What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

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moksha
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by moksha » Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:43 am

moksha wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:11 pm
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps ... 7b48e9ecf6

735,086 cases in the US and 2917 cases in Utah.
826,248 cases in the US and 3297 cases in Utah.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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wtfluff
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by wtfluff » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:32 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:57 pm
moksha wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:34 pm
moksha wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:07 am

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps ... 7b48e9ecf6

245,573 cases in the US and 1093 in Utah.
275,586 cases in the US and 1255 in Utah.
Also of note: We passed the 1,000,000 mark for confirmed cases worldwide.

Here we go... 10,000,000 in ~2-3 weeks. :cry:
Tomorrow will be 3 weeks since I popped in here and made a "prediction" about exponential growth of COVID-19 cases worldwide.

As I type this, the Johns Hopkins dashboard is reporting 2,703,615 cases world wide. I'm happy to say that my "prediction" was WRONG. This Is My Report™.

I guess enough of us humans have been able to #StayHome to stop the exponential spread, or there's something else afoot slowing things down. Either way I think it's a good outcome.

Now... How do we get back to work without this invisible enemy exploding and taking out all the folks at risk?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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Reuben
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Reuben » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:59 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:32 pm
Now... How do we get back to work without this invisible enemy exploding and taking out all the folks at risk?
With a vaccine, we would get 75% of us either vaccinated or sick and recovered (probably).

With no vaccine but better treatments, it would happen slowly, in waves, until 75% of us have been sick and recovered (probably).

With the status quo, it would happen even more slowly, in waves. Years of lockdown/lifting until we hit the magic 75% sick and recovered needed for herd immunity (probably).

The "probably" is because we don't know a few things. Would the vaccine be nearly 100% effective? (Probably.) For how long? (No idea. Hopefully at least six months.) How long does immunity from having fought it off last? (No idea. Hopefully at least six months.) Does the virus hide out in reservoirs in the human body and reinfect? (Maybe.) Is it less potent in summer? (Probably, going by Australia's apparent reproduction rate.) Will there be lasting changes to how we socialize that lower the basic reproduction rate? (Probably.)
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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moksha
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by moksha » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:59 am

wtfluff wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:32 pm
I guess enough of us humans have been able to #StayHome to stop the exponential spread, or there's something else afoot slowing things down. Either way, I think it's a good outcome.
The US is a country of rugged individualists. Perhaps that is why we top the number of cases by such a wide margin.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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alas
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by alas » Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:08 am

moksha wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:59 am
wtfluff wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:32 pm
I guess enough of us humans have been able to #StayHome to stop the exponential spread, or there's something else afoot slowing things down. Either way, I think it's a good outcome.
The US is a country of rugged individualists. Perhaps that is why we top the number of cases by such a wide margin.
We also have an idiot for a Cheeto in chief who was telling everybody that it was just the flu, don’t worry, the Dems are blowing it way out of proportion to try to stop my reelection, it will go away, we have medicine that will cure or prevent it, bla bla bla.

In fact Sean Hannity is still saying things like that and some guy got curious did a study and compared the people who listen to Sean idiot Hannity to people who listen to the other Faux News guy who has been taking the virus seriously. Turns out that Sean Idiot Hannity is literally killing people. His listeners have a higher death rate than those who listen to the other guy. So, it does matter what gets said on the news and Darwin strikes again.

Countries who do a more strict stay at home order have had lower death rates. And we are finding out that the virus was here two weeks before we knew it and so our social distancing was too little too late. Part of that is tRumps fault too because he fired the pandemic response team and his refusal to take it seriously made the roll out of social distancing later than it would have been if he had listened to the people telling him it would hit the US. But he thinks what he wants is the truth and that he is so much smarter than scientists, but he isn’t as smart as a cucumber.

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Geocacher
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Geocacher » Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:10 am

In my case since I work in the front lines of the supply chain to the store shelves, I only am near coworkers and not family or friends. I remember the day when I filled the paper isle full of toilet paper, and the very next day there was none left.

I do use Zoom Meeting for church and sometimes family. If my sister comes by to drop meals, she puts it on the porch then I come out to get it(Social Distancing). I have only about 5 people that I used to visit weekly, but that hit zero now. Typing this while drinking med/dark roast Colombian.

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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:12 am

alas wrote:
moksha wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:59 am
wtfluff wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:32 pm
I guess enough of us humans have been able to #StayHome to stop the exponential spread, or there's something else afoot slowing things down. Either way, I think it's a good outcome.
The US is a country of rugged individualists. Perhaps that is why we top the number of cases by such a wide margin.
We also have an idiot for a Cheeto in chief who was telling everybody that it was just the flu, don’t worry, the Dems are blowing it way out of proportion to try to stop my reelection, it will go away, we have medicine that will cure or prevent it, bla bla bla.

In fact Sean Hannity is still saying things like that and some guy got curious did a study and compared the people who listen to Sean idiot Hannity to people who listen to the other Faux News guy who has been taking the virus seriously. Turns out that Sean Idiot Hannity is literally killing people. His listeners have a higher death rate than those who listen to the other guy. So, it does matter what gets said on the news and Darwin strikes again.

Countries who do a more strict stay at home order have had lower death rates. And we are finding out that the virus was here two weeks before we knew it and so our social distancing was too little too late. Part of that is tRumps fault too because he fired the pandemic response team and his refusal to take it seriously made the roll out of social distancing later than it would have been if he had listened to the people telling him it would hit the US. But he thinks what he wants is the truth and that he is so much smarter than scientists, but he isn’t as smart as a cucumber.
To be fair to the principles of Sting's song "Russians" and the lyric "there is no monopoly of common sense on either side of the political fence", when Cheeto blocked travel from China, several on the D side criticized him for racism and certain state leaders in NY told the people to keep taking the subway and go to concerts. They are all incompetent buffoons.

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alas
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by alas » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:07 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:12 am
alas wrote:
moksha wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:59 am

The US is a country of rugged individualists. Perhaps that is why we top the number of cases by such a wide margin.
We also have an idiot for a Cheeto in chief who was telling everybody that it was just the flu, don’t worry, the Dems are blowing it way out of proportion to try to stop my reelection, it will go away, we have medicine that will cure or prevent it, bla bla bla.

In fact Sean Hannity is still saying things like that and some guy got curious did a study and compared the people who listen to Sean idiot Hannity to people who listen to the other Faux News guy who has been taking the virus seriously. Turns out that Sean Idiot Hannity is literally killing people. His listeners have a higher death rate than those who listen to the other guy. So, it does matter what gets said on the news and Darwin strikes again.

Countries who do a more strict stay at home order have had lower death rates. And we are finding out that the virus was here two weeks before we knew it and so our social distancing was too little too late. Part of that is tRumps fault too because he fired the pandemic response team and his refusal to take it seriously made the roll out of social distancing later than it would have been if he had listened to the people telling him it would hit the US. But he thinks what he wants is the truth and that he is so much smarter than scientists, but he isn’t as smart as a cucumber.
To be fair to the principles of Sting's song "Russians" and the lyric "there is no monopoly of common sense on either side of the political fence", when Cheeto blocked travel from China, several on the D side criticized him for racism and certain state leaders in NY told the people to keep taking the subway and go to concerts. They are all incompetent buffoons.
Well, yes, I agree there are a percentage of idiots and good people on both sides. 99.9% are corporate owned and operated who put their own pet projects ahead of the job they were voted in to do on both sides. It is just that his orangeness is extra extreme incompetent, instead of mediocre incompetent. And any remaining honest republicans have been forced out. The dems going for Biden didn’t excite me any because just another corporate hack. I think they are all purchased by big business. I still approve somewhat of Romney and ...well if I was a Utah resident I would still vote for him. But most politicians right now turn my stomach. It is always a choice in the lesser or two evils. Or the lesser of two weevils as the joke from a pretty good movie goes. As my daughter says, politicians should be forced to wear coveralls like race car drivers that tell us who their sponsors are so we know who they really work for, cause it is obvious they don’t work for the people. But the current crop of republicans have violated every principle the party used to stand for. I *used* to agree with them on a lot of stuff.

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Hagoth
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Hagoth » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:30 pm

alas wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:08 am
Turns out that Sean Idiot Hannity is literally killing people. His listeners have a higher death rate than those who listen to the other guy.
We have Roger Ails to thank for that. He started hatching his media-for-morons schemes back in his days as an advisor in the Nixon administration when he wrote, "People are lazy. With television you just sit -- watch -- listen. The thinking is done for you."

A CNN report claims that social scientists have established that conservative thinkers are much more likely to believe television scare tactics than liberals. I'm sure conservatives would write that off as liberal media fake news, but brain scan studies have shown that conservative-leaning people really do have more reactive amygdalas - quicker to form opinions based on emotion than reason - than liberal-thinking people.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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moksha
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by moksha » Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:22 pm

alas wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:08 am
We also have an idiot for a Cheeto in chief who was telling everybody that it was just the flu, don’t worry, the Dems are blowing it way out of proportion to try to stop my reelection, it will go away, we have medicine that will cure or prevent it, bla bla bla.
One of my favorite Trump news clips was him stating that ordinary flu vaccine could be used for COVID-19. One of his advisors told him no. He rephrased it as a question, and another science advisor had to tell him no again. The clip ended with a third science advisor telling him no.

That day his lack of knowledge exceeded his spray-on skin bronzer and he was truly the Idiot-in-Chief.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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wtfluff
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by wtfluff » Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:24 pm

Reuben wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:59 pm
wtfluff wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:32 pm
Now... How do we get back to work without this invisible enemy exploding and taking out all the folks at risk?
With a vaccine, we would get 75% of us either vaccinated or sick and recovered (probably).

With no vaccine but better treatments, it would happen slowly, in waves, until 75% of us have been sick and recovered (probably).
Ah, yes; pharmaceuticals. So that means likely a year, maybe two or more...

I mean, I'm an introvert and a complete social reject; I can handle hiding in my basement for that long. I'm in the minority though.

What do you think about non-Pharmaceutical ways to get back to some semblance of normal? Will we have any luck, or just waves of more people dying over and over?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

We are secrets to each other

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alas
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by alas » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:20 am

wtfluff wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:24 pm
Reuben wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:59 pm
wtfluff wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:32 pm
Now... How do we get back to work without this invisible enemy exploding and taking out all the folks at risk?
With a vaccine, we would get 75% of us either vaccinated or sick and recovered (probably).

With no vaccine but better treatments, it would happen slowly, in waves, until 75% of us have been sick and recovered (probably).
Ah, yes; pharmaceuticals. So that means likely a year, maybe two or more...

I mean, I'm an introvert and a complete social reject; I can handle hiding in my basement for that long. I'm in the minority though.

What do you think about non-Pharmaceutical ways to get back to some semblance of normal? Will we have any luck, or just waves of more people dying over and over?
Well, since China is finding that people who have had Covid 19 can get it again, proving that human immunity does not last or protect you from a new variation of this virus. And they have proven that there are already at least 31 variations of this corona virus in China alone, this is looking more and more like it is going to turn out like other corona viruses. Consider, because cold and flu viruses mutate so quickly, we are only about 50% accurate at guessing which flu will go around, which is why there are still so many flu deaths. And we have no effective vaccine against the common cold because the human body fails to maintain immunity for more than a few months and there are just too many cold viruses out there because it mutates so fast.

A while ago I read a scientific article on corona viruses, #19’s nearest relatives. It said that with most of the corona viruses, the human immune response it too weak to last more than a year. It said that in some people, the vaccine or natural immunity did not protect from the mutations of the same virus. The immunization had to be specific to the virus, not all of its mutations. And booster shots would be needed. It left up in the air how quickly this virus mutates because they didn’t know.

Add this up people. A vaccine is wishful thinking. By the time scientists get a vaccine for the first Covid 19 virus, there are going to be 100s of mutations out there and the vaccine will only be partially effective in some people and not at all effective in others, and we will have to go in every 3 or 4 months to get a booster, only to come down with a mutant variety. I hate to be a naysayer, but this is not looking good for a vaccine.

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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Thoughtful » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:04 pm

alas wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:20 am
wtfluff wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:24 pm
Reuben wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:59 pm

With a vaccine, we would get 75% of us either vaccinated or sick and recovered (probably).

With no vaccine but better treatments, it would happen slowly, in waves, until 75% of us have been sick and recovered (probably).
Ah, yes; pharmaceuticals. So that means likely a year, maybe two or more...

I mean, I'm an introvert and a complete social reject; I can handle hiding in my basement for that long. I'm in the minority though.

What do you think about non-Pharmaceutical ways to get back to some semblance of normal? Will we have any luck, or just waves of more people dying over and over?
Well, since China is finding that people who have had Covid 19 can get it again, proving that human immunity does not last or protect you from a new variation of this virus. And they have proven that there are already at least 31 variations of this corona virus in China alone, this is looking more and more like it is going to turn out like other corona viruses. Consider, because cold and flu viruses mutate so quickly, we are only about 50% accurate at guessing which flu will go around, which is why there are still so many flu deaths. And we have no effective vaccine against the common cold because the human body fails to maintain immunity for more than a few months and there are just too many cold viruses out there because it mutates so fast.

A while ago I read a scientific article on corona viruses, #19’s nearest relatives. It said that with most of the corona viruses, the human immune response it too weak to last more than a year. It said that in some people, the vaccine or natural immunity did not protect from the mutations of the same virus. The immunization had to be specific to the virus, not all of its mutations. And booster shots would be needed. It left up in the air how quickly this virus mutates because they didn’t know.

Add this up people. A vaccine is wishful thinking. By the time scientists get a vaccine for the first Covid 19 virus, there are going to be 100s of mutations out there and the vaccine will only be partially effective in some people and not at all effective in others, and we will have to go in every 3 or 4 months to get a booster, only to come down with a mutant variety. I hate to be a naysayer, but this is not looking good for a vaccine.
Maybe. At the same time, the belief around why children aren't overall adversely impacted seems to be the sheer number of coronaviruses they catch gives them some cross immunity. If course that also could mean that by keeping them away from each other, when they go back to school, they may be more vulnerable than they were this winter.

I think we will see a moderately effective vaccine and some emerging medical treatments for active infections. We will see the panic settle but a range of ongoing illness continue, like strep, colds, flu go around, this will go around. We will hopefully emerge more conscientious about handwashing and keeping our cooties to ourselves.

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alas
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by alas » Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:42 pm

Thoughtful wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:04 pm
alas wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:20 am
wtfluff wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:24 pm


Ah, yes; pharmaceuticals. So that means likely a year, maybe two or more...

I mean, I'm an introvert and a complete social reject; I can handle hiding in my basement for that long. I'm in the minority though.

What do you think about non-Pharmaceutical ways to get back to some semblance of normal? Will we have any luck, or just waves of more people dying over and over?
Well, since China is finding that people who have had Covid 19 can get it again, proving that human immunity does not last or protect you from a new variation of this virus. And they have proven that there are already at least 31 variations of this corona virus in China alone, this is looking more and more like it is going to turn out like other corona viruses. Consider, because cold and flu viruses mutate so quickly, we are only about 50% accurate at guessing which flu will go around, which is why there are still so many flu deaths. And we have no effective vaccine against the common cold because the human body fails to maintain immunity for more than a few months and there are just too many cold viruses out there because it mutates so fast.

A while ago I read a scientific article on corona viruses, #19’s nearest relatives. It said that with most of the corona viruses, the human immune response it too weak to last more than a year. It said that in some people, the vaccine or natural immunity did not protect from the mutations of the same virus. The immunization had to be specific to the virus, not all of its mutations. And booster shots would be needed. It left up in the air how quickly this virus mutates because they didn’t know.

Add this up people. A vaccine is wishful thinking. By the time scientists get a vaccine for the first Covid 19 virus, there are going to be 100s of mutations out there and the vaccine will only be partially effective in some people and not at all effective in others, and we will have to go in every 3 or 4 months to get a booster, only to come down with a mutant variety. I hate to be a naysayer, but this is not looking good for a vaccine.
Maybe. At the same time, the belief around why children aren't overall adversely impacted seems to be the sheer number of coronaviruses they catch gives them some cross immunity. If course that also could mean that by keeping them away from each other, when they go back to school, they may be more vulnerable than they were this winter.

I think we will see a moderately effective vaccine and some emerging medical treatments for active infections. We will see the panic settle but a range of ongoing illness continue, like strep, colds, flu go around, this will go around. We will hopefully emerge more conscientious about handwashing and keeping our cooties to ourselves.
Well, look at HIV. No vaccine yet, but we have developed some pretty good treatments. So, I think once we figure out why this is asymptomatic in some people and kills others, and just how it is killing them, that they will find ways of treating it. The problem is that this disease has only been in existence for six months and there is still so much we don’t know.

So, although I am quite skeptical about a vaccine, I am hopeful for treatments.

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moksha
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by moksha » Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:07 am

moksha wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:43 am
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps ... 7b48e9ecf6

826,248 cases in the US and 3297 cases in Utah.
988,469 cases in the US and 4336 cases in Utah.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Red Ryder
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:01 am

Why is the death rate so low in Utah?
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:09 am

Red Ryder wrote:Why is the death rate so low in Utah?
Word of wisdom, conference apostolic blessings, and fasts duh!!!!

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alas
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by alas » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:54 pm

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:09 am
Red Ryder wrote:Why is the death rate so low in Utah?
Word of wisdom, conference apostolic blessings, and fasts duh!!!!
A. Not enough tests, so people who die at home or in nursing homes are not counted. My grandchildren’s other grandfather is a case in point. My daughter picked it up in New York and wasn’t sick enough to test when she came back here, but he died at home two weeks after she was in his home. He could have died of Covid but we don’t know because he was never tested, but he was a little sick with something, then he died during the night at home. Utah has a bigger case of not enough tests than most states, but they won’t admit it.
B. It hasn’t really hit yet. We socially isolated before it really got here and started spreading through contacts. Now that it is here, we will go back to kinda normal and have a spike because we still don’t have herd immunity and we still don’t have contact tracing and we still don’t have enough tests.
C. Utah’s population is younger than average and young people are less likely to die.
D. Less smokers and smoking is a risk factor, so, yes WoW.

But you can believe Fasting and prayer if you want.

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Not Buying It
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Not Buying It » Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:12 pm

So much ridicule of President Trump in this thread.

And deservedly so. I am so ashamed to have such an incredibly idiotic individual leading my country. Whether you are liberal or conservative, it shouldn't matter - we should all be able to agree on stupid when we see it, and there is no denying the man is intentionally and intractably ignorant. Unless you are one of those people who thinks it is perfectly acceptable for a world leader to suggest injecting cleaners into the bloodstream as a possible means to fight COVID, in which case nothing I can possibly say will reach you anyway.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:32 pm

Gov Herbert just said no church until fall. He also said we have mountains to replace church buildings. I can dig that herbie!

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