Houston we have a problem !

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
Mackman
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Houston we have a problem !

Post by Mackman » Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:57 am

As many of you know I felt compelled during my F.C. to leave the church , I did so for 18 months. I returned last Jan (rebaptism all of that) at the urging/ forcing of my wife of 41 years. Upon my returning to church I am not allowed to hold Any priesthood or any former temple ordinances for the 1st year . So we are fast approaching the 1 year mark, Jan 25th. I will then be able to have all former priesthood and temple ordinances restored by a general authority. The problem is that I feel like the worthiness interview is problematic. I have developed a Real problem with another person judging my "worthiness " . I dont feel like I should even need to be interviewed or anyone else should be for that matter for any temple or church offices . My worthiness should be judged by God only !!! He knows whats in my heart no one else!!!!! Not sure what to do as the day of reckoning is fast approaching. What say the Nomies ?????

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Palerider
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Palerider » Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:34 pm

Sounds like you're reaping the fruit of allowing your wife to "force" you back into the church. Extracting yourself from those consequences may be even more painful than your original disengagement.

One possible alternative might be to just state that you're simply not interested in holding any calling or going to the temple. You could say, "You don't feel ready for that responsibility." Which takes the power away from the church to determine your readiness and returns it where it belongs, which is to you. You have let someone else coerce you into doing something you really didn't want to do before. Are you going to continue that trend? Or will you in essence say, "I'm doing this on my own terms."

Which term you can make as "never" if you want.

This may not make your wife "happy" but remember a good marriage is where both people are fairly happy. Not just one.

When I initially left the church, my Bishop called me in because I had allowed my TR to expire. He asked if I wanted an interview. I stated plainly that I wasn't interested in pursuing a temple recommend at that time. He asked if there was anything I'd like to discuss and I said "No" but thanks.

It takes away all their power and gives it back to you when you tell them you don't want what they're selling. 8-)
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

Wonderment
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Wonderment » Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:18 pm

It takes away all their power and gives it back to you when you tell them you don't want what they're selling.
That's correct. Don't live a lie, just in order to please your wife. Set a personal boundary that embraces your beliefs and your conscience.You don't have to give up everythng you are as a person in order to have a happy marriage. That's not what marriage is about, IMO. -- Wndr.

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2bizE
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by 2bizE » Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:26 pm

I’ve struggled with the same worthiness concept as well. Worthiness is so arbitrary. It is just invented. Here is how I look at it. When you go into a worthiness interview, it is like going on the set of “Who’s line is it anyway”. Drew Carey is like the interviewer. He pulls a topic out of a hat and gives points to the actors. The points are pointless and matter for nothing. It is all a game, and whatever you say doesn’t really matter. So, play the game and get what you need in life...
~2bizE

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alas
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by alas » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:14 am

I agree with you. Nobody but you and God has a right to judge your worthiness.

So, what are you going to do? You made a compromise with your wife to continue attending church. Did the compromise include having a temple recommend? Or was that not part of the agreement? If it was not part of the agreement, then don’t get a temple recommend. Just tell the bishop that you want to just be active and see how that works for you. Or tell him that you made a compromise with your wife to attend church but that doesn’t make you a believer. Or just do nothing unless he asks, then say, no thanks.

If your wife includes the temple recommend as part of the compromise, you can always be just as honest with the church as it has been with you about the real history of the church. You don’t owe the church any more honesty than it give you about it’s financials.

But ultimately you have to decide. What is your priority? Some NOMs keep a temple recommend to keep their spouse happy. I see nothing wrong with that. They love their spouse more than they hate the church. Others, well maybe we have different spouses. If your top priority is personal integrity, then maybe it is time to stand up more to your wife and let the consequences happen. If your top priority is a peaceful household, maybe you can just tell the bishop and SP what they want to hear. If somebody has the arrogance to think he has a right to judge me, then I have no problem telling him whatever I need to in order to live my life. It is your life, live it in the way you feel best about. There is no perfect solution when a cult has hooks into your family

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MoPag
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by MoPag » Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:30 am

I'm one of those NOMs that keep a TR. I don't even have a spouse. I just want to so I do it. F--k the church. There are several threads about nuance-ing your way through the TR interview. At it's core the church is a rotten, corrupt organization. You owe them nothing. You do you and more power to you.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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Red Ryder
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:04 pm

God here.

Mack, you are worthy! Do what you got to do but know that I’m not judging you and never have. I know some of my more crazy religious children on earth tend to think they are in charge and pass judgement in my name for their financial, egotistical, or religious gain. I’ll fry their asses later and boy will they be surprised when they come through my sick mansion’s pearly gates! I hope they don’t try their stupid secret handshakes because my security staff really gets weirded out by that. Take care, Mack you’re a good guy and your balls are starting to grow back. Own them, they were created after my image. :lol:
MoPag wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:30 am
I'm one of those NOMs that keep a TR. I don't even have a spouse. I just want to so I do it. F--k the church. There are several threads about nuance-ing your way through the TR interview. At it's core the church is a rotten, corrupt organization. You owe them nothing. You do you and more power to you.
My dear Mo,

Godly hugs to you! Enjoy the temple if you decide to go. I didn’t create or write any part of that atrocious of a movie, but it is entertaining (especially if you drink a few of those wonderful grape juices that make you tipsy or a nice margarita before you go). Next time you’re there, just remember that handsome bearded man in the white robe looks just like me. They did get the casting right! :lol:
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Palerider
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Palerider » Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:10 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:04 pm
God here.
Doctor walks into the psychiatric ward and says, "Hi Bob! How are you doing today?"

Bob says, "I'm NOT Bob! My name is Napoleon Bonaparte!"

Doctor says, "Who told you, you were Napoleon Bonaparte?"

Bob says, "God did!"

A voice two beds down says, "I did NOT!"

8-)
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

Mackman
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Mackman » Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:47 pm

Well after much thought I have decided to go ahead and accept full membership again. It means nothing to me but as stated I love my wife more than I hate the church !!! I am comfortable lying to a church that sits on $100 billion dollars while others starve. I am thankful that my own personal belief is known and understood by God as he knows whats in my heart. I am going to pray everyday that my wife will one day see the church for what it is a corrupt organization with doctrine made up by old white dudes who have one foot in the grave and are out of touch with reality !!! I am a Nomie for life and very thankful for all of you. In case you are not familiar with my story One year ago I almost ended it all with the barrel of a gun in my mouth , I was broke unemployed and had just had enough with life . Today Im in a much better place thanks to all of you !!! I really mean that.

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Newme
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Newme » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:38 pm

Palerider wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:10 pm
Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:04 pm
God here.
Doctor walks into the psychiatric ward and says, "Hi Bob! How are you doing today?"

Bob says, "I'm NOT Bob! My name is Napoleon Bonaparte!"

Doctor says, "Who told you, you were Napoleon Bonaparte?"

Bob says, "God did!"

A voice two beds down says, "I did NOT!"

8-)
:lol:
Did the voice 2 beds down have the initials RN?

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Newme
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Newme » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:45 pm

Mackman wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:47 pm
Well after much thought I have decided to go ahead and accept full membership again. It means nothing to me but as stated I love my wife more than I hate the church !!! I am comfortable lying to a church that sits on $100 billion dollars while others starve. I am thankful that my own personal belief is known and understood by God as he knows whats in my heart. I am going to pray everyday that my wife will one day see the church for what it is a corrupt organization with doctrine made up by old white dudes who have one foot in the grave and are out of touch with reality !!! I am a Nomie for life and very thankful for all of you. In case you are not familiar with my story One year ago I almost ended it all with the barrel of a gun in my mouth , I was broke unemployed and had just had enough with life . Today Im in a much better place thanks to all of you !!! I really mean that.
It’s not easy & I agree this place and other similar support groups help a lot. I’m glad you’re doing so much better. We’re here for you.

Tonight, after a beating-my-head-against-a-brick-wall discussion with my (BPD) TBM mom, I prayed and searched “move on” which is what I want to do. This song came up - I think it’s my new favorite... it can apply to spouses too regarding this interfaith thing - take the higher road.

“Hush now child and don't you cry
Your folks might understand you by and by
So in the mean time, move on up towards your destination
Though you may find from time to time complications

Bite your lip and take a trip
Though there may be wet road ahead
And you cannot slip so what you wanna do
Just move on up for peace you will find
Into the steeple of beautiful people where there's only one kind

So hush now child and don't you cry
Your folks might understand you by and by
So what are we wanna do is move on up for a greater day
But just you gonna make it, you put your mind to it, you can surely do it

Take nothing less than the supreme best
Do not obey for most people say 'cause you can past the test
So what we have to do is move on up and keep on wishing
Remember your dream is your only scheme so keep on pushing

So hush now child and don't you cry
Your folks might understand you by and by
Move on up for a greater day but just you gonna make it
You put your mind to it, you can surely do it
Move on up, we can to move on up
Move on up, move on child I wanna move on up
We can to move on up, we can to move on up...”

https://youtu.be/xGR9bQh-kpk

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Angel
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Angel » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:06 am

Hey, I'm in Houston! I'm heading the other way, just posted on fb I no longer identify myself as Mormon - that faith should be in God, not faith on a church, best to skip any middle-men.

It's all between you and God - you answer the tr questions, not the interviewer. You call yourself worthy or not..

Of course no one is worthy, we are all fallen, those questions always made me squirm -

"Are you perfect?" and you are supposed to answer "yes, I am perfect" Haha, I mean really???
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

Mackman
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Mackman » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:26 am

I have a rare day off church due to ice here in Michigan. I know I said I was ready to return to full church membership just for my wife but I am still uncomfortable with that decision !!!! I listened to a catholic priest on you tube recently that said "if you are uncomfortable with your decision than it's not the right one for you " what do the nomies think ?

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alas
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by alas » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:19 am

Mackman wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:26 am
I have a rare day off church due to ice here in Michigan. I know I said I was ready to return to full church membership just for my wife but I am still uncomfortable with that decision !!!! I listened to a catholic priest on you tube recently that said "if you are uncomfortable with your decision than it's not the right one for you " what do the nomies think ?
I think that you waffling is doing both you and your spouse more harm than if you just made a decision that you can live with and stuck to it.

See the decision you can stick to is the problem you are having. You don’t want to break your wife’s heart, and you don’t want to live a lie. Leaving the church will break your wife’s heart. Living a lie will eventually break you. My attitude is that your wife’s heart will mend, either by leaving you or by accepting who you really are. But your soul, man, I don’t see how you mend your soul while living a lie. But that is just me imagining I am in your situation, which granted, I have been and of course I think my solution is best because my husband choose to stay with me even as an apostate. But you have to figure out what works for you.

So, first, let’s examine being a member in good standing in the church. Some people can be happy while living a lie. Our Cheeto in Chief is an example of someone who seems to be quite happy with no integrity. But you keep agreeing to fully living church rules, then hitting “I can’t stand this.” That tells me that you are too honest for living a lie. Sorry, but that is the impression I keep getting. So, I am just telling you what I see here. You keep promising that you can live the way the church demands, and then you hit the point that the idea of lying all the time just sort of makes you sick.

Now, your wife is going to see just the opposite. She is going to see a man who is too weak to live “the way he should,” because she doesn’t realize that she is asking *you* to live a lie. For her it isn’t a lie. It is how she should live. But you see different things than she does. You know stuff she doesn’t. So, her asking *you* to live how *she* should live, is asking you to live a lie. Your job to explain all this to her. But by waffling back and forth, you are just convincing her over and over that you are too weal to live how you should live. You reinforce her thinking that you *should* live that way every time you agree to it. You are essentially telling her you agree with her that you should live that way. Think about that. By agreeing to do what she wants, you are telling her she is correct that the church is true and you know you should live it.

Is that really how you want to live?

Let’s examine the other option. Worst case scenario, she leaves you. You cry for months, you pound the wall and curse the church. Then you heal, then get on with your life and statistically you are more likely to remarry and remarry happily than she is, especially her finding Peter Priesthood to marry her. So, in two years, you are happily married to a sexy never Mo, and she is attending the singles church stuff, still lonely and wondering if she did the right thing by leaving you. Hmmmmm, doesn’t sound that bad to me.

Mackman
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Mackman » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:45 am

Alas. You are soooooooo spot on !!! I need to somehow find a way forward that I can live with.

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moksha
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by moksha » Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:41 pm

F.C.?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Palerider
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Palerider » Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:42 pm

moksha wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:41 pm
F.C.?
Faith crisis.

I'm thinkin' 8-)
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

Mackman
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Mackman » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:18 am

********Super super update******* I have decided to much credit to alas to not cross the line of having my priesthood and temple ordinances restored !!! Being a member is as far as I am willing to go , so I dont have to say prayers, pass sacrament. Speak etc etc etc eventually I would like to find my way to biblical christianity but am willing to pause here for now. Much credit to Corsair to in another post filling me in on how he does the fake part. I just am not able to give up all integrity and I dont want to live like that and I just can't. I guess let the chips fall where they may in the future . Thanks to my nomie community !!!!!!

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fetchface
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by fetchface » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:43 am

I think that was a good choice. If you go with their program, they are just going to try to get you to do more and more. Next thing you know, they want you to be EQP or something like that.

There was a moment in my FC when tensions were high with the wife and I just decided that my wife was either going to accept me for who I am or she wasn't, but that I was going to give her the chance to know me and make that choice. If she decided that she didn't love me, then I would leave her and find someone who would. Now, it worked out well for me. I think that she sensed that she had no leverage and had some friends give her great advice at the time (I can't thank them enough). But it just as easily could have ended in divorce. This church creates monsters sometimes who will destroy their family in the name of saving it. It is truly bizarre.

I still attend sacrament meeting every week with my wife because I know that time is important to her and I can experience 1hr/wk of boredom if it is special for her, but I'm in total control of how I interact with the church, which is pretty much confined to 1hr per week plus the occasional ward activity.
Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
My blog: http://untanglingmybrain.blogspot.com/

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:25 pm

fetchface wrote:I think that was a good choice. If you go with their program, they are just going to try to get you to do more and more. Next thing you know, they want you to be EQP or something like that.

There was a moment in my FC when tensions were high with the wife and I just decided that my wife was either going to accept me for who I am or she wasn't, but that I was going to give her the chance to know me and make that choice. If she decided that she didn't love me, then I would leave her and find someone who would. Now, it worked out well for me. I think that she sensed that she had no leverage and had some friends give her great advice at the time (I can't thank them enough). But it just as easily could have ended in divorce. This church creates monsters sometimes who will destroy their family in the name of saving it. It is truly bizarre.

I still attend sacrament meeting every week with my wife because I know that time is important to her and I can experience 1hr/wk of boredom if it is special for her, but I'm in total control of how I interact with the church, which is pretty much confined to 1hr per week plus the occasional ward activity.
Fetchface, I am in the same position as you, still doing the 1 hour thing as a way to keep the peace and help wrestle kids so she isn't an abandoned widow in sacrament meeting. How did you handle the garment transition? For me that has been one of the last hurdles.

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