Rough Sunday

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Linked
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Rough Sunday

Post by Linked » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:30 pm

Well, I was released from primary a few weeks ago, but they wouldn't even let me enjoy it for the first week. I got a text from DW asking if I would mind helping her out because they don't have a team teacher for her yet. I wanted to take my power back and say no, I gave them 6 weeks to find someone else. But who am I hurting if I do that? I'm hurting DW, the nice lady down the street who happens to be primary president, and myself because DW will be hurt; and the BP won't even know and he's not a bad guy anyway. So I swore some to myself and then said of course I will help out. Hopefully they find someone soon. One of the kids in our class said he wanted the team teacher to be me; validation from a 9 year old is still validation...

In the lesson DW had a bunch of questions and answers. One of them was "How was the Book of Mormon created" with the answer of "It was translated from the Gold Plates". That had me reviewing the Gospel Topics Essay on the translation of the Book of Mormon real fast. I think I may run it past her.

Last and least, a 30-something man in the ward got up to bear his testimony and opened with, "For those of you who don't know me, I'm the Sunday School President." It was great. He didn't even share his name, just his title and how that makes him special and what he discovered in his specialness. The best part is that he hasn't yet figured out that Sunday School President is a nothing-calling, and that he thinks it is something worth opening with. So not only is he a douche-canoe, he doesn't even understand that his hubris is mis-placed.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Red Ryder
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Re: Rough Sunday

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:47 pm

Look, your letting them beat you with their mind games. Your supposed to be on your phone reading something fun or playing a mind. Inning game.

In regards to helping your wife I applaud you! Now, here’s what you need to do when helping her. Since this year is BOM and everyone’s knows it was translated using a hat, you need to make 2020 the year of the hat!

Every lesson should include some sort of hat craft project. Paper hats with fun sayings, paper crowns, any type of hat you can think of where the kids can make it and color it and more importantly wear it home!

Then the joke is on them! The kids will love it, you’ll be entertained, and parents and kids will think you’re the best teacher this side of the Mississippi!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Sheamus Moore
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Re: Rough Sunday

Post by Sheamus Moore » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:39 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:47 pm
Look, your letting them beat you with their mind games. Your supposed to be on your phone reading something fun or playing a mind. Inning game.

In regards to helping your wife I applaud you! Now, here’s what you need to do when helping her. Since this year is BOM and everyone’s knows it was translated using a hat, you need to make 2020 the year of the hat!

Every lesson should include some sort of hat craft project. Paper hats with fun sayings, paper crowns, any type of hat you can think of where the kids can make it and color it and more importantly wear it home!

Then the joke is on them! The kids will love it, you’ll be entertained, and parents and kids will think you’re the best teacher this side of the Mississippi!
LOL - I love it! Hey, grab a handful of polished rocks at the craft store for the kids too.

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2bizE
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Re: Rough Sunday

Post by 2bizE » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:48 pm

I’ve always wanted to show the South Park episode on the Book of Mormon to the youth to teach them about the BoM translation process. Anyone done that?
~2bizE

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wtfluff
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Re: Rough Sunday

Post by wtfluff » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:54 pm

Sheamus Moore wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:39 pm
LOL - I love it! Hey, grab a handful of polished rocks at the craft store for the kids too.
I vote for having the kids scour the chapel grounds and find rocks. Then they could use their paper hats and their magic rocks to practice "translating." Make sure to ask them to tell their parents all aboot it too.


2bizE wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:48 pm
I’ve always wanted to show the South Park episode on the Book of Mormon to the youth to teach them about the BoM translation process. Anyone done that?
I guess you could "legally" show that stupid gas-light-y "now you know" cartoon that LD$-Inc. created about seer stones. (And also point out how it is dishonest...)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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Hagoth
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Re: Rough Sunday

Post by Hagoth » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:22 pm

Pull an Uchtdorf and tell them it was translated with an iPhone.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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jfro18
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Re: Rough Sunday

Post by jfro18 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:43 pm

Sorry Linked --

I don't know what the answer is because obviously if you say no you make your wife sad, but saying yes is tougher on you.

Personally I love the idea of being more clear on how everything happened, because you can stick to the gospel topics essay and still blow some minds. But that could go poorly, because members do not want to hear the real history of their prophet sticking his head entirely in a hat and reading words off of a common stone that he previously used to hunt for buried treasure.

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DPRoberts
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Re: Rough Sunday

Post by DPRoberts » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:25 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:22 pm
Pull an Uchtdorf and tell them it was translated with an iPhone.
Here's a visual aid for that
AppleRock2a.png
AppleRock2a.png (60.61 KiB) Viewed 1478 times
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

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moksha
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Re: Rough Sunday

Post by moksha » Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:08 am

Would it throw the Sunday School program out of whack if you were honest and mentioned the seer stone in the hat? You could lead into it by asking the kids what their favorite kind of rock was and asking them if they remembered the hat in Harry Potter.

Have fun.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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slavereeno
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Re: Rough Sunday

Post by slavereeno » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:58 am

Linked,

Solidarity. I still teach SS (course 12) this is only to keep DW happy. I think if I were to ask her, she would say I should give up my calling. I would love to just take her at her word and do that, but it would raise eyebrows. Then what? If I refuse to take another calling then the microscope would really be on us (if it isn't a bit already?) and things will get miserable for DW.

I do enjoy the fantasies of teaching some reality about the church to these 12-13 year old kids. I love the idea of a paper hat they make in class, have the kids pick a rock from the landscaping and put it in the hat, then have them all put their faces in the hat to simulate the translation process. After all, we do stupid pioneer trek, why not this? But really, I wouldn't because it will raise eyebrows and the gossip and trouble will take me to the same place, basically going to DWs favorite social event and peeing in the pool. So I shut my face and eat sh*t like a good little NOM.

Wonderment
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Re: Rough Sunday

Post by Wonderment » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:42 pm

Marriage is supposed to be a two-way street, but many TBM's ( as loving as they may be), want to believe that marriage is all THEIR way. We all know that countless hundreds of thousands of attempts have been made to re-activate NOM's by asking them "Just for a few weeks, just for a little while, just help out in this or that calling."

Since you've agreed to help out, in order to keep the peace, it's very likely that another teacher will never be found for her, because you're so good at what you're doing, and the kids like you. That will make your wife have happy feelings because she has accomplished her purpose of keeping you in the boat and keeping you in a calling for a little longer, but what about YOUR feelings? In a marriage, the feelings of both people matter, but she doesn't see it that way. She appears not to consider your feelings, as long as she is happy with having you help out "just for a little while."

Not only that, but you're supposed to stand by meekly and quietly, while she teaches that the BOM was translated with the gold plates. We know now that is blatantly false. She's teaching false doctrine to unsuspecting kids. That's wrong, especially when the gospel topic essays tell us otherwise. So I think you should take RR's advice. Tell her that if you are going to agree to help her out, that you will teach the facts as you know them, and that involves the gospel essays. By all means, have the kids make paper hats and find stones for them. If you agreed to help her out, then she should agree to let you teach in accordance with the essays.

Also, advise her kindly that you will be glad to help out for X amount of time, then you will stop assisting, even if a team-teacher has not been located. She knows that you asked to be released and that you want to be released. If she asks "Why can't you stay for as long as you are needed?", then remind her that it is YOUR WISH and YOUR BELIEF that you wish to be released from these activities.
Last edited by Wonderment on Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Wonderment
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Re: Rough Sunday

Post by Wonderment » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:45 pm

P.S. I'm sure your wife is a lovely person and means the best, but just like many TBM's, she is COMPLETELY UNABLE TO OBSERVE ANY BOUNDARIES.
She manipulates by crying, or begging, or throwing temper tantrums, or going behind your back to the relatives, :roll: or saying "just do this for a little while" ( which is how TBM's try to reactivate everyone), and any other technique she can think of. I'm starting to dislike her, because she's so darn controlling. :roll:

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alas
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Re: Rough Sunday

Post by alas » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:13 am

TBMs think they have the truth, just like we NOMs think we have the truth, and they think that because it is truth, that exposing you to it will help you see the truth, just like we NOMs just want our spouse to listen to our side of things just once so they will begin to see it is the truth. So just like we NOMs try to just expose them to the truth because we know the truth will win, they manipulate to expose us to the truth, *knowing* if we just give it half a chance.....

So, in my worthless opinion, what is required is some hope shattering. She hopes that teaching will convince you that it is true. Sit dear wife down and tell her that you understand that she thinks that exposing you to this “truth” will eventually help you see the truth. Explain that instead it is backfiring and making you hate it more. Because she is trying to cram it down your throat, you are resisting even more than you would if she just left you alone. Instead of finding truth, it has become a power struggle where she is trying to take away your agency. Satan lost that battle in the pre existence because force doesn’t work. It backfires and causes people to fight for their freedom. Freedom becomes more important than truth.

She has to trust you that you are a good enough person that you will look for the truth that makes sense to you. Then give the church a deadline to replace you after which you will no longer teach. Period. You love her enough to help out in a jam, but you are not willing to be manipulated by the church purposely not replacing you, thinking that if you just teach a little longer you will see things their way. Then give the bishop a deadline.

Just my thoughts with me not knowing your wife at all and if she is really doing what we all suspect or if she would handle it well if you had this talk.

Wonderment
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Re: Rough Sunday

Post by Wonderment » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:26 pm

Alas wrote:
She has to trust you that you are a good enough person that you will look for the truth that makes sense to you. Then give the church a deadline to replace you after which you will no longer teach. Period. You love her enough to help out in a jam, but you are not willing to be manipulated by the church purposely not replacing you, thinking that if you just teach a little longer you will see things their way. Then give the bishop a deadline.
Agreed. The only thing I would add is : because you made the agreement with your wife to help her out as a favor to her, and because you're not officially in that calling - it's her job to meet with the bishop regarding another team teacher. He didn't assign you to that calling. He told her that he was trying to locate another teacher, so she can take responsibility for communicating with him. That's calling belongs to her. I don't think you should have to undergo the stress of communicating with the bishop in this case, as you're only there unofficially as a personal favor. The bishop didn't appoint you to this calling or communicate with you about it. As a suggestion: Set your boundaries and lovingly but firmly enforce them. You're leaving in X number of weeks, then it's between her and the bishop when another teacher officially comes on board.

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Linked
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Re: Rough Sunday

Post by Linked » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:30 pm

Thanks for the support everyone.

DW is not the kind of person to try to sneakily keep me teaching. She is pretty on board with my decision to stop. But I did tell her I would be available to help occasionally. I was just excited to not do it anymore and then my excitement was shattered; mismanaged expectations I guess. I think I will let DW know that I'm not available to help in February, just to make sure all the kinks get worked out. No misunderstandings that way.

My text message in November to the primary president was quite clear about when I would be done teaching primary, Dec 31. I was officially released a few weeks ago. On Sunday I asked the primary president what the status was for the new team teacher and she said the new one is identified, but the BP member who was going to extend the calling was sick last week, so it didn't happen. It sounds like they are working on it, just a bit late. It puts DW and me in a crappy situation which strains our relationship, but what's new with what the church does to families? DW has given on some other things, so I'm gonna swallow this frustration after some complaining on NOM :D . I do intend to bring up the BOM translation essay with DW though, I don't think she is aware of the actual translation methods used.
alas wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:13 am
She has to trust you that you are a good enough person that you will look for the truth that makes sense to you.
This is a different topic, but I don't think that my DW thinks that I am a good person, or trustworthy, or that I am seeking truth. She is doing the best she can trapped with me by children and economics. Our worldviews don't quite line up (beyond religious beliefs), and in her view I am not good people. But she continues to be a good person in her mind, working hard and toeing the line. Where I am good in my mind by enjoying my relationships with others and understanding, examining, and deconstructing the line.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

Wonderment
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Re: Rough Sunday

Post by Wonderment » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:29 pm

Linked - You appear to be a very good, thoughtful, kind, conscientious person. Hopefully, your wife will realize that she and your children are most fortunate that you are there for them.
Sending you lots of support and good wishes. Please keep us updated on how this situation is progressing. -- Wndr.

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Linked
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Re: Rough Sunday

Post by Linked » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:22 am

Quick update. I spoke with DW about being disappointed that they haven't gotten the call to another teacher yet. I told her that I am not going to be available as a backup in February, just to make sure the kinks get worked out. She agreed that was a good idea, and told me that she doesn't want the ward's lack of calling someone else to turn me into her de facto team teacher. It was good.

I still need to bring up the "translation" method.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Random
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Re: Rough Sunday

Post by Random » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:29 pm

I'm glad you told her that, and I'm glad she accepted it. Sometimes you need to set clear boundaries with the Church.
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK

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2bizE
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Re: Rough Sunday

Post by 2bizE » Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:09 pm

I had a rough one today too.
What I bit my tongue on:
1) The Book of Mormon is unchanged, pure, the most perfect book without any changes.
2) It’s OK for God to have his prophets kill people.
~2bizE

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DPRoberts
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Re: Rough Sunday

Post by DPRoberts » Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:50 pm

I'm getting an image in my mind of RMN with a flaming scalpel. Make it go away!
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

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