NOM

Observation #2: Shut your pie hole Slavereeno, nobody want's to hear your church *stuff*

The dust has settled a little with family since the disclosure of my disaffection. Its OK to voice anything among the family, so long as it is positive towards the church or faith promoting. My comments are unwelcome and make everyone feel uncomfortable, please do not share them. I don't think anybody has given any thought that this could be a two way street and their gushing about Elder so and so make me feel uncomfortable. I realize that I need growth in this respect, and that it need to not bother me.

So I sit and stew inside and get more bitter, or come here and lurk.

I like these observation posts!

May I suggest you try to get to #100?

I made a comment once about garments and the wife said I was not entitled to an opinion because I no longer wore them. I said, so the 12 or 13 years I did wear them doesn’t count for something. Nope.

slavereeno wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:46 pm

...My comments are unwelcome and make everyone feel uncomfortable, please do not share them. I don't think anybody has given any thought that this could be a two way street and their gushing about Elder so and so make me feel uncomfortable.

There has to be a way for you to politely had courteously point out that their discussion about how wonderful the church make you uncomfortable.

azflyer wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:34 pm

There has to be a way for you to politely had courteously point out that their discussion about how wonderful the church make you uncomfortable.

Those who are the worst offenders are also the most passive-aggressive, but it may be worth a try.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:54 pm

May I suggest you try to get to #100?

Only three for now, I won't flood the board with these.

Several years ago after I told my wife that I no longer believe she asked me why. I told her a few things about Joseph Smith that bothered me - things about polygamy, the translation of the BOA and a couple of other things. I felt like I was really holding back and was trying to be as gentle as I could.

She immediately got extremely upset and asked me why I would say such horrible things. I reminded her that she was the one that asked. She paused for a moment, realizing that this was true and didn't say much more. We have not had any substantive talk about the church since then. The only thing she has said is that she never wants to hear any of the problems I have with the church.

slavereeno wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:46 pm

So I sit and stew inside and get more bitter, or come here and lurk.

Give it time. In my case it has become easier to deal with this over time. You'll also get better at re-directing the conversation without "offending" folks.

You've listened to this same stuff likely for your entire life. It may be a little more "over the top" right now, but it's nothing new, and the "over the top" will likely die down also. Re-frame such interactions as a sociological study in your mind, and just sit back, watch, and smile. I know it's hard to smile when you're screaming on the inside, but again, if you're like me, it will get better with time. And as someone else mentioned somewhere (in one of your new observation threads?) there is always a way to figure out how to completely extract yourself from the conversation; Blame it on explosive diarrhea if you really want to have fun.

oliblish wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:04 pm

Several years ago after I told my wife that I no longer believe she asked me why. I told her a few things about Joseph Smith that bothered me - things about polygamy, the translation of the BOA and a couple of other things. I felt like I was really holding back and was trying to be as gentle as I could.

She immediately got extremely upset and asked me why I would say such horrible things. I reminded her that she was the one that asked. She paused for a moment, realizing that this was true and didn't say much more. We have not had any substantive talk about the church since then. The only thing she has said is that she never wants to hear any of the problems I have with the church.

Obilish, thanks for this, I have had this experience with more than one family member also.

wtfluff wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:16 pm

I know it's hard to smile when you're screaming on the inside, but again, if you're like me, it will get better with time. And as someone else mentioned somewhere (in one of your new observation threads?) there is always a way to figure out how to completely extract yourself from the conversation; Blame it on explosive diarrhea if you really want to have fun.

It's nice to know that I am not the only one that feels like I am screaming on the inside!

slavereeno wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:33 pm

It's nice to know that I am not the only one that feels like I am screaming on the inside!

Oh yeah........many a time I have felt like standing up and saying, "You are all utterly insane idiots and you need to WAKE UP!!! The church is a blood sucking parasite that has injected you with a numbing chemical so that you can't feel the pain! Wake up!!!"

And when I feel that way I stand up and say, "Did you hear that....? I thought I heard something in the garage....."

oliblish wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:04 pm

Several years ago after I told my wife that I no longer believe she asked me why. I told her a few things about Joseph Smith that bothered me - things about polygamy, the translation of the BOA and a couple of other things. I felt like I was really holding back and was trying to be as gentle as I could.

She immediately got extremely upset and asked me why I would say such horrible things. I reminded her that she was the one that asked. She paused for a moment, realizing that this was true and didn't say much more. We have not had any substantive talk about the church since then. The only thing she has said is that she never wants to hear any of the problems I have with the church.

If your wife won’t listen to your problems with the church, perhaps she will listen to mine instead. You are welcome to share my problems with her, which incidentally are the same problems you have.

Slavereeno!!!

Its good to see(?) you again! I love this series of posts and can relate to all of them to some extent.

I debated on whether this reply was more appropriate in opinions or backfire threads, but here it is.

Tonight I watched my wife struggle to keep the kids' attention while she laid down paper dolls and circles trying to explain the PoS to our 4yo. He listened, obviously trying to understand but confused by the big words (DW did not make it easy on him). I felt, detached, realizing that the thoughts I had about the topic were not welcome. DW has now realized that if our kids are going to learn the POS PoS then it is up to her to explain it to them. She is firing on all cylinders with the backfire affect, and I am not allowed to talk during the process.

The church lies through their teeth for decades and now we're the bad guys!?

It was good to hear from you again, man. Stick around for a while! May take RR up on his challenge for 100 observations!

Slavereeno is far too accurate on this point. No one in the LDS church wants to hear your opinion if it is not orthodox. Ironically, full believing members can express opinions on things they might wish would change, but this kind of conversation is not appreciated from an apostate. As Oliblish noticed, even if they initiate the conversation they have an unintentional and unstated limit on what they will want to hear.

I'm not sure what the solution is. We can only change ourselves, after all. I spend my time working on some new hobby that does not involve the LDS church. It's just something we have to accept and instead look for the authentic connection outside of our believing social groups. That's not fun because it implies a loss of emotional intimacy with family. I have not found a real solution yet.

græy wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:01 pm

The church lies through their teeth for decades and now we're the bad guys!?

Exactly!

Thanks Gray.

Corsair wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:19 am

I'm not sure what the solution is. We can only change ourselves, after all. I spend my time working on some new hobby that does not involve the LDS church. It's just something we have to accept and instead look for the authentic connection outside of our believing social groups. That's not fun because it implies a loss of emotional intimacy with family. I have not found a real solution yet.

Yeah, I think this is what I am trying to grok.

slavereeno wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:09 pm

Corsair wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:19 am

I'm not sure what the solution is. We can only change ourselves, after all. I spend my time working on some new hobby that does not involve the LDS church. It's just something we have to accept and instead look for the authentic connection outside of our believing social groups. That's not fun because it implies a loss of emotional intimacy with family. I have not found a real solution yet.

Yeah, I think this is what I am trying to grok.

There is a loss of emotional intimacy. But as Corsair said, we can only change ourselves. So, what way can we change to have a solid emotional connection? We find a hobby that our spouse enjoys too, and form the emotional connection over that. For my husband and I, we both love nature. We hike (limited the last few years due to foot problems (three surgeries) We ATV, we go on drives, we get burgers and go sit in nature. We are snowbirds and during the Summer we are at Bear Lake with kayaks, ATVs, and lots of hiking. During the winter we are near Zion National Park, with lots of hiking, with the most miles of ATV trails anywhere in the world, and if we want to bring the kayaks down, there are two nice reservoirs. We even live in places where we get wildlife in our yards. We travel to ATV jamborees and national parks. We both have good cameras and we do photography.

If you can’t find anything else to connect over, maybe the only thing you had in common was the church, and you really don’t belong married. Think about it.

I am thinking of other mixed faith marriages and what they share when they don’t share a common faith and there has to be respect from the TBM, in spite of the non belief. For example, my brother is apostate and his wife is still TBM. But she worships the ground he walks on. Personally, I don’t get that because big brothers are always kind of jerks, but there it is. This is why you out Mormon the Mormons. Be the kindest, most loving, giving guy you can possibly be. Earn her respect in other ways. Be a great Dad, be a great husband. Love your family more than you hate the church. Instead of tithing, adopt a family for Christmas, or just one child. go to the local “feed the homeless” program and volunteer.

“Steve” wrote:

slavereeno wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:46 pm

Observation #2: Shut your pie hole Slavereeno, nobody want's to hear your church *stuff*

The dust has settled a little with family since the disclosure of my disaffection. Its OK to voice anything among the family, so long as it is positive towards the church or faith promoting. My comments are unwelcome and make everyone feel uncomfortable, please do not share them. I don't think anybody has given any thought that this could be a two way street and their gushing about Elder so and so make me feel uncomfortable. I realize that I need growth in this respect, and that it need to not bother me.

So I sit and stew inside and get more bitter, or come here and lurk.

Weed helps

Can confirm.

“Steve” wrote: Weed helps

Wait, weed for my family, or weed for me? Cause weed for them would defiantly help.

slavereeno wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:12 pm

. . . weed for my family . . . ? Cause weed for them would defiantly help.

Brownies, anyone? They taste delicious! Only one small one per person, please.


After I discovered Not Your Father's Root Beer, I thought it would be fun to spike a ward party - like this: offer to bring root beer. Half is regular root beer. Half is NYFRB. Mix together. Give it only to the adults (best if it's an adults only party).

Random wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:43 pm

After I discovered Not Your Father's Root Beer, I thought it would be fun to spike a ward party - like this: offer to bring root beer. Half is regular root beer. Half is NYFRB. Mix together. Give it only to the adults (best if it's an adults only party).

Best ward party ever, we all feel the spirit, a sense of calm and peace.