pretty much the same right?
Another sin bucket may include hijacking an airplane and killing 200 innocent passengers as well as the sin of drinking coffee. Very similar sins.
And the worst bucket has the sin of denying the Holy Ghost as well as the sin of disobedience to church leaders. These would be the most terrible of sins.
This is why many Mormons are idiots.
You know, I was going to say that the church considers porn as porn and I am not sure they know the difference between abusing children to get kiddy porn and hiring an willing adult actress to make “normal” porn. So, this guy will just be punished for looking at porn.



But, I think I like the way you said it better than anything I could say.

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slk
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Re: I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by slk » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:34 pm

I'm actually glad this happened in Utah but feel bad that it even happened. It's just a bigger deal when it happens here.

I want to say that KSL didn't print "former" bishop in the first news story like they typically do. This was pretty crazy news though.

The hell with doing background checks. One on one interviews behind closed doors need to cease all together so we can put a wrench in recruiting two year salesmen.

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Hagoth
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Re: I hate to even have to ask this question

Post by Hagoth » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:13 am

slk wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:34 pm
I want to say that KSL didn't print "former" bishop in the first news story like they typically do.
I guess they were honest enough to recognize that he did some of these things while serving as bishop.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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