Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

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Newme
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by Newme » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:49 pm

blazerb wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:17 pm
I have been trying to come up with reasons why the church would build up such a huge reserve. As noted, it can't be used in the millenium. The run up to Armageddon would also certainly lead to the fund being useless. Even a severe economic downturn would decimate the reserve leaving it virtually useless. The only purpose I can see is that its interest can be used to keep funds coming in as tithing decreases. I think the existence of this fund implies that the highest leadership knows that tithing is drying up. They want to keep their operation functioning even if there are very few tithe-paying members keeping the temples open.

If anyone has some other purpose, I would love to hear it.
Maybe... and this is speculating... some of those controlling funds are tied to those who want a one-world government through religion...

“Zbigniew Brzezinski, former National Security Advisor and Trilateral Commision insider, advised his Illuminati superiors that the New World Order can be established only be employing religion as a key weapon of global influence.”
http://www.texemarrs.com/012005/illumin ... infamy.htm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

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moksha
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by moksha » Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:59 am

Tacenda wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:09 am
It will make the believer despise the members that speak up. It will further divide the non believers and the believers.
Waiting for the new testimonies to show up on Fast Sundays proclaiming, "I believe the Corporation is true".
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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mufflerman
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by mufflerman » Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:02 am

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:25 pm
Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:41 am
The full article is on archive.org.
https://web.archive.org/web/20190429193 ... es-support
This is very telling.
...Vice President Mohadi had made a specific request for support with the development of clean-water wells in more remote areas of Zimbabwe.

“We want to help in every way we can,” said Elder Andersen. “We are not a wealthy people but we are good people, and we share what we have,” he added...

Elder Andersen also shared with Vice President Mohadi news that the Church planned to begin construction of the Harare Temple in late 2019, an edifice that will bring special blessings to the people of Zimbabwe.
Not wealthy enough to dig wells but wealthy enough to build temples which require attendees to pay 10% of their meager income to a corporation that's sitting on more than $100 billion.

I wonder what Jesus would do?

Does anyone know if the church provided any help on getting clean water for Zimbabwe? "We share what we have" suggests that they could have solved the entire problem with the snap of their finders. I would feel better if I could learn that they raised one (finger, that is).

ETA: I can find plenty of references online to the church doing missionary outreach in Zimbabwe but nothing about helping with their water concerns. I also found claims on the church's philanthropies site that they are providing clean water to poor countries all over the world. Interestingly, Zimbabwe is not one of those countries:
https://www.ldsphilanthropies.org/human ... ean-water
Also, when you click on the More Information link you see that this is really a website for soliciting funds. All this link does is explain why you can't give to a specific cause, but only contribute to the Humanitarian Fund in general...
https://www.ldsphilanthropies.org/human ... -charities
...the same fund that the tithing slip now includes in money that belongs to the church to do with as they damn well please.

No doubt much good is done with (some of) the money from this fund. I have known people who have gone on wheelchair distributing missions, but I don't believe they are using donations from the church, it is money that the church is soliciting apart from all of the wealth they have accumulated and, of course, all of the labor is donated. A big part of those missions seems to be finding donors to fund the projects with their own charitable giving. And good for them. The leadership could learn something about giving from their members.
Let's not forget that the church does not use local labor to build these as well, they use their own Utah based contractors. I have a relative who travels on these projects. So spending big money on a temple keeps that big money with the the 'right' people. Just the left hand feeding the right hand.

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2bizE
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by 2bizE » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:04 am

Newme wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:33 pm
jfro18 wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:00 pm
Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:16 pm
Let’s forget about this for a second.

What new policy or much needed change will be released to shift attention away?

Please... no garments! no garments! No garments!!!!!!
FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD, YES PLEASE.

Garments are the worst part of Mormonism and a constant reminder of the control they hold over you and those you love.

And they are ugly as sin.
How weird to know what each other’s underwear looks like. :lol: Where else could you take a chapel full of people and they all have the same underwear? We all look goofy and know we all do... or did - for those of us who ditched them. This cult is funny when it isn’t heart-breaking.
You may have seen this funny joke posted on Reddit:
“4 LDS TBMs and 1 exmormon walk into a Victoria Secret.
The 4 TBM's say "We all should buy matching underwear".

The Ex Mormon says "You already have matching underwear".

Laughter all the way around

True story, happened in Las Vegas last weekend”.
~2bizE

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Red Ryder
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:22 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:55 pm
Perhaps they did help build water infrastructure in Zimbabwe. Not the church side of the house but the investment side aka EPA?

What if Andersen was meeting with the country leaders to work an investment deal under the guise of religion?

Promising investment loads, resources, etc in return for gain and profit?

Removing the Andersen quote doesn’t make any sense other than to hide the bad optics unless they were trying to hide a quite promising investment.

We can’t see the church making donations but anyway to see what types of investments were made in an emerging market like Zimbabwe?

What are they hiding by removing the quote?
Preliminary research shows the upside of investing in the Zimbabwe stock market.
The Zimbabwe Industrial Index increased 282 Points or 58.67% since the beginning of 2019, according to trading on a contract for difference (CFD) that tracks this benchmark index from Zimbabwe. Historically, the Zimbabwe Stock Market reached an all time high of 823.75 in November of 2019.
You don’t get to $100B by sitting on the sidelines or opening swigg, fizz, or other soda shops! Insurance companies and malls are just as bad investments! :lol:
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

Kishkumen
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by Kishkumen » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:48 am

why do they need that large of a Nest Egg?

Who knows? I know I'm trying to build my Nest Egg as large as possible. Admittedly, mine is missing 2 or 3 zeros in comparison. :lol:

It's frustrating - and what can be done about it? Not much, at least not quickly.

ExMo/Nom/Disaffected/Distant/JackMo/etc word will continue to grow. It's been 20 years +/- that the Post TBM mindset has taken hold and we've only put a small dent in the TSCC. They still grow each year.

There will not be a single linchpin to devastate the church. It is not a house of cards. But slow and methodical erosion will continue. I think the corporation knows this intrinsically. Not because they actually fear former TBM's but because everything needs maintenance.

Spicy McHaggis
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by Spicy McHaggis » Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:02 pm

Chuck the Furch!

A few days later and I'm still just as pissed.

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blazerb
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by blazerb » Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:21 pm

moksha wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:59 am
Tacenda wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:09 am
It will make the believer despise the members that speak up. It will further divide the non believers and the believers.
Waiting for the new testimonies to show up on Fast Sundays proclaiming, "I believe the Corporation is true".
I've already seen stuff online that amounts to, "I know that $100 billion is true."

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w2mz
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by w2mz » Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:24 pm

Spicy McHaggis wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:02 pm
Chuck the Furch!

A few days later and I'm still just as pissed.
Same here. It is so frustrating that I can’t just say “F” it and leave the church. My family is so indoctrinated. Its not right that the church can hold my family and my finances hostage.

Just fuming.
The church has engineered your eternal family into a commodity that can be purchased with an annual fee. The fact that full tithing payment is a requirement for saving ordinances is the biggest red flag imaginable. Hagoth

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Red Ryder
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:28 pm

w2mz wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:24 pm
Spicy McHaggis wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:02 pm
Chuck the Furch!

A few days later and I'm still just as pissed.
Same here. It is so frustrating that I can’t just say “F” it and leave the church. My family is so indoctrinated. Its not right that the church can hold my family and my finances hostage.

Just fuming.
New strategy:
Honey, we’ve paid in our fair share of the $100B tithing foundation and future donations will be paid out of our share of that investment income!

This way we can be prudent like the church and build our “second coming rainy day” foundation!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Just This Guy
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by Just This Guy » Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:00 pm

It does really make you wonder if there will be a noticeable change in tithing revenue. While TBM's may not want to admit it, the temptation to go easy on tithing is a lot easier to give into now. Basically everyone now knows that the line about the church needing the money is false.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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Hagoth
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by Hagoth » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:12 pm

They will probably start emphasizing more that the purpose of tithing is for the blessings it brings you. It's not about money at all, you know, it's about obedience and the joy of sacrifice.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Angel
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by Angel » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:48 am

Hagoth wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:12 pm
They will probably start emphasizing more that the purpose of tithing is for the blessings it brings you. It's not about money at all, you know, it's about obedience and the joy of sacrifice.
I used to imagine the good my donations were doing... why did I not notice the numbers before?

Church averages $40 million/year humanitarian donations... has around 16 million members so... 40/16= $2.50 per person per year?

Am I crunching numbers correctly? I donated thousands each year, and only $2.50 was donated to the needy?
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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w2mz
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by w2mz » Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:32 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:28 pm
w2mz wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:24 pm
Spicy McHaggis wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:02 pm
Chuck the Furch!

A few days later and I'm still just as pissed.
Same here. It is so frustrating that I can’t just say “F” it and leave the church. My family is so indoctrinated. Its not right that the church can hold my family and my finances hostage.

Just fuming.
New strategy:
Honey, we’ve paid in our fair share of the $100B tithing foundation and future donations will be paid out of our share of that investment income!

This way we can be prudent like the church and build our “second coming rainy day” foundation!
Like.

Over on reddit a couple of commenters mentioned a statement from Joesph F. Smith to the effect that he envisioned a day when the church would be funded to the extent where it would be self sustaining and contributions from members would no longer be needed. Does anyone have that actual reference? I am thinking about using that for a new round of tithing negotiations with RW. Thanks!

Still really bothered by this.
The church has engineered your eternal family into a commodity that can be purchased with an annual fee. The fact that full tithing payment is a requirement for saving ordinances is the biggest red flag imaginable. Hagoth

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:34 am

w2mz wrote:
Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:28 pm
w2mz wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:24 pm
Same here. It is so frustrating that I can’t just say “F” it and leave the church. My family is so indoctrinated. Its not right that the church can hold my family and my finances hostage.

Just fuming.
New strategy:
Honey, we’ve paid in our fair share of the $100B tithing foundation and future donations will be paid out of our share of that investment income!

This way we can be prudent like the church and build our “second coming rainy day” foundation!
Like.

Over on reddit a couple of commenters mentioned a statement from Joesph F. Smith to the effect that he envisioned a day when the church would be funded to the extent where it would be self sustaining and contributions from members would no longer be needed. Does anyone have that actual reference? I am thinking about using that for a new round of tithing negotiations with RW. Thanks!

Still really bothered by this.
https://archive.org/stream/conferencere ... 7/mode/2up

Page 7

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w2mz
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by w2mz » Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:42 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:34 am
w2mz wrote:
Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:28 pm


New strategy:
Honey, we’ve paid in our fair share of the $100B tithing foundation and future donations will be paid out of our share of that investment income!

This way we can be prudent like the church and build our “second coming rainy day” foundation!
Like.

Over on reddit a couple of commenters mentioned a statement from Joesph F. Smith to the effect that he envisioned a day when the church would be funded to the extent where it would be self sustaining and contributions from members would no longer be needed. Does anyone have that actual reference? I am thinking about using that for a new round of tithing negotiations with RW. Thanks!

Still really bothered by this.
https://archive.org/stream/conferencere ... 7/mode/2up

Page 7
Thank you FFM!
The church has engineered your eternal family into a commodity that can be purchased with an annual fee. The fact that full tithing payment is a requirement for saving ordinances is the biggest red flag imaginable. Hagoth

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w2mz
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by w2mz » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:01 am

“... we expect to see the day when we will not need to ask you for one dollar of donation for any purpose, except that which you volunteer to give of your own accord, because we will have tithes sufficient in the storehouse of the Lord to pay everything that is needful for the advancement of the kingdom of God.”
Kicker in bold.

Anticipated DW response: “How can we not pay, we need the blessings.”

Church wins every time.
The church has engineered your eternal family into a commodity that can be purchased with an annual fee. The fact that full tithing payment is a requirement for saving ordinances is the biggest red flag imaginable. Hagoth

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wtfluff
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by wtfluff » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:26 am

w2mz wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:01 am
“... we expect to see the day when we will not need to ask you for one dollar of donation for any purpose, except that which you volunteer to give of your own accord, because we will have tithes sufficient in the storehouse of the Lord to pay everything that is needful for the advancement of the kingdom of God.”
Kicker in bold.

Anticipated DW response: “How can we not pay, we need the blessings.”

Church wins every time.
Try and "experiment:" Document all of the "blessings" that you are receiving by paying cult dues. Stop paying cult dues for 6 months or a year, and then see which of those "blessings" go away.

(Yeah, I know... It more than likely won't work. One can dream, no?)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

We are secrets to each other

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Hagoth
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by Hagoth » Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:41 pm

There's an excellent interview with that author of the Letter to an IRS Director on Infants on thrones.

The church could cover its costs and still bank $1-2billion/year even without tithing.

He quotes an Ensign Peak employee speculating that the reason for sitting on that mountain of money is to bolster the testimonies of the Q15, as evidence of God's approval.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Whistle Blower Files IRS Complaint

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:02 pm

There was a good interview on radio west about this topic today. Doug Fabrizio interviewed a tax law professor who essentially said this is somewhat unprecedented in law and the worst case for the church is Ensign Peak Advisors loses their tax exempt status. Church itself wouldn't.

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