What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

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moksha
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by moksha » Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:07 am

moksha wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:27 am

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps ... 7b48e9ecf6

189,633 cases in the US and 888 cases in Utah.
245,573 cases in the US and 1093 in Utah.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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moksha
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by moksha » Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:34 pm

moksha wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:07 am

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps ... 7b48e9ecf6

245,573 cases in the US and 1093 in Utah.
275,586 cases in the US and 1255 in Utah.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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wtfluff
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Location: Worshiping Gravity / Pulling Taffy

Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by wtfluff » Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:57 pm

moksha wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:34 pm
moksha wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:07 am

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps ... 7b48e9ecf6

245,573 cases in the US and 1093 in Utah.
275,586 cases in the US and 1255 in Utah.
Also of note: We passed the 1,000,000 mark for confirmed cases worldwide.

Here we go... 10,000,000 in ~2-3 weeks. :cry:
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

We are secrets to each other

Thoughtful
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Thoughtful » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:00 am

wtfluff wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:57 pm
moksha wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:34 pm
moksha wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:07 am

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps ... 7b48e9ecf6

245,573 cases in the US and 1093 in Utah.
275,586 cases in the US and 1255 in Utah.
Also of note: We passed the 1,000,000 mark for confirmed cases worldwide.

Here we go... 10,000,000 in ~2-3 weeks. :cry:
Yep, assuming we don't see a change, the current range of acceleration in the USA is variable, but between 3 times a week and 11 times in a week. So between 3 million and 33 million in 3 weeks unless the rate of acceleration changes.

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AdmiralHoldo
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by AdmiralHoldo » Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:31 pm

Now that the CDC has recommended fabric masks for everyone, I'm whipping up a quick batch for my family. I am an avid seamstress, and I used to have a sewing business, so I've got fabric coming out of my ears. And I'm going to use my Instant Pot to sterilize them between wearings. God, maybe I am still TBM and just don't realize it!

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Newme
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Newme » Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:06 pm

:roll:

MANY more die each year of FLU (than this overhyped virus).
CDC estimates* that, from October 1, 2019, through March 28, 2020, there have been:
39,000,000 – 55,000,000 flu illnesses
18,000,000 – 26,000,000 flu medical visits
400,000 – 730,000 flu hospitalizations
24,000 – 63,000 flu deaths
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/pr ... imates.htm

2018-2019 flu season CDC estimates
+ 35,500,000 illnesses
+ 16,500,000 medical visits
490,600 hospitalizations
34,200 deaths
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

US Covid-19 Tests fallible/US rarely testing
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/03/no_ ... ronavirus/

COVID-19 Deaths in Europe: Excess Mortality is – DOWN?
”Given the global hysteria over the spread COVID-19, you might be excused if you are very surprised to learn that the most recent week of mortality data in the EU shows an actual decline from what is expected for this time of year.

In the coming months there will be an increasing debate over whether the virtual shutdown of our economy was warranted given the threat of the latest form of the coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2. While there are still large uncertainties about how fast it spreads and how lethal it is (statistically, those are inversely related), I suspect we will ultimately realize that our response might well have done more harm than good to society as a whole.

This is mainly because poverty is the leading cause of premature death in the world, and shutting down the economy leads to premature death for a multitude of reasons related to poverty. In the extreme example, you could save lives in the short run by keeping everyone at home, but in the long run we would all starve to death.”

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/03/30/ ... y-is-down/

12 Experts Questioning the Coronavirus Panic

Image

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oliblish
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by oliblish » Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:09 pm

Newme wrote::roll:

MANY more die each year of FLU (than this overhyped virus).
CDC estimates* that, from October 1, 2019, through March 28, 2020, there have been:
39,000,000 – 55,000,000 flu illnesses
18,000,000 – 26,000,000 flu medical visits
400,000 – 730,000 flu hospitalizations
24,000 – 63,000 flu deaths
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/pr ... imates.htm

2018-2019 flu season CDC estimates
+ 35,500,000 illnesses
+ 16,500,000 medical visits
490,600 hospitalizations
34,200 deaths
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

US Covid-19 Tests fallible/US rarely testing
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/03/no_ ... ronavirus/

COVID-19 Deaths in Europe: Excess Mortality is – DOWN?
”Given the global hysteria over the spread COVID-19, you might be excused if you are very surprised to learn that the most recent week of mortality data in the EU shows an actual decline from what is expected for this time of year.

In the coming months there will be an increasing debate over whether the virtual shutdown of our economy was warranted given the threat of the latest form of the coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2. While there are still large uncertainties about how fast it spreads and how lethal it is (statistically, those are inversely related), I suspect we will ultimately realize that our response might well have done more harm than good to society as a whole.

This is mainly because poverty is the leading cause of premature death in the world, and shutting down the economy leads to premature death for a multitude of reasons related to poverty. In the extreme example, you could save lives in the short run by keeping everyone at home, but in the long run we would all starve to death.”

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/03/30/ ... y-is-down/

12 Experts Questioning the Coronavirus Panic

Image
So you say the virus is overhyped. Exactly what is the correct level of hype? It is easy to criticize with generalities, but unless you have specific suggestions of how we should be handling things differently it isn’t very helpful.

Should restaurants and sporting events be open? How about international air travel? Schools? Offices? Movies? Conferences? Church meetings?

If this virus is really less dangerous than the flu (which is what you seem to be implying) then there should be no need for any of the above things to be closed.

Do you think the things you list in your post are not understood by the CDC, WHO, Anthony Fauci and the other experts who are advising leaders on policy?

I anxiously await your specific ideas on how countries should correctly handle this overhyped virus.
Stands next to Kolob, called by the Egyptians Oliblish, which is the next grand governing creation near to the celestial or the place where God resides; holding the key of power also, pertaining to other planets; as revealed from God to Abraham

Reuben
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Reuben » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:34 am

Various sources I've read (they're easy to find) put the hospitalization rate for SARS-Cov-2 at about 10%, and its mortality rate at around 1%. Taken together, seasonal flus have a hospitalization rate of about 1% and a mortality rate of about 0.1%. So the new virus is 10x worse in its effects on average - and that's assuming good medical care.

Regarding transmission, an infected person will pass the flu on to an average of 1.8 people. For SARS-Cov-2, it seems to be 2.5. Exponential growth makes that a huuuuge difference.

Most of us will get this bug - about 60% for herd immunity to kick in. The trick is going to be keeping the rate of infection low enough, and keeping vulnerable people - like my 20-year-old daughter with asthma - in the 40%.

I'm also worried about its effect on the economy. A lot of people are. Unemployment kills, and like this bug, it kills the most vulnerable more frequently.

But here are my biggest pet peeves right now about how we talk about this new coronavirus:

- Fake news and rumors.

- Downplaying the seriousness of the economic impact and overfocusing on directly caused deaths.

- Downplaying the seriousness of directly caused deaths and overfocusing on the economic impact.

What will probably happen is what's happened before: we'll take up sides, waste a lot of time calling each other names equivalent to "stupid" and "immoral," and God willing, somehow find a policy that doesn't suck too much.
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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Hagoth
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Hagoth » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:23 am

AdmiralHoldo wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:31 pm
Now that the CDC has recommended fabric masks for everyone, I'm whipping up a quick batch for my family. I am an avid seamstress, and I used to have a sewing business, so I've got fabric coming out of my ears. And I'm going to use my Instant Pot to sterilize them between wearings. God, maybe I am still TBM and just don't realize it!
My wife is going to do this. She read some recommendations from a medical equipment developer who suggests adding a pocket where you can insert a layer of non-woven fabric that is better than woven cloth at stopping airborne droplets. He recommends this:

https://www.grainger.com/product/2XRN3? ... 333877848!

She found it at Home Depot.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hagoth
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Hagoth » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:34 am

Newme wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:06 pm
MANY more die each year of FLU (than this overhyped virus).
That was kind of what I was saying in the beginning, based on earlier experience with SARS and H1N1. Boy was I wrong. This is obviously quite different. If we could swap this thing for regular flu things would be a lot less concerning, but it is the addition of COVID-19 on top of the flu, considering that the hospitalization rates are much, much higher, that is the cause for concern.

What it really does is show us how unprepared we are and how inadequate our healthcare system is when millions of citizens suddenly find themselves without employer health benefits.

The next challenge will educating people about why they need to get the vaccine when it comes around.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hagoth
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Hagoth » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:44 am

Reuben wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:34 am
Regarding transmission, an infected person will pass the flu on to an average of 1.8 people. For SARS-Cov-2, it seems to be 2.5. Exponential growth makes that a huuuuge difference.
And measles has a transmission index of 16 with a hospitalization rate of 25%! This is why herd immunity/vaccination is so important. Last year's measles outbreak was due primarily to anti-vaxing disinformation. If not for the level-headed majority who had been maintaining immunization it could have been a pandemic that would make this thing look like a walk in the park.

Maybe God could move upon his prophet, seer, and revelator (who just happens to be a physician!) to reveal a vaccine instead of a logo?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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moksha
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by moksha » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:42 am

AdmiralHoldo wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:31 pm
And I'm going to use my Instant Pot to sterilize them between wearings. God, maybe I am still TBM and just don't realize it!
Some microbes can still exist after six hours in an autoclave. You need not fear what is already in your immediate environment. My neighbor made me a fabric mask and I intend to simply handwash it in the sink. For those who are handy with sewing, consider making these for old people you know.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Newme
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Newme » Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:39 am

oliblish wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:09 pm
Newme wrote::roll:

MANY more die each year of FLU (than this overhyped virus).
CDC estimates* that, from October 1, 2019, through March 28, 2020, there have been:
39,000,000 – 55,000,000 flu illnesses
18,000,000 – 26,000,000 flu medical visits
400,000 – 730,000 flu hospitalizations
24,000 – 63,000 flu deaths
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/pr ... imates.htm

2018-2019 flu season CDC estimates
+ 35,500,000 illnesses
+ 16,500,000 medical visits
490,600 hospitalizations
34,200 deaths
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

US Covid-19 Tests fallible/US rarely testing
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/03/no_ ... ronavirus/

COVID-19 Deaths in Europe: Excess Mortality is – DOWN?
”Given the global hysteria over the spread COVID-19, you might be excused if you are very surprised to learn that the most recent week of mortality data in the EU shows an actual decline from what is expected for this time of year.

In the coming months there will be an increasing debate over whether the virtual shutdown of our economy was warranted given the threat of the latest form of the coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2. While there are still large uncertainties about how fast it spreads and how lethal it is (statistically, those are inversely related), I suspect we will ultimately realize that our response might well have done more harm than good to society as a whole.

This is mainly because poverty is the leading cause of premature death in the world, and shutting down the economy leads to premature death for a multitude of reasons related to poverty. In the extreme example, you could save lives in the short run by keeping everyone at home, but in the long run we would all starve to death.”

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/03/30/ ... y-is-down/

12 Experts Questioning the Coronavirus Panic

Image
So you say the virus is overhyped. Exactly what is the correct level of hype? It is easy to criticize with generalities, but unless you have specific suggestions of how we should be handling things differently it isn’t very helpful.

Should restaurants and sporting events be open? How about international air travel? Schools? Offices? Movies? Conferences? Church meetings?

If this virus is really less dangerous than the flu (which is what you seem to be implying) then there should be no need for any of the above things to be closed.

Do you think the things you list in your post are not understood by the CDC, WHO, Anthony Fauci and the other experts who are advising leaders on policy?

I anxiously await your specific ideas on how countries should correctly handle this overhyped virus.
As we do each flu season. Vulnerable avoid crowds & be more vigilant to maintain strong immunity. Everyone else - keep working, loving, assembling etc.

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Newme
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Newme » Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:42 am

Hagoth wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:34 am
Newme wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:06 pm
MANY more die each year of FLU (than this overhyped virus).
That was kind of what I was saying in the beginning, based on earlier experience with SARS and H1N1. Boy was I wrong. This is obviously quite different. If we could swap this thing for regular flu things would be a lot less concerning, but it is the addition of COVID-19 on top of the flu, considering that the hospitalization rates are much, much higher, that is the cause for concern.

What it really does is show us how unprepared we are and how inadequate our healthcare system is when millions of citizens suddenly find themselves without employer health benefits.

The next challenge will educating people about why they need to get the vaccine when it comes around.
Mandating vaccines for a virus which is not even effectively tested??
Sorry, but look at the numbers again.
Forget biased news & mob mentality. Look at the facts. Mob mentality is far more dangerous than this virus.

Over 99% of COVID-19 patients in Italy who died had other health problems
https://nypost.com/2020/03/18/over-99-o ... illnesses/

Image

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oliblish
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by oliblish » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:02 am

Newme wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:42 am
Forget biased news & mob mentality. Look at the facts. Mob mentality is far more dangerous than this virus.
Which news sources do you think are biased and which ones are trustworthy? What are the best sources for facts?
Stands next to Kolob, called by the Egyptians Oliblish, which is the next grand governing creation near to the celestial or the place where God resides; holding the key of power also, pertaining to other planets; as revealed from God to Abraham

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Newme
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Newme » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:15 am

oliblish wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:02 am
Newme wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:42 am
Forget biased news & mob mentality. Look at the facts. Mob mentality is far more dangerous than this virus.
Which news sources do you think are biased and which ones are trustworthy? What are the best sources for facts?
US Hospitals & Clinics report cases to the US CDC. That’s why I quoted their numbers not some BS from media.

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Hagoth
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Hagoth » Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:35 pm

Newme wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:42 am
Mandating vaccines for a virus which is not even effectively tested??
Who said that?
Newme wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:15 am
US Hospitals & Clinics report cases to the US CDC. That’s why I quoted their numbers not some BS from media...
...or their BS advice about taking precautions.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hagoth
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Hagoth » Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:42 pm

"Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups." George Carlin

Good point. I'm going to stop using seatbelts.

I love George Carlin, he also recommended swimming in raw sewage to avoid polio. And I stupidly followed the crowd and got vaccinated.

I see the problem. Herd immunity. Herd mentality.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Newme
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Newme » Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:02 pm

Again, look at the numbers from US CDC.

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wtfluff
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Location: Worshiping Gravity / Pulling Taffy

Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by wtfluff » Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:10 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:23 am
AdmiralHoldo wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:31 pm
Now that the CDC has recommended fabric masks for everyone, I'm whipping up a quick batch for my family. I am an avid seamstress, and I used to have a sewing business, so I've got fabric coming out of my ears. And I'm going to use my Instant Pot to sterilize them between wearings. God, maybe I am still TBM and just don't realize it!
My wife is going to do this. She read some recommendations from a medical equipment developer who suggests adding a pocket where you can insert a layer of non-woven fabric that is better than woven cloth at stopping airborne droplets. He recommends this:

https://www.grainger.com/product/2XRN3? ... 333877848!

She found it at Home Depot.
As far as the "extra layer" is concerned: I have seen folks use just regular old paper-towels. Also: Hepa filters (chopped up vacuum bags?) and coffee filters (should be plenty of those in UTAH still...)

Anything that can help trap aerosolized particles or droplets, and as long as you can still breathe...

Remember to sterilize masks often.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

We are secrets to each other

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