Taking off the garment

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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Emower
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Taking off the garment

Post by Emower » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:28 pm

I am curious tonight about the reasons people on this forum wear their garments if they still do. I do, I don't want to, but for some reason I am having a hard time taking them off. I do dread social confrontations that will arise from people knowing that I do not wear them anymore. I feel like there is more to it than that though, while I do not enjoy them I don't shy away from hard discussions with people. I don't know what exactly is preventing me from quitting the garment. Maybe this website is my quitting patch. It feels so final if I quit wearing them. Growing up and listening to parents talk about people who lost faith; it seemed that the attitude would change from one of consternation to one of hopelessness when they would say, "he/she has even stopped wearing their garments :shock: ." I suppose maybe I want to appear that I have an open mind and I don't want to be labeled as a hopeless? Maybe I want to hedge my bets subconsciously? I don't know, but it is so ridiculous that a church controls mine and my wife's underwear.
If you do wear them still, why? Would you take them off in a heartbeat if social pressure wasn't present or do your feelings run deeper?

I also have grief over how my wife feels about not "having the priesthood in the home." I have never enjoyed giving blessings so I was not the kind of husband who jumped at that opportunity. But the options was there for her. My son is currently hospitalized for asthma difficulties, and I couldn't provide that for her. She called a cousin and the missionaries to give him a blessing. I don't fault her for it, but it does make me sad that I can't provide something that she wants.

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trophywife26.2
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Re: Taking off the garment

Post by trophywife26.2 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:15 pm

I didn't continue to wear them for very long, but I had a really hard time actually getting rid of them/admitting I wouldn't be wearing them again.

For me, they represented acceptance of the community, but they also represented safety of a simpler belief. They represented a time when I could look to the church leadership for the answers to life's questions and not think too hard or look at the world too closely. Things happened for a reason. God was looking out for it all, keeping a balance of His plan on Earth and keeping justice between "good" and "evil". Letting go of the garments for me, meant truly letting go of those beliefs too.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you do. I know some people have found a good balance by wearing them less, like just wearing them to church or around family, but not to work or to the gym, etc.
Even if it's something disappointing, it's still better to know the truth. Because people can deal with disappointment. And once they've done that, they can feel that they have really grown. And that can be such a good feeling. -Fred Rogers

mossy back
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Re: Taking off the garment

Post by mossy back » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:29 pm

I wanted to comment about not being able to give a priesthood blessing to your son. When I was first going through my faith crisis, I was angry and rebellious. Because I had committed the unthinkable sin of asking to be released from ALL my callings in an effort to get some control of my own life, I had deemed myself unworthy of the priesthood.

I also had to stand by and watch as my home teachers gave my son a blessing before a serious operation. (by the way, the blessing did not help in the long run but that is another story) I felt so humiliated because now others knew something was 'wrong' with me. Really, I was the same person, same morals. I just could not do all the things the church required and keep my sanity. This was just part of the lessons I had to learn as I broke away from the church. I was lucky because my DW was really just going through the motions of activity in the church and eventually we are both out and are the better for it.

I will admit that it took 10 more years before I quit wearing garments, breaking the indoctrination of a lifetime is real and difficult. I just went slowly and one day I knew it was time to move on. I threw away all my garments and went and bought regular underwear. It was so freeing!

I hope this helps ....

country girl
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Re: Taking off the garment

Post by country girl » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:01 am

This may not help but I’ll tell you why I quit wearing garments. I believe in being respectful of other people’s beliefs. I was wearing garments and in my mind at the time they were just underwear (awful and ugly) but they were just underwear to me. I was having a conversation with my TBM sister-in-law and she was very disturbed by the people on the internet that were mocking the garment, selling them on e-bay, etc. She felt it was very disrespectful of something that she holds so sacred. At that point I realized I was doing the same thing. I wouldn’t wear any other religion’s sacred clothing so why was I wearing this one. I don’t believe in anything that the garment represents to the TBMs, so I felt like I was being a hypocrite wearing it. That night I took mine off and have not put them back on since. It’s almost been 10 years. I live in a VERY Mormon small community. I have never had anyone ask me why I wasn’t wearing garments. Frankly, my underwear choice is none of anyone’s business.

I will say that I have a husband who is almost on the same page as me so it wasn’t a big deal in my marriage to switch underwear (it helped if you know what I mean 8-) ).

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Taking off the garment

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:59 am

With a TBM wife, I feel I would be committing the ultimate disrespect to her and causing her emotional pain in abandoning the garment completely. I continue to gird my loins. A few things about my habits have changed though. I don't feel bad taking them off for any form of recreation even all day activities. I also can't stand having any part of them exposed anymore. I used to be ok with the crew necks being exposed with polo shirts. No more, it's too much of an expected cultural symbol in the morcor. All scoop necks. Instead of being a symbol of my relationship with God, it's now simply for my wife.

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Dravin
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Re: Taking off the garment

Post by Dravin » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:24 am

My wife in a fit of freak out demanded I hand over all finacial access under the ultimatum of divorce. While I was able to maintain enough control to not bite that hook in my anger* I allowed myself to refocus the need to respond in some manner into ditching the uniform of the organization I saw (and to be honest still do to some extend) as the motivator for both her freak out and the way it manifested. So I told her, "I'm going to the store first.", bought myself a set of boxers, and haven't had garments upon my body since.

Prior to that point though I kept them on. They were underwear, they were already paid for, and the wife would take it as a physical signal of what she already knew (but without that physical signal it's easier to exist in denial). So keeping them on was part inertia and part wave minimizing.

*Such a weird feeling wanting to do something with all of the emotion in you and having the intellectual part of your brain grabbing desperately for the reins and screaming, "Do not make any drastic decisions right now!"
Last edited by Dravin on Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:50 am, edited 3 times in total.
Hindsight is all well and good... until you trip.

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FoundMyOwnWay
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Re: Taking off the garment

Post by FoundMyOwnWay » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:42 am

I still wear mine as well, but I look forward to the day when I can take them off for good and cast them down into the trash without even cutting off the oh so sacred stolen masonic symbols. I also find them uncomfortable as many have already posted. I would much rather be wearing a good pair of boxer briefs any day. However, right now my wife would likely completely freak out if I announced I was getting rid of my garments for good.

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Batman
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Re: Taking off the garment

Post by Batman » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:56 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:With a TBM wife, I feel I would be committing the ultimate disrespect to her and causing her emotional pain in abandoning the garment completely.
This

I would take them off immediately and not look back with no problem at all. I do take every opportunity to not wear them when I can though.

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glass shelf
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Re: Taking off the garment

Post by glass shelf » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:12 am

I took them off the day the LDS church decided to break with the sacredly secret nature of garments and plaster them all over FB. Just no to that. I kept those awful things secret for 15 years so that they could then break that sacred secrecy because it served them for PR? Nopes. I always hated them. I wore them through multiple pregnancies in the deep south, so I did my time. ;)

My husband took a lot longer to get rid of his. He saw them as just underwear. I thought about pushing the issue because it made me annoyed to see them, but I decided just to buy him some more regular underwear and stick them in the drawer instead. As soon as hot weather came back around, he ditched the garments and hasn't looked back. Everyone's different, and every relationship is different.

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Enoch Witty
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Re: Taking off the garment

Post by Enoch Witty » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:26 am

glass shelf wrote:I took them off the day the LDS church decided to break with the sacredly secret nature of garments and plaster them all over FB. Just no to that. I kept those awful things secret for 15 years so that they could then break that sacred secrecy because it served them for PR? Nopes. I always hated them. I wore them through multiple pregnancies in the deep south, so I did my time. ;)
What FB post was this??? I must see.

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wtfluff
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Re: Taking off the garment

Post by wtfluff » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:38 pm

Enoch Witty wrote:
glass shelf wrote:I took them off the day the LDS church decided to break with the sacredly secret nature of garments and plaster them all over FB. Just no to that. I kept those awful things secret for 15 years so that they could then break that sacred secrecy because it served them for PR? Nopes. I always hated them. I wore them through multiple pregnancies in the deep south, so I did my time. ;)
What FB post was this??? I must see.
Temple Garments

#gaslighttheworld
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Anon70
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Re: Taking off the garment

Post by Anon70 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:45 pm

I really appreciated reading everyone's comments on this thread. I never felt strongly about them or what they were supposed to represent. I guess I never had a testimony of garments. My dad faithfully wore his (one-piece!!) but my mom used to struggle to wear hers after she moved to the 2 piece. So I maybe that's why I never felt like 100% compliance was a big deal--she always was active and held a recommend. She's since become a super rabid uber TBM and never takes them off :(

I NEVER had comfortable garments. They never fit right. They never worked under my clothes. I felt dumpy and fat and unattractive in them. I hated them. I wore my tops faithfully for 20+ years. Near temple recommend renewal time I'd get to feeling guilty or shamed about having to answer the TR Questions honestly and I'd wear the bottoms for a few weeks/months. Two years ago when I read the LDS Essays and my shelf disintegrated :( I just stopped wearing them.

I'm lucky that my spouse considers this my choice (agency, anyone?) and never says a word about it and never guilts me, etc. I did buy him some gentile underwear and he now wears them occasionally but he is still TBM and goes right back to the Gs after whatever activity he wore the others for.

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Newme
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Re: Taking off the garment

Post by Newme » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:58 pm

For me, it was gradual.
Actually, occasionally I still wear them - but more like for an undershirt.
Initially, in the temple, the lady who explained them to me really got me paranoid - she explained in stressful detail how to treat them as holy - to never let them touch the ground, etc. Laundry became more stressful than it needed to be.

In the summer - when I was really hot - it became much more comfortable not to wear them - that helped.
I came to realize that garments are symbols - that point to something else - and depend greatly on the meaning given by whoever's wearing them or considering them. They are not that which they point to - they are just kind of like a reminder of the temple. And I came to see the temple as more about freemasonry and a sneaky way for church leaders to engage in priestcraft (charge for worthiness), though they are beautiful.
It also helped to get over feeling shamefully obligated to do many things church dictated - including what I wore.
Still, I wear modest clothes usually - because I know that people have, do and will judge me and my kids by my underwear. :shock: :lol:

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glass shelf
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Re: Taking off the garment

Post by glass shelf » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:33 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Enoch Witty wrote:
glass shelf wrote:I took them off the day the LDS church decided to break with the sacredly secret nature of garments and plaster them all over FB. Just no to that. I kept those awful things secret for 15 years so that they could then break that sacred secrecy because it served them for PR? Nopes. I always hated them. I wore them through multiple pregnancies in the deep south, so I did my time. ;)
What FB post was this??? I must see.
Temple Garments

#gaslighttheworld

Yes, that one. Worse when I think about the fact that a few people I know shared it with something like: "Here's all the things you've always wanted to know about my underwear..." Nope. I don't wonder about your creepy underwear.

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MoPag
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Re: Taking off the garment

Post by MoPag » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:40 pm

Okay, So I'm weird.

I actually like wearing them. I did try not wearing them for a while, but regular undies always give me wedgies. I never get wedgies with garms. Also it's nice to have an extra layer between my bra underwire and my boobs. Random underwire boob jabs are not fun. I did buy a spool of underwear elastic and, as soon as I get a free minute, I'm going to lower the waist lines to normal underwear waist height. Maybe I will start a black market, under ground, garment altering business. :twisted:
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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glass shelf
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Re: Taking off the garment

Post by glass shelf » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:50 pm

MoPag wrote:Okay, So I'm weird.

I actually like wearing them. I did try not wearing them for a while, but regular undies always give me wedgies. I never get wedgies with garms. Also it's nice to have an extra layer between my bra underwire and my boobs. Random underwire boob jabs are not fun. I did buy a spool of underwear elastic and, as soon as I get a free minute, I'm going to lower the waist lines to normal underwear waist height. Maybe I will start a black market, under ground, garment altering business. :twisted:
I will never understand, but more power to you. ;) Alter those babies to your heart's content. That's more subversive than just ditching them.

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shadow
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Re: Taking off the garment

Post by shadow » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:27 pm

It was gradual for me to ditch them, but only out of respect for my wife. Ironically, my faith crisis made the garments way more symbolic to me than they ever were during my full believing days. The more I learned about the history of the garment, about the connection of the temple to freemasonry, and particularly about how the secrecy of the temple and the garment went hand in hand with Joseph's inner circle secrecy regarding polygamy. Ultimately, garments came to represent to me a worship and symbol of polygamy and early church secrecy and gaslighting.

For a long time, I would try to go without the top during the warmer summer months. But, this was done with very strong competing desires. I wanted very much to be done with garments and what they had come to represent, but I also knew how well that decision would go over with my wife. I am embarrassed to admit that changing my clothes after work often resulted in a clean garment top being put in the dirty clothes so that there would be a match for that day's bottoms. I pushed the boundaries more and more and wasn't always successful at hiding it. This resulted in some heated discussions. In all honesty, wearing the garments was making me very unhappy. Eventually, my wife must have given up hope, and told me that if I really wanted to stop wearing garments, she wasn't going to say anything.

I really didn't have much issue with the form of garments. (I'm obviously a man.) I wear boxer shorts and wear an undershirt under dress shirts in the winter. I have definitely stopped wearing a white undershirt under T-shirts, though. We took the kids to Disneyland this past year and I couldn't help but remember the old John Larsen saying about picking out mormons at Disneyland by their double t-shirt attire. Very true.
"Healing is impossible in loneliness; it is the opposite of loneliness. Conviviality is healing. To be healed we must come with all the other creates to the feast of Creation." --Wendell Berry

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Red Ryder
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Re: Taking off the garment

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:06 pm

I took mine off a few years ago but kept wearing the t-shirt style tops under a dress shirt. I ditched the two t-shirt thing early.

The problem is not wearing G's announces to the mormon world your unworthiness. The Mormons judge harshly. It's really strange to get a call from your own mother when you're a grown adult and she's asking about the underwear you (don't) wear.

So silly.

I'd love some ideas to get the wife out of hers. Would it be too cruel to roll hers around in some attic insulation before folding them with the laundry?
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

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MerrieMiss
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Re: Taking off the garment

Post by MerrieMiss » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:11 pm

MoPag wrote:I did buy a spool of underwear elastic and, as soon as I get a free minute, I'm going to lower the waist lines to normal underwear waist height. Maybe I will start a black market, under ground, garment altering business. :twisted:
I thought of altering them at one point, but never got around to it. I have a TBM relative who alters hers, and asked me in a very hushed tone and in strictest confidence if it was okay to alter hers, because they keep falling apart. If it isn't enough that it's ugly and inconvenient and uncomfortable, it isn't even of very good quality.

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MerrieMiss
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Re: Taking off the garment

Post by MerrieMiss » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:16 pm

I don’t know as this will help at all. I think it’s different for women than for men and I no longer wear them. I did for a few years during/after my faith crisis when I wasn’t sure what I believed or what I wanted to do.

I rarely wore them every day, night and day, as a TBM. I had health issues, and even as a TBM, I thought it was ridiculous to expect me to wear them through those health problems. My husband agreed. I later found out that I was wearing them incorrectly, according to the handbook, since I wasn’t wearing both pieces, I was only wearing one. I thought that was stupid (for many reasons – I mean, I was wearing half of them and that was still frumpy and inconvenient, but the church only wanted me to wear them if I could wear both at the same time – why wear them at all?) so I stopped wearing them altogether when the health issues arose.

DH was okay with me only wearing half when I was unwell, but when I took them off and never went back, he still has problems with it. He thinks I lack integrity. We agree to disagree on that. For a few years I had some shame/guilt when folding my gentile laundry in front of my DH. I don’t have those problems anymore; instead, I don’t like folding his garments. I leave them in a basket for him to take care of.

After having kids and nursing, it was really easy to take them off and not put them back on. For about a year I wore them only on Sundays. Then I stopped completely and haven’t looked back. I felt like I went on the most amazing diet ever and lost ten pounds just by changing the type of underwear I wore. My self-image went up dramatically. I’m still active, have a TR, and a calling.

For me, it was very gradual and easy. That said, I haven’t thrown any of them away. They’re in a box up in the closet. I did get several pairs and put them in my drawer when my MIL watched the kids when DH and I took a vacation last year. I usually wear clothing that I could wear garments with; not always, but usually. If I feel the need to make people think I’m wearing them, I just wear a sweater or something thick where lines don’t show.

The only time I liked the garments was when I first got them, maybe for the first six months or first year. I hadn’t been TR worthy before that, so when I got them I really felt like I was good with god. But with the health issues (and feeling overweight every time I wore them even though I wasn’t), the “good with god” feeling wore off fairly soon.

I find it fascinating that something that was so easy for me is so difficult for others. I don’t talk about my disbelief with anyone. I haven’t been completely forthcoming with my husband. I shrink from difficult conversations. I still haven’t had a drink of alcohol. But getting rid of the garments? Easy! But then, I think that's easier for women in general because they are wrong for women in so many ways.

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