Out Groups

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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Linked
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Out Groups

Post by Linked » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:05 pm

I am struggling with tribalism. My out group is not exclusively believing mormons, but it certainly includes them. And my family are believing mormons. When I hear how my older brother who was my hero when I was a kid uses Clear Play and Vid Angel to watch The Good Place I am physically nauseated. When my dad offers me a blessing to bring peace to a life choice situation that simply needs time and some considering I get angry. When my sister tells me she is worried about her adult son spending time with me because she is afraid that we will see pornography in an R rated movie and it will destroy his life I roll my eyes.

The things they say are so much what I despise in my out group. Fear of swear words. Fear of life choices. Fear of sexuality. I reject these. Maybe it's not so much an out group thing as that these are the kinds of things I heard for so many years and tried to buy into but eventually overcame to become myself. So when I see them it brings back the frustration of many years, along with the emotions of many situations where these things were painful to me. Kind of like getting triggered.

Maybe I just need more space.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Emower
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Location: Carson City

Re: Out Groups

Post by Emower » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:42 pm

Sorry man. Everytime I read your posts, I feel for you. I think you have two options here that do not include more drama.

Find a new outgroup. That might involve drama, depending on what the group looks like. Easier said than done however. I got involved in the county fair here. They are good peeps. I know your family situation is complicated though. I am sorry for that.

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jfro18
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Re: Out Groups

Post by jfro18 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:49 pm

I'm so sorry - I am so grateful I do not live near my in-laws for this very reason. I have one sister-in-law who is out of the church, and she's the only one I feel comfortable with these days because I know the others all talk behind our backs about church stuff along with the fears you mentioned above.

So luckily for me I just don't have any Mormon interactions beyond my wife and the group I've met up with a few times of locals that have recently left the church.

I suppose the one good option is to find space by finding a new group to see and do activities with which I was recommended to do, but I feel like creating more space has downside too.

Just sorry you're going through it - It is so triggering to me when family discuss church stuff as if we all need to live in a G rated Disney movie... all while they take shortcuts on other church rules when it's convenient.

Vent away and maybe see if there's some intersection between your interests and some outside group that you can get away from it all with?

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Red Ryder
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Re: Out Groups

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:59 pm

I think there are 3 fundamental rules that apply when leaving the church. We are all super familiar with the first one but don’t often recognize or know how to accomplish the other two.

The 3 Fundamental Rules are:

1. Take it slow
2. Build a new identity and existence to replace the church void.
3. Become indifferent to the church.

Believe it or not you can do this while still married to a TBM. You just have to work at strengthening your tolerance and resilience to all things church and learn to pull people around you away from church conversations. Become a Jazz fan or pick an NFL team or baseball team to follow. Replace the GA worship with fantasy football or other hobbies. Go to a few games and talk endlessly around your family about your new love for sports. Pick any other hobbies of interest that will occupy your time, talents, and Sunday afternoons.

If you focus on YOU and the things your interested in you’ll make new friends and have wonderful conversations with new people. Eventually your family can talk all they want about church stuff, and you’ll just nod your head and then make a comment about your hobbies and get everyone around you to talk about that.

Remember, you only have to be a Mormon for 2 hours a week and 3/4 of that time can easily be spent on your phone reading about the things you’re interested in.

Make a list of the things you would like to do or become. Write it down below and let’s tease out the foundation of your replacement plan.

Another thing is to consider the Amish. Do they bother you? Why should Mormons?
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Emower
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Location: Carson City

Re: Out Groups

Post by Emower » Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:21 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:59 pm

Another thing is to consider the Amish. Do they bother you? Why should Mormons?
I don't know what the Amish look like in their underwear and that is comforting. What does Amish lingerie look like? A woolen thong?

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moksha
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Re: Out Groups

Post by moksha » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:48 am

Linked wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:05 pm
When I hear how my older brother who was my hero when I was a kid uses Clear Play and Vid Angel to watch The Good Place I am physically nauseated.
Let your brother watch what he wants as a matter of tolerance. Sort of a golden rule thing.
When my dad offers me a blessing to bring peace to a life choice situation that simply needs time and some considering I get angry.
Wanting to give you a blessing shows that he cares about you, he is your dad and he is supposed to care. Just acknowledge the caring and that is sufficient.
When my sister tells me she is worried about her adult son spending time with me because she is afraid that we will see pornography in an R rated movie and it will destroy his life I roll my eyes.
That is outright hostility on your sister's part. You need to tell her to quit being so insulting and offensive.

Best wishes.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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græy
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Location: Central TX

Re: Out Groups

Post by græy » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:00 am

This is a tough spot. Like jfro18, I live quite far from most of my family, but I can still empathize with you because when we are together, there is no discussion outside of the church topics.

My brother and his wife humble brag about how his daughters were never allowed to see the new Beauty and the Beast movie because it supports gays. My mother ridicules and mocks her friends, family, and acquaintances who "don't even where garments anymore!" *GASP!*

I play on a weekly adult sports team, most of the members of which are not members of the church. It is so nice to have that brief respite where callings, DW's expectations, and general mormon culture have precisely ZERO weight in the conversation around me.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

stuck
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Re: Out Groups

Post by stuck » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:11 am

Sorry to hear your plight Linked, but I guess most of us are in the same boat. Hopefully we and the church can continue to make baby steps so that eventually it won't be such a problem to not participate in church. It's like we are the new pioneers transitioning away from religion. I'm sure we are not alone even among other religions. The world is much more secular and science based compared to when our ancestors joined the cult, thank goodness.

Stuck

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Linked
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Re: Out Groups

Post by Linked » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:36 am

moksha wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:48 am
Linked wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:05 pm
When I hear how my older brother who was my hero when I was a kid uses Clear Play and Vid Angel to watch The Good Place I am physically nauseated.
Let your brother watch what he wants as a matter of tolerance. Sort of a golden rule thing.
When my dad offers me a blessing to bring peace to a life choice situation that simply needs time and some considering I get angry.
Wanting to give you a blessing shows that he cares about you, he is your dad and he is supposed to care. Just acknowledge the caring and that is sufficient.
When my sister tells me she is worried about her adult son spending time with me because she is afraid that we will see pornography in an R rated movie and it will destroy his life I roll my eyes.
That is outright hostility on your sister's part. You need to tell her to quit being so insulting and offensive.

Best wishes.
You point out how I should just let these things go (the first 2 anyway), and that's kind of the point of my post. I can't. I recognize that I should, but when it happens it's like lighting a match. I guess I can recognize the good while my little emotional tempest brews, then take the me time I need to get my feelings back under control before seeing them again. But if time with them is painful then I should probably limit it.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Linked
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Re: Out Groups

Post by Linked » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:59 am

Thanks for all the support NOM! My posts here are usually pretty negative, because the positive stuff is boring, but overall things are actually pretty good. Just a few interactions with my family in a short period of time has me in a tough spot. Thank you for your commiseration.

Some boring positive stuff:
I recently mentioned to DW that this may be my last year participating in callings. Primary with my wife and son is good, but the other kids in the class can be very difficult and I would prefer to be doing something else. DW was not super happy but she didn't look surprised, and there have been no tears. We skip church for family activities about once a month. I've made some personal goals and am working toward them and seeing progress and it's been great. I've been able to improve my productivity at work and am getting more satisfaction in that area. I think that issues related to my faith transition have made it difficult to make progress in other areas, so I am taking the progress in other areas as a sign that I'm moving along positively with my faith transition.

But getting the mormon punches still hurts, and it can make it hard to enjoy the progress in other areas.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Newme
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Re: Out Groups

Post by Newme » Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:34 am

Linked wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:36 am
You point out how I should just let these things go (the first 2 anyway), and that's kind of the point of my post. I can't. I recognize that I should, but when it happens it's like lighting a match. I guess I can recognize the good while my little emotional tempest brews, then take the me time I need to get my feelings back under control before seeing them again. But if time with them is painful then I should probably limit it.
I can relate. I’ll be going along fine for a while - until I get triggered. Extended family (of origin) is especially triggering. I thought how I need to expect their cultish behavior and yet be compassionate since I used to engage in it too.

Limits/boundaries are good. But if I don’t replace them, it feels like a void - kind of lonely. There are meet-up groups I’ve gone to - but some are on Sunday and I am in a calling that requires my attendance. I try to go by the Spirit/Intuition and have felt like I need to endure this calling longer, partly to learn and serve, but it’s also hurting me at times.

I hope we all figure out how to live in Mormonland without being of it. ;)

Anon70
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Re: Out Groups

Post by Anon70 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:34 am

græy wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:00 am
This is a tough spot. Like jfro18, I live quite far from most of my family, but I can still empathize with you because when we are together, there is no discussion outside of the church topics.

My brother and his wife humble brag about how his daughters were never allowed to see the new Beauty and the Beast movie because it supports gays. My mother ridicules and mocks her friends, family, and acquaintances who "don't even where garments anymore!" *GASP!*
I really dislike this about Mormons I know/am related to. And if I dare bring up that loving everyone and not judging are commandments I get a lot of righteous indignation about “standing for truth and righteousness.” And lots of stories about how “Christ threw people out of the temple!” Which I think is them just justifying being close minded, racist, sexist and bigoted but then I’m a “dirty apostate” so 🤷🏼‍♀️

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slavereeno
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Location: QC, AZ

Re: Out Groups

Post by slavereeno » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:04 pm

Linked wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:59 am
Some boring positive stuff:
I recently mentioned to DW that this may be my last year participating in callings. Primary with my wife and son is good, but the other kids in the class can be very difficult and I would prefer to be doing something else. DW was not super happy but she didn't look surprised, and there have been no tears. We skip church for family activities about once a month. I've made some personal goals and am working toward them and seeing progress and it's been great. I've been able to improve my productivity at work and am getting more satisfaction in that area. I think that issues related to my faith transition have made it difficult to make progress in other areas, so I am taking the progress in other areas as a sign that I'm moving along positively with my faith transition.

But getting the mormon punches still hurts, and it can make it hard to enjoy the progress in other areas.
Linked,

I really like this boring positive stuff list! I can definitely relate to the family stuff, I am very much in the throws of it right now.

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