"I wish I could talk with Linked like this!"

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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Linked
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"I wish I could talk with Linked like this!"

Post by Linked » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:10 pm

My mom mentioned to me that she was having a religious discussion with my sister the other day and as they were talking she said to my sister that she wishes she could talk with me that way. I began responding with the reasons that is difficult and she jumped in to say that she just wanted to let me know that they were thinking about me. I was not about to back away from her comment that she wanted to talk about religious things with me though.

So my parents and I had a religious discussion for 15 minutes. They talked about their beliefs, I was honest about mine, and I don't think anyone's feelings were hurt. It was actually kind of nice. Maybe our relationship can become wedge-free.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Palerider
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Re: "I wish I could talk with Linked like this!"

Post by Palerider » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:39 pm

You might already know the answer, or possibly you do but a great question might have been, " What was it that you enjoyed about talking with Sis about religion?"

She's probably wanting to connect with you and feels that talking about church would be one of the ways if it wasn't so difficult.

I'm thinking maybe instead of starting out talking about the church, she might be asked to imagine talking to someone on an airplane or a bus about religion in general. How would she respond to that person's beliefs?
Or maybe a religious principle, like what do you think free agency really means? If a person of another religion is really good at heart would you hold their religion against them and not talk to them?

I know it seems different when we're talking about family. There are "expectations". But in order to avoid complete alienation the rebuilding of the relationship has to start somewhere. So where is that common ground?
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Linked
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Re: "I wish I could talk with Linked like this!"

Post by Linked » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:15 am

Palerider wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:39 pm
You might already know the answer, or possibly you do but a great question might have been, " What was it that you enjoyed about talking with Sis about religion?"

She's probably wanting to connect with you and feels that talking about church would be one of the ways if it wasn't so difficult.

I'm thinking maybe instead of starting out talking about the church, she might be asked to imagine talking to someone on an airplane or a bus about religion in general. How would she respond to that person's beliefs?
Or maybe a religious principle, like what do you think free agency really means? If a person of another religion is really good at heart would you hold their religion against them and not talk to them?

I know it seems different when we're talking about family. There are "expectations". But in order to avoid complete alienation the rebuilding of the relationship has to start somewhere. So where is that common ground?
Good points. You are correct, she feels like our relationship has become superficial and would like to connect on a deeper level. Our family is one that has typically enjoyed deep discussions. I feel the same way. But both sides recognize the hurdles to open, deep discussions, so we have stayed away from them while still spending some time together.

My parents are trying, and have never threatened or insinuated shunning me. I think both parent's answers would be positive regarding people who believe differently. Maybe enough time has passed that we can have those discussions without it being too painful for either side.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Advocate
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Re: "I wish I could talk with Linked like this!"

Post by Advocate » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:35 am

I think the realization that the church isn't everything it claims makes keeping extended family relationships that much harder. Unless you live on the same street or something, I think both sides find that they don't have much to connect about. Even with being a NOM and still attending church, I find it easier to connect with TBM family than non-TBM family. It's easy to talk on the phone about the struggles of a new calling (even if the struggles aren't gospel-related but are just figuring out the scout program or dealing with rowdy kids), how great two hour church is now, or speculate what the youth program will look like next year. For my non-church active family, they have no interest or reason to talk about any of those things. Politics is usually a pretty dangerous subject. Sometimes it feels like there just isn't much to connect on. Especially if you live far away and don't see them very often.

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Palerider
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Re: "I wish I could talk with Linked like this!"

Post by Palerider » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:08 pm

Linked wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:15 am
Palerider wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:39 pm
You might already know the answer, or possibly you do but a great question might have been, " What was it that you enjoyed about talking with Sis about religion?"

She's probably wanting to connect with you and feels that talking about church would be one of the ways if it wasn't so difficult.

I'm thinking maybe instead of starting out talking about the church, she might be asked to imagine talking to someone on an airplane or a bus about religion in general. How would she respond to that person's beliefs?
Or maybe a religious principle, like what do you think free agency really means? If a person of another religion is really good at heart would you hold their religion against them and not talk to them?

I know it seems different when we're talking about family. There are "expectations". But in order to avoid complete alienation the rebuilding of the relationship has to start somewhere. So where is that common ground?
Good points. You are correct, she feels like our relationship has become superficial and would like to connect on a deeper level. Our family is one that has typically enjoyed deep discussions. I feel the same way. But both sides recognize the hurdles to open, deep discussions, so we have stayed away from them while still spending some time together.

My parents are trying, and have never threatened or insinuated shunning me. I think both parent's answers would be positive regarding people who believe differently. Maybe enough time has passed that we can have those discussions without it being too painful for either side.
I think it's Covey who says "seek first to understand...then seek to be understood."

When we ask questions that genuinely look to understand the "other" they end up vocalizing inner stances or territory that they have staked out and want to defend. In the process of doing that vocalization, they sometimes realize the fallacy and harm caused by taking that position. Plus, it gives them the confidence that you're not trying to hurt them or disregard their feelings. You're just trying to find your way through life according to your own inner compass.

Listening with intent to understand and then reflecting that understanding back to the "other" breathes oxygen into the relationship. They feel your empathy towards them and then they want to return that empathy with your struggle. You may still disagree with each other but the relationship is strengthened.

Really hoping that with time, this will work out for you in a good way.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Linked
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Re: "I wish I could talk with Linked like this!"

Post by Linked » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:23 am

Palerider wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:08 pm
I think it's Covey who says "seek first to understand...then seek to be understood."

When we ask questions that genuinely look to understand the "other" they end up vocalizing inner stances or territory that they have staked out and want to defend. In the process of doing that vocalization, they sometimes realize the fallacy and harm caused by taking that position. Plus, it gives them the confidence that you're not trying to hurt them or disregard their feelings. You're just trying to find your way through life according to your own inner compass.

Listening with intent to understand and then reflecting that understanding back to the "other" breathes oxygen into the relationship. They feel your empathy towards them and then they want to return that empathy with your struggle. You may still disagree with each other but the relationship is strengthened.

Really hoping that with time, this will work out for you in a good way.
I was not very good at letting them express themselves; I cut them off because I felt like I know what they are getting at and then I jump into what I think. I saw them for a few minutes again today and apologized for that. They said they really enjoyed the talk either way, so I guess I wasn't too bad, but I will still try to be better going forward.

Thanks for your comments.
Advocate wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:35 am
I think the realization that the church isn't everything it claims makes keeping extended family relationships that much harder. Unless you live on the same street or something, I think both sides find that they don't have much to connect about. Even with being a NOM and still attending church, I find it easier to connect with TBM family than non-TBM family. It's easy to talk on the phone about the struggles of a new calling (even if the struggles aren't gospel-related but are just figuring out the scout program or dealing with rowdy kids), how great two hour church is now, or speculate what the youth program will look like next year. For my non-church active family, they have no interest or reason to talk about any of those things. Politics is usually a pretty dangerous subject. Sometimes it feels like there just isn't much to connect on. Especially if you live far away and don't see them very often.
It is really hard when you both think the other person is doing really harmful things in the name of good. I see my parents a couple times a week, so we need to figure stuff out. So far we've been okay talking about tech and family stuff, but most of the people in my family prefers more serious conversations; definitely my parents and me.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Palerider
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Re: "I wish I could talk with Linked like this!"

Post by Palerider » Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:47 pm

Linked wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:23 am
I saw them for a few minutes again today and apologized for that. They said they really enjoyed the talk either way, so I guess I wasn't too bad, but I will still try to be better going forward.
When I was young, I used to kind of like John Wayne. But something about him always bugged me. Wasn't sure what it was.

Then I saw a quote from him that also may have ended up as a line in one of his movies:

"Never say you're sorry, kid. It's a sign of weakness."

That's when I realized that although he may have been well intentioned, he was also full of crap.

A heartfelt apology can go a long ways to mending or strengthening a relationship. It takes a real man (or woman) to do it.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

stuck
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Re: "I wish I could talk with Linked like this!"

Post by stuck » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:31 pm

Good luck Linked with having a good conversation with your sister. Hopefully it will go like it did with your parents and then hopefully she will at least have more empathy and understanding for where you're at.

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