Bob McCue: The Church is like a Narcotic

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Red Ryder
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Bob McCue: The Church is like a Narcotic

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:54 am

In a conversation with Corsair last night he mentioned Bob McCue, a name I hadn’t thought about for awhile now. For those that don't know, Bob McCue’s experience leaving the church played out back around the same time my faith crisis started. Bob’s writings were excellent and helped me to see the problems of the church. I went back and read through some of Bob’s writings.

http://bobmccue.ca/essays/

Let’s create a thread here where we discuss a Bob McCue essay like a book club.

I started reading this one and found some great insights.

http://bobmccue.ca/wp-content/uploads/2 ... stions.pdf

This paragraph really describes the difficulty in leaving the church. It’s literally like getting off of drugs.
The cumulative effect of what the Mormon Church does, as I have just indicated, is crippling to the individual. It retards individuation. And most ironically, this crippling, retarding process affects those who are most faithful in the most negative way. I have many friends who are social Mormons (that is, attend but are not fully committed), and have suffered much less damage than I have for precisely that reason - they never took it seriously, but rather just go along with the social flow and do their own thing. But if you really believe, and really try to do what "the Lord" wants, you don't individuate as you should and hence are less likely to develop the skills you need to walk away from the Mormon Church and feel good about yourself as you function in society.
The Church, in this sense, is like a narcotic or other addictive substance that feels good while creating an unhealthy dependency - gutting those who do it.
I think this explains why it’s been so difficult to walk away from Mormonism. Chapel Mormonism was fairly easy to leave, but Internet Mormonism has been nearly impossible for me. I’m an addict.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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2bizE
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Re: Bob McCue: The Church is like a Narcotic

Post by 2bizE » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:44 pm

Thanks RR. This is a treasure trove of information. The letters to Holland are amazing.
~2bizE

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Bob McCue: The Church is like a Narcotic

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:33 pm

I want to add that to the "one liner" thread.

"I individuated"

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hmb
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Re: Bob McCue: The Church is like a Narcotic

Post by hmb » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:24 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:54 am


http://bobmccue.ca/wp-content/uploads/2 ... stions.pdf

This paragraph really describes the difficulty in leaving the church. It’s literally like getting off of drugs.
The cumulative effect of what the Mormon Church does, as I have just indicated, is crippling to the individual. It retards individuation. And most ironically, this crippling, retarding process affects those who are most faithful in the most negative way. I have many friends who are social Mormons (that is, attend but are not fully committed), and have suffered much less damage than I have for precisely that reason - they never took it seriously, but rather just go along with the social flow and do their own thing. But if you really believe, and really try to do what "the Lord" wants, you don't individuate as you should and hence are less likely to develop the skills you need to walk away from the Mormon Church and feel good about yourself as you function in society.
The Church, in this sense, is like a narcotic or other addictive substance that feels good while creating an unhealthy dependency - gutting those who do it.
I think this explains why it’s been so difficult to walk away from Mormonism. Chapel Mormonism was fairly easy to leave, but Internet Mormonism has been nearly impossible for me. I’m an addict.
I was kind of lucky in that by the time I learned of the historical problems, I was already somewhat doubtful. I still hoped that it was true. I would look at various members of my ward and think that they were intelligent. If THEY had such strong testimonies it must be true. I just didn't have what it took to get all those powerful confirmations, blah blah blah. If I had learned of the real truth, when I loved all things mormon (including Sundays, callings, reading scriptures), I would have been devastated. As it was, I felt cheated, bamboozled. I was angry, but I wasn't devastated. I was emotionally relieved.

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moksha
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Re: Bob McCue: The Church is like a Narcotic

Post by moksha » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:27 am

I can see it being sort of like Paregoric, as well as Soma (the Brave New World variety, not the muscle relaxant).
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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crossmyheart
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Re: Bob McCue: The Church is like a Narcotic

Post by crossmyheart » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:28 am

moksha wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:27 am
I can see it being sort of like Paregoric, as well as Soma (the Brave New World variety, not the muscle relaxant).
OMG! Thread jack! I loved paregoric! Boy that brings me back to my childhood- long before the days of safety helmets and seatbelts. Paregoric didn't work on me- I had a stomach of steel.

I would compare it more to arsenic... slow poisoning not the quick vomit inducing.

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wtfluff
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Re: Bob McCue: The Church is like a Narcotic

Post by wtfluff » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:44 pm

The church might be a bit like a narcotic when you're trying to "quit."

That narcotic isn't something many of us choose though; It's more like a virus that's passed on from prior generations. :(
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Brilliant.

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Corsair
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Re: Bob McCue: The Church is like a Narcotic

Post by Corsair » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:31 pm

The letters with Elder Holland were my introduction to Bob McCue. Seeing a familiar, apostolic name gave me some grounding to read them. Brother McCue appears to only write long-form essays. The ideas were presented very well and in great detail. He presents the perspective that was there all along without me recognizing it for years.

By a tiny coincidence, he lived in my mission. He would have been a full believer at the time I was in Canada. I would love to buy a drink for him if I ever meet him.

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deacon blues
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Re: Bob McCue: The Church is like a Narcotic

Post by deacon blues » Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:15 am

Bob McCue was pretty deep, but I appreciated his warning that telling your spouse about your broken shelf on your anniversary is not a good idea. :roll: Hearing his name makes me feel old in NOM years. ;) It will be ten years in March, when my shelf broke.Keeping a journal was good for something. :lol:
God is Love. God is Truth

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Angel
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Re: Bob McCue: The Church is like a Narcotic

Post by Angel » Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:30 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:54 am
In a conversation with Corsair last night he mentioned Bob McCue, a name I hadn’t thought about for awhile now. For those that don't know, Bob McCue’s experience leaving the church played out back around the same time my faith crisis started. Bob’s writings were excellent and helped me to see the problems of the church. I went back and read through some of Bob’s writings.

http://bobmccue.ca/essays/

Let’s create a thread here where we discuss a Bob McCue essay like a book club.

I started reading this one and found some great insights.

http://bobmccue.ca/wp-content/uploads/2 ... stions.pdf

This paragraph really describes the difficulty in leaving the church. It’s literally like getting off of drugs.
The cumulative effect of what the Mormon Church does, as I have just indicated, is crippling to the individual. It retards individuation. And most ironically, this crippling, retarding process affects those who are most faithful in the most negative way. I have many friends who are social Mormons (that is, attend but are not fully committed), and have suffered much less damage than I have for precisely that reason - they never took it seriously, but rather just go along with the social flow and do their own thing. But if you really believe, and really try to do what "the Lord" wants, you don't individuate as you should and hence are less likely to develop the skills you need to walk away from the Mormon Church and feel good about yourself as you function in society.
The Church, in this sense, is like a narcotic or other addictive substance that feels good while creating an unhealthy dependency - gutting those who do it.
I think this explains why it’s been so difficult to walk away from Mormonism. Chapel Mormonism was fairly easy to leave, but Internet Mormonism has been nearly impossible for me. I’m an addict.
Wow, thanks for posting this. Just the other day I posted a similar observation in a closed fb group - a discussion on embracing reality, rather than escaping it.

Things people do to escape reality: drugs, internet & gaming, religion

How to embrace reality instead: Enjoy the beautiful fall weather outside, read/listen to non-fiction literature & documentaries, put phone away and be present with those you are with. Let go of cog-dis, recognize personal biases, let go of attachments, be wiling to change.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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DPRoberts
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Re: Bob McCue: The Church is like a Narcotic

Post by DPRoberts » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:42 pm

Double post
Last edited by DPRoberts on Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

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DPRoberts
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Re: Bob McCue: The Church is like a Narcotic

Post by DPRoberts » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:43 pm

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:33 pm
I want to add that to the "one liner" thread.

"I individuated"
Yes, another fine variant of my favorite one liner. Individuative/reflective is the title Fowler uses for stage 4. Individuation is a normal part of human development that high demand groups suppress for their own ends.

Bob McCue was one of the first writers I encountered whose disaffection really resonated with me. It was the letters to elder Holland that I first became acquainted with. Very NOMish and very pro individual growth and agency. I am reading his "why I left " essay now.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

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