Houston we have a problem !

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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fetchface
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by fetchface » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:36 pm

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:25 pm
Fetchface, I am in the same position as you, still doing the 1 hour thing as a way to keep the peace and help wrestle kids so she isn't an abandoned widow in sacrament meeting. How did you handle the garment transition? For me that has been one of the last hurdles.
I was quite furious with the church and focused on my own feelings pretty early on in the process and I just quit wearing them one day. My wife was really upset by how suddenly I quit wearing them. I was caught off guard by how upset she was since I was so focused myself at the time. It is probably my one regret in all that. I wish I had just given her a simple heads-up and said something like, "Just so you know, I'm about to stop wearing garments" before doing it.

The truth is, the garments just made me so angry that I couldn't stand wearing them another instant. I just wish I had communicated better.
Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
My blog: http://untanglingmybrain.blogspot.com/

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Red Ryder
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:38 pm

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:25 pm
fetchface wrote:I think that was a good choice. If you go with their program, they are just going to try to get you to do more and more. Next thing you know, they want you to be EQP or something like that.

There was a moment in my FC when tensions were high with the wife and I just decided that my wife was either going to accept me for who I am or she wasn't, but that I was going to give her the chance to know me and make that choice. If she decided that she didn't love me, then I would leave her and find someone who would. Now, it worked out well for me. I think that she sensed that she had no leverage and had some friends give her great advice at the time (I can't thank them enough). But it just as easily could have ended in divorce. This church creates monsters sometimes who will destroy their family in the name of saving it. It is truly bizarre.

I still attend sacrament meeting every week with my wife because I know that time is important to her and I can experience 1hr/wk of boredom if it is special for her, but I'm in total control of how I interact with the church, which is pretty much confined to 1hr per week plus the occasional ward activity.
Fetchface, I am in the same position as you, still doing the 1 hour thing as a way to keep the peace and help wrestle kids so she isn't an abandoned widow in sacrament meeting. How did you handle the garment transition? For me that has been one of the last hurdles.
I’m in a similar position but currently 2 hour church as we teach a fun aged primary class together and do more arts and crafts then lessons from the manual. I figure that if I was catholic or some other brand I would be sitting next to my family on a different pew so I can tolerate an hour of SM while on my phone then go do fun stuff and head home. I can be Mormon for 2 hours once a week and then plan an excused absence once a month and have fun family weekend activities.

In regards to garments, it’s no secret around here that I hate the things. I stopped wearing them over time. First the bottoms and then the tops altogether. The wife at first was bothered but overtime has adjust fine. Women tend to think not wearing garments is equal to infidelity.

My suggestion echos that of Fetch. Make your choices and decisions then let the consequences fall where they fall. Then love your spouse more than you hate the church.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

Reuben
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Reuben » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:39 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:38 pm
I’m in a similar position but currently 2 hour church as we teach a fun aged primary class together and do more arts and crafts then lessons from the manual.
You mean like Jupiter talisman coloring pages and making paper dolls of Joseph Smith's wives?
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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wtfluff
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by wtfluff » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:32 pm

Reuben wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:39 pm
You mean like Jupiter talisman coloring pages and making paper dolls of Joseph Smith's wives?
Paper Dolls!?!?!? Absolutely brilliant! Along with finding their own seer-stones on church-grounds, making paper "translation" hats, and practicing "translating", you could get 6-9 months of lessons taken care of. :mrgreen:
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

Kishkumen
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Kishkumen » Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:16 am

Requesting an update now that Jan 25 has passed.

Mackman
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Mackman » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:26 am

So far so good have not crossed the line yet of restoration of priesthood and temple ordinances. However I have not had the courage to bring it up again just dodging it for now.

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Corsair
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Corsair » Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:42 am

Mackman wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:26 am
So far so good have not crossed the line yet of restoration of priesthood and temple ordinances. However I have not had the courage to bring it up again just dodging it for now.
This is not a fair situation. I entirely respect that you want to simply be part of your faith group. The overt support of historicity and exclusive truth is a challenging emotional proposition for you. Your leaders may or may not hold you to explicit theological positions.

Meanwhile, I remain an inveterate liar and don't pay tithing and never bring up Joseph Smith in a positive light. Yet, I reap all the functional benefits of the institutional LDS church just because I was, and continue to be, willing to to sacrifice the truth as they know it. And the church continues to simply not know that I am playing this game.

Good luck, Mackman! I truly hope that full engagement with the LDS church brings about everything you want.

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2bizE
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by 2bizE » Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:48 pm

Mackman wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:26 am
So far so good have not crossed the line yet of restoration of priesthood and temple ordinances. However I have not had the courage to bring it up again just dodging it for now.
How are priesthood blessings restored? Is there an ordinance or somebody just says so?
~2bizE

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Palerider
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Palerider » Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:13 pm

2bizE wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:48 pm
Mackman wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:26 am
So far so good have not crossed the line yet of restoration of priesthood and temple ordinances. However I have not had the courage to bring it up again just dodging it for now.
How are priesthood blessings restored? Is there an ordinance or somebody just says so?
I believe there is a "restoration of blessings" ordinance which includes Melchizedek priesthood. Then if you're a good boy for a period of time they (1st Pres.) call SP and tell him your previous rank has been restored (high priest, whatever).
Something like this if I recall.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

Mackman
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Mackman » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:28 am

Yes, what palerider said is the way it goes. A 1 year waiting period and all is restored by a general authority. Blah blah blah.

Mackman
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Mackman » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:03 am

Well. Nomies the day of reckoning has arrived this sunday !!!!!!!! I must meet with the stake Pres. Concerning the restoration of priesthood and temple ordinances. What will I do ??????? Do I cave or stand tall as a man that has integrity???? One part of me wants to fake it to keep the peace and another part of me wants to have integrity. If I tell the truth it gets me out of it. I like coffee think the bom is fiction and the twelve a bunch of white racist dudes ! !!!!! Or fake it all is well in my home I believe or want to believe my home is a piece of heaven on earth blah blah blah !!! What to do how to make this final decision?

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fetchface
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by fetchface » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:59 am

I can't tell you what you should do, that's something you are going to have to decide for yourself.

I can share my experience, however. I had a moment of clarity in my disaffection process where I realized that if I pretended to go with the program so that people would love me, then they really wouldn't be loving me. They would be loving someone I was pretending to be. I decided that I needed and deserved to be loved, not as a fake version of me, but the real me.

The thought occurred to me that maybe my wife would reject me. This thought was almost unbearable to me but deep down I knew that I would be able to make it through a separation and divorce and eventually find someone who would love the real me if she couldn't love me.

Luckily, that didn't happen in my case. I think that things really turned a corner for us when I stopped the impulse to try to get her to leave the church and focused on "do you love me or not?"

It is an option to frame things similarly with the church. "I don't believe in the BoM and I don't sustain the prophets, do you want me to have the priesthood and temple recommend? Do you love me as I am, or do you only want me if I am somebody different?"
Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
My blog: http://untanglingmybrain.blogspot.com/

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:35 am

I agree with fetchface. While authenticity won't solve all your problems and in some cases will cause a few more, the mental health aspect and self respect benefits are worth it in my opinion. But everyone's circumstances are different and you have to weigh the benefits on your own scale.

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1smartdodog
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by 1smartdodog » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:17 am

I find it rather easy to go to church when i feel like it. Only do callings i feel like. Attend the ward parties and such. No tithing.

You only have to be willing to give up a temple recommend and the church becomes much easier. If you want to have a recommend you are forced to believe or lie. In my mind neither is an option so I choose no recommend. Much easier that way. Is my family happy with that? Not really but it is the best alternative.


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“Five percent of the people think; ten percent of the people think they think; and the other eighty-five percent would rather die than think.”
― Thomas A. Edison

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Palerider
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Palerider » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:21 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:35 am
I agree with fetchface. While authenticity won't solve all your problems and in some cases will cause a few more, the mental health aspect and self respect benefits are worth it in my opinion. But everyone's circumstances are different and you have to weigh the benefits on your own scale.
This.

Do what is right. Let the consequence follow.

Just think of it. You'll be obeying a principle that the church leadership espouses but can't/doesn't live themselves.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Linked
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Linked » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:26 pm

Mackman wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:03 am
Well. Nomies the day of reckoning has arrived this sunday !!!!!!!! I must meet with the stake Pres. Concerning the restoration of priesthood and temple ordinances. What will I do ??????? Do I cave or stand tall as a man that has integrity???? One part of me wants to fake it to keep the peace and another part of me wants to have integrity. If I tell the truth it gets me out of it. I like coffee think the bom is fiction and the twelve a bunch of white racist dudes ! !!!!! Or fake it all is well in my home I believe or want to believe my home is a piece of heaven on earth blah blah blah !!! What to do how to make this final decision?
Is cancelling the meeting and not rescheduling an option? You can stand tall as a man without telling the SP anything about your love of coffee or your opinion of the quorum of the twelve. Telling him, or his secretary, "I am not going to be able to make our scheduled meeting, this is not something I am planning to do at this time. I'll let you know." can be very empowering.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Red Ryder
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:42 pm

Just quit.

Life is too short to play the hokey pokey!

Here’s what will happen:
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

Mackman
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Mackman » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:27 am

Thanks Linked !!! I did just that cancelled without rescheduling!!! It seemed to be the easiest thing to do !!

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Linked
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Re: Houston we have a problem !

Post by Linked » Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:16 am

Mackman wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:27 am
Thanks Linked !!! I did just that cancelled without rescheduling!!! It seemed to be the easiest thing to do !!
Way to take your power!
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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