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Breasts in the news
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:10 am
by 2bizE
What is your take on this issue from Utah NOM?
A husband and wife were applying insulation to their home. After, they were covered in insulation and were itchy. They both removed their shirts in their home. The man’s children came down the stairs and saw their step mom topless. Now she’s being charged with lewdness.
What say ye judge and jury?
https://www.ksl.com/article/46677209/ut ... orneys-say
Re: Breasts in the news
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:33 am
by Corsair
I'm really glad that all of the difficult problems in our society and legal system have been solved so that judges in a conservative state can apply their wisdom to people being naked in their own home, in a utilitarian, non-sexual way.
Re: Breasts in the news
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:49 am
by Just This Guy
So the couple were hanging drywall in the garage and took their clothes off to keep from getting dusty. Was it open to public or not? That wasn't addressed. If it wasn't, then that sounds like someone had to go out of their way to see them and raise a stink. If it wasn't, then since toplessness is legal in Utah, then I can't see how this would translate into lewdness since it was not done in a sexual manner. Sounds like an attorney trying to raise a fuss.
On top of that I think this statement from the prosecuting attorney sums it up well.
Corey Sherwin, deputy West Valley City attorney, noted that other laws based on morality around the country have been upheld in the courts.
He said it’s not that women are being picked on by the Utah Legislature. Nudity is commonly understood to include not only “lower parts of the body,” he added, “but also the female breast.”
That alone defines it as discriminatory. It applies to one gender and not the other. I get the feeling that this will be a long, drawing out process of appeals, but I hope they eventually get exonerated.
Re: Breasts in the news
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:08 am
by FiveFingerMnemonic
Story seems really strange. First off, who in their right mind likes drywall dust on their bare skin? Second, who filed the charges or made the complaint? If I had to guess, it was the step children's Mom who heard about it from the step kids. Interesting case. Third, look at the picture that accompanies the story and tell me it wasn't chosen on purpose.
Re: Breasts in the news
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:16 am
by Hermey
FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:08 am
Story seems really strange. First off, who in their right mind likes drywall dust on their bare skin? Second, who filed the charges or made the complaint? If I had to guess, it was the step children's Mom who heard about it from the step kids. Interesting case....
Here's a link to an earlier article in the SL Tribune.
https://outline.com/VxYqNx
Re: Breasts in the news
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:57 am
by Just This Guy
According to the Trib article, the Stepmom didn't have an issue with the toplessness. It is primary the prosecutors who are pushing for it. Over zealos CPS?
Re: Breasts in the news
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:04 am
by Red Ryder
And there you have it folks!
Had she left her garment top on she wouldn’t be in this crazy situation.
DO NOT REMOVE YOUR GARMENTS.
Not when insulating or drywalling.
Not when mowing the lawn.
Not when having sex with your spouse.
Not when going to the Dr. appt.
Not when swimming.
Not when sporting.
Not fully when bathing. Leave on one arm.
Never fully remove your garments.
You risk getting arrested for public lewdness!
You risk losing the spirit.
You risk your eternal salvation!
Re: Breasts in the news
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:24 am
by Jeffret
It's hard to see how the attempts to prosecute her aren't going to run afoul of the precedent set by my city losing in the 10th Circuit. The City decided not to appeal after spending $322,000 in legal costs. As
Fort Collins lifts prohibition on female toplessness, "the decision to not appeal the ruling essentially makes it legal for women to be topless in the entire 10th circuit – Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, Kansas, New Mexico and Oklahoma." If government cannot discriminate in public toplessness, it's very difficult to figure out how it can do so in private.
After Fort Collins declined to pursue it's case, a neighboring city,
Loveland, "reached a $50,000 settlement with a woman whom police cited this fall for being topless in a home's front yard". Loveland decided that they "would be unlikely to prevail in court because of a district court and 10th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling against the city of Fort Collins' topless ban."
Utah is in the 10th Circuit so it's hard to see how they can get around this, particularly in this case. However, Utah governments have a long history of wasting lots of money in what are clearly bone-headed, wrong, and destined to fail.
Re: Breasts in the news
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:49 am
by Hagoth
I don't get it. So, if a kid walks in on a parent in the bath or shower that parent could go to jail? I don't really see the difference.
Re: Breasts in the news
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:54 am
by 2bizE
The story comments that breasts are inherently obscene. I’ve seen plenty of breasts in my day and only one set from a very very large man would I ever classify as obscene.
What is West Valley City doing here wasting taxpayer dollars. I was in WV twice last week and they should be focusing on drugs, gangs, and crime not breasts.
Re: Breasts in the news
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:06 pm
by Hagoth
So, if a kid walks in on a parent in the bath or shower that parent could go to jail? I don't really see the difference.
Re: Breasts in the news
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:08 pm
by Hagoth
2bizE wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:54 am
What is West Valley City doing here wasting taxpayer dollars. I was in WV twice last week and they should be focusing on drugs, gangs, and crime not breasts.
And shoulders!
Re: Breasts in the news
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:04 pm
by moksha
Hagoth wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:08 pm
2bizE wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:54 am
What is West Valley City doing here wasting taxpayer dollars. I was in WV twice last week and they should be focusing on drugs, gangs, and crime not breasts.
And shoulders!
Outside of the annual girls being turned away at Utah high school dances for bare shoulders, have there been any Utah shoulders prosecutions?
City of Provo v. Bare Shoulders? Or are all such prosecutions handled by Church courts?
Re: Breasts in the news
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:41 pm
by Raylan Givens
FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:08 am
Story seems really strange. First off, who in their right mind likes drywall dust on their bare skin? Second, who filed the charges or made the complaint? If I had to guess, it was the step children's Mom who heard about it from the step kids. Interesting case. Third, look at the picture that accompanies the story and tell me it wasn't chosen on purpose.
I though the same thing. Making sure you know what the kids had to “deal” with.
Re: Breasts in the news
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:13 am
by moksha
Bras in Pioneer History
Utah pioneer women were first introduced to wearing bras, when they were forced into a corral and then cut from the herd by means of Elders wielding silver crosses and braids of garlic into individual bra stands. The bras were hooked into place by fellow Relief Society inmates. These women were subsequently covered with garments and other clothing then released into their husband's custody.
Now you know the rest of the story.
Re: Breasts in the news
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:37 am
by Just This Guy
Re: Breasts in the news
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:32 pm
by Jeffret
Good. David Lane knows a fair bit about the topic, having been heavily involved in the Fort Collins Free the Nipple case and the Loveland case where the woman recently received a $50,000 settlement. This is yet another example of Utahn leaders thinking they know best so they'll do what they want and ignore the law and equality. What they know is their prejudice, which they impute onto their mythical god.
West Valley City Deputy Attorney Corey Sherwin argued in response that the 10th Circuit “Free the Nipple” ruling was very narrow and did not make any findings about whether the law there was constitutional or not. He said there hasn’t been any past cases that have “completely undone the notion that the Legislature cannot legislate morality.”
It's really not all that narrow. Basically, the City of Fort of Collins tried to create a law that allows public breastfeeding, because that's a state law, but prohibits women from showing their breast in public. Once the law was challenged in the court, the city, through its lawyers, tried to come up with justifications for why the law was necessary. The courts found that none of them provided any compelling interest and could not stand up to the women's demand for equality. All that was for public toplessness. It's very hard to see how laws against private behavior have any justification.
The quote from the West Valley City attorney, that there hasn’t been any past cases that have “completely undone the notion that the Legislature cannot legislate morality” is totally ludicrous. Where did he get his legal training?
Re: Breasts in the news
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:33 am
by Just This Guy
This disturbing part of that quote is that this prosecutor thinks it is the job of the legislature to dictate morality.
Re: Breasts in the news
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:51 am
by 2bizE
Jeffret wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:32 pm
Good. David Lane knows a fair bit about the topic, having been heavily involved in the Fort Collins Free the Nipple case and the Loveland case where the woman recently received a $50,000 settlement. This is yet another example of Utahn leaders thinking they know best so they'll do what they want and ignore the law and equality. What they know is their prejudice, which they impute onto their mythical god.
West Valley City Deputy Attorney Corey Sherwin argued in response that the 10th Circuit “Free the Nipple” ruling was very narrow and did not make any findings about whether the law there was constitutional or not. He said there hasn’t been any past cases that have “completely undone the notion that the Legislature cannot legislate morality.”
It's really not all that narrow. Basically, the City of Fort of Collins tried to create a law that allows public breastfeeding, because that's a state law, but prohibits women from showing their breast in public. Once the law was challenged in the court, the city, through its lawyers, tried to come up with justifications for why the law was necessary. The courts found that none of them provided any compelling interest and could not stand up to the women's demand for equality. All that was for public toplessness. It's very hard to see how laws against private behavior have any justification.
The quote from the West Valley City attorney, that there hasn’t been any past cases that have “completely undone the notion that the Legislature cannot legislate morality” is totally ludicrous. Where did he get his legal training?
Perhaps at either BYU law school or Saudi Arabia law school and religious police training center
Re: Breasts in the news
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:52 am
by 2bizE
Just This Guy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:33 am
This disturbing part of that quote is that this prosecutor thinks it is the job of the legislature to dictate morality.
Yes. These self righteous pricks can’t figure out that society can be divers and ok at the same time.
