How to find a new identity?

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azflyer
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How to find a new identity?

Post by azflyer » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:55 pm

How have any of you dealt with the feeling of no longer belonging to a group? I miss it. I've been making lots of new friends, but all of my friends are really different kinds of people. And I'm not saying that is bad. I'm just saying it's different.

When I went to church, all of my friends were like me, and I was like all of them. We were all in a big 'happy' group together. Now, I have friends that I do things with, but they're all so different. In some ways, I feel like a chameleon when I go an associate with different people. In some ways, I don't even know who or what I am anymore. And I'm not just talking about religion here. I'm talking about religion, politics, social engagement, and anything else you can think of.

I hope this post makes sense. I guess it was just so comforting to belong to a group where there was so much certainty in my life. Much of that certainty is gone now. Have any of you felt that way?

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Linked
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Re: How to find a new identity?

Post by Linked » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:06 pm

I don't have a good answer for you, but I totally relate. I used to feel like I had tons of people in my tribe who I had a lot in common with. Now I feel like I have a little bit in common with people, but nobody in my tribe. The funny thing is I've always only had a little bit in common with people, I just didn't realize it before.

I try to get my fill of feeling part of a group by finding a couple people at work or church that I get along with well enough to have a rewarding discussion with. And the internet. But it all feels a bit hollow.

Let me know when you figure it out...
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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RubinHighlander
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Re: How to find a new identity?

Post by RubinHighlander » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:03 pm

Embracing uncertainty can be one of the most difficult transitions in a faith crisis, going from knowing your exact purpose in life to a universe where there may be no purpose at all as the given reality. I've come to like this uncertainty much better than any made up answers I had before. I also had other social connections outside of the church that were suffering because of the church and now those other connections are enjoying much more attention. These other connections include being out in nature, landscape and nature photography, time with my wife and kids, home projects and several other areas of interest. I really have not and do not miss the local church tribe. I also have several coworkers that have become close friends.

A big help for me and my DW in finding comfort in our new world of post-religious freedom has been our indulgence in plant based mind altering substances. Particularly, thanks to the fungus family, we have been exploring the cosmic realms of our own subconsciousness. We've had trans formative profound experiences. We typically are left with more questions about reality, consciousness and our own sentient existence, but we receive in return more insights into ourselves and the connections we have with the planet, the cosmos and the people around us. It's been truly amazing and it's starting to get a lot of momentum behind the research that's been suppressed the past 30 years. Outsiders would view a psychedelic experience as an escape from reality but those that have experienced it in the right set and setting would argue that the veil is lifted (to borrow an old mormon dogma) and you get to see the man or energies or whatever it is, that's behind the curtain. I'd recommend the book How to Change your mind by Michael Pollan, provides all the history and research on this topic. This is one possible avenue to get comfortable in the new non-mormon tribal world.
Last edited by RubinHighlander on Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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wtfluff
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Re: How to find a new identity?

Post by wtfluff » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:16 pm

Explore new hobbies, or explore more fully existing hobbies, and enrich friendships found via those hobbies.

You also have a built-in "Ex-Mo" tribe. You are "like" them. Have you thought about spending time with that group?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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Just This Guy
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Re: How to find a new identity?

Post by Just This Guy » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:45 pm

One thing I found is that as a Mormon, you had all you social groups filled under one roof. Mens/Womens club, spiritual needs, parent support, hobby groups, youth groups, they are all done under the same banner.

In the real world, that is highly unusual. People normally have several social groups that they participate in. Someone will be in a group for parent support, then other groups for their hobbies, another for buddies that will go get a drink after work or coffee before work, and yet another for spiritual fulfillment.

As ex-mos, we are not used to having to go to different places to fill all the social needs. It feels foreign to us. However, I would argue that we are better of because it allows us to interact with more people and does a batter job at social fulfillment.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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Linked
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Re: How to find a new identity?

Post by Linked » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:34 pm

Just This Guy wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:45 pm
One thing I found is that as a Mormon, you had all you social groups filled under one roof. Mens/Womens club, spiritual needs, parent support, hobby groups, youth groups, they are all done under the same banner.

In the real world, that is highly unusual. People normally have several social groups that they participate in. Someone will be in a group for parent support, then other groups for their hobbies, another for buddies that will go get a drink after work or coffee before work, and yet another for spiritual fulfillment.

As ex-mos, we are not used to having to go to different places to fill all the social needs. It feels foreign to us. However, I would argue that we are better of because it allows us to interact with more people and does a batter job at social fulfillment.
This is a really good point. So what do we do about the feeling that our social needs aren't being met because we were raised with misguided expectations?
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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MerrieMiss
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Re: How to find a new identity?

Post by MerrieMiss » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:55 pm

I’ve been struggling a lot with this recently. I never really fit into the Mormon crowd; even as a TBM, I had a “group” but I wasn’t really in – but I had this fantasy that if I could just get my life in order or find the right ward then I could be a part of the group someday.

I’ve spent a lot of time in the past few years reaching out and participating in different communities, and I sometimes wonder if the problem is just me. At first the community and friends are interesting and exciting, and then I realize the lack of depth in the relationships there and disconcerted and confused I try again.

I made friends with an exmo woman this year. I didn’t know that when I met her, our kids like each other. It was a fast track to friendship, but over time I’ve realized being exmo was the only thing we really have in common, and that relationship is just as shallow as one I had with a TBM simply because we were in the same ward.

Sometimes I think I have a fantasy in my head of how community and friendships should be and I’ll always be disappointed.

Reuben
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Re: How to find a new identity?

Post by Reuben » Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:48 pm

Linked wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:34 pm
Just This Guy wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:45 pm
One thing I found is that as a Mormon, you had all you social groups filled under one roof. Mens/Womens club, spiritual needs, parent support, hobby groups, youth groups, they are all done under the same banner.

In the real world, that is highly unusual. People normally have several social groups that they participate in. Someone will be in a group for parent support, then other groups for their hobbies, another for buddies that will go get a drink after work or coffee before work, and yet another for spiritual fulfillment.

As ex-mos, we are not used to having to go to different places to fill all the social needs. It feels foreign to us. However, I would argue that we are better of because it allows us to interact with more people and does a batter job at social fulfillment.
This is a really good point. So what do we do about the feeling that our social needs aren't being met because we were raised with misguided expectations?
Change our expectations? Just spitballin' here.

Easier said than done, of course.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

Reuben
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Re: How to find a new identity?

Post by Reuben » Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:53 pm

MerrieMiss wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:55 pm
I’ve been struggling a lot with this recently. I never really fit into the Mormon crowd; even as a TBM, I had a “group” but I wasn’t really in – but I had this fantasy that if I could just get my life in order or find the right ward then I could be a part of the group someday.

I’ve spent a lot of time in the past few years reaching out and participating in different communities, and I sometimes wonder if the problem is just me. At first the community and friends are interesting and exciting, and then I realize the lack of depth in the relationships there and disconcerted and confused I try again.

I made friends with an exmo woman this year. I didn’t know that when I met her, our kids like each other. It was a fast track to friendship, but over time I’ve realized being exmo was the only thing we really have in common, and that relationship is just as shallow as one I had with a TBM simply because we were in the same ward.

Sometimes I think I have a fantasy in my head of how community and friendships should be and I’ll always be disappointed.
What does the fantasy look like? How should community and friendships be?

(Serious question. I'm not sure myself, or whether the ideas I have about them are realistic.)
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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Ghost
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Re: How to find a new identity?

Post by Ghost » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:11 pm

I hope this isn't too irreverent, but I heard a joke not long ago about how one of Jesus's most impressive miracles was having twelve close friends in adulthood.

I can relate to a lot of the comments in this thread. I never really fit in at church. Or anywhere else, really. But I've cultivated the ability to fake it, in that and other contexts. Which I don't see as entirely bad, as faking it can lead to opportunities for genuine interactions at times (as opposed to giving in to my natural state, which is reclusion). Chameleon is a good word for it.

But in the back of my mind I have this idea that it should be possible to have a community and/or friendships where you can be as open as some of Dostoevsky's characters. I don't think I could have even envisioned that before reconsidering my faith. I'm sure some people manage it, but it's difficult to find the situation and the will to remove the mask.

I've made some efforts to find new friends in recent years, since most of my closest friends in the past now live far away. I've also tried to add a little more depth to some existing friendships without being weird about it. I've had some success, but I'm not very good at it.

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Hagoth
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Re: How to find a new identity?

Post by Hagoth » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:37 pm

There are some non-religious communities that are helpful for some people. I attend the Oasis community, which is sort of like a Sunday morning Ted talk with live music and socializing. They also do service projects and outings. There is another similar group called Sunday Assembly. Here in Utah these are made up of mostly refugees from Mormonism, but they exist in other states too.
RubinHighlander wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:03 pm
I'd recommend the book How to Change your mind by Michael Pollan, provides all the history and research on this topic. This is one possible avenue to get comfortable in the new non-mormon tribal world.
I agree with RH's recommendation. Someday we may look back on that book as a significant turning point in psychiatric medicine.

If nothing else, psychedelics will diminish the inflated importance of "authority figures," and magnify your appreciation for the bigger net into which we are all woven. Experimenting isn't for everyone, so I look forward to the day when people can work with these medicines in professional integrated therapy settings. Vote yes on Prop-whatever when it comes along eventually!

I really wish there was a psychedelic association in SLC like there are in other cities where people could meet experienced psychonauts who can help them figure out if it is a good option for them and how to approach it wisely and respectfully.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Angel
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Re: How to find a new identity?

Post by Angel » Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:00 am

“You are only free when you realize you belong no place—you belong every place—no place at all. The price is high. The reward is great,” Angelou told Bill Moyers in a 1973 interview

"When you follow the crowd you lose yourself — but when you follow your soul you will lose the crowd. Eventually, your soul tribe will appear. But do not fear the process of solitude."

those two quotes have helped me.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Just This Guy
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Re: How to find a new identity?

Post by Just This Guy » Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:53 am

Reuben wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:48 pm
Linked wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:34 pm
Just This Guy wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:45 pm
One thing I found is that as a Mormon, you had all you social groups filled under one roof. Mens/Womens club, spiritual needs, parent support, hobby groups, youth groups, they are all done under the same banner.

In the real world, that is highly unusual. People normally have several social groups that they participate in. Someone will be in a group for parent support, then other groups for their hobbies, another for buddies that will go get a drink after work or coffee before work, and yet another for spiritual fulfillment.

As ex-mos, we are not used to having to go to different places to fill all the social needs. It feels foreign to us. However, I would argue that we are better of because it allows us to interact with more people and does a batter job at social fulfillment.
This is a really good point. So what do we do about the feeling that our social needs aren't being met because we were raised with misguided expectations?
Change our expectations? Just spitballin' here.

Easier said than done, of course.

I know it's not the easiest, but I think in the end that is what is all comes down to. As Mormons, we are used to a one-size-fits-all social program. This is all just handed to us through the church. We are programed to not have to 1. look more than one place to fulfill our needs, and 2. have to go looking for something to fill our needs at all. It's a foreign idea for us to have to go looking for social interaction. It's always been handed to us. So we have to change our thinking once that Mormon social circle has been taken away from us.

At the most basic level, we need to go out and try different groups and see what we like. Some we will click with, others we won't, and that is perfectly fine. That trial and error part may be the hardest thing for a lot of members to reprogram their thinking.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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MerrieMiss
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Re: How to find a new identity?

Post by MerrieMiss » Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:33 am

Reuben wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:53 pm
What does the fantasy look like? How should community and friendships be?

(Serious question. I'm not sure myself, or whether the ideas I have about them are realistic.)
Fair question. I think Ghost sums it up well.
Ghost wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:11 pm
I hope this isn't too irreverent, but I heard a joke not long ago about how one of Jesus's most impressive miracles was having twelve close friends in adulthood.

I can relate to a lot of the comments in this thread. I never really fit in at church. Or anywhere else, really. But I've cultivated the ability to fake it, in that and other contexts. Which I don't see as entirely bad, as faking it can lead to opportunities for genuine interactions at times (as opposed to giving in to my natural state, which is reclusion). Chameleon is a good word for it.

But in the back of my mind I have this idea that it should be possible to have a community and/or friendships where you can be as open as some of Dostoevsky's characters. I don't think I could have even envisioned that before reconsidering my faith. I'm sure some people manage it, but it's difficult to find the situation and the will to remove the mask.

I've made some efforts to find new friends in recent years, since most of my closest friends in the past now live far away. I've also tried to add a little more depth to some existing friendships without being weird about it. I've had some success, but I'm not very good at it.
I’ve often thought how nice it would be to have a neighbor who would stop by for cup of coffee and a chat (I used to think this sounded nice even as a TBM, even though I realized it was ridiculous), but the truth is I kind of hide when I see my neighbors and I would most likely interpret someone dropping by as inconvenient. I did bake bread for my neighbors for Christmas, and three of them went out of their way to tell me how much they enjoyed it, so I guess there’s that.

Thoughtful
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Re: How to find a new identity?

Post by Thoughtful » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:56 pm

I struggle with this too. I am introverted. I think about a lot of things- but they don't tend to be light. I feel like I can intentionally schmooze but it doesn't feel natural. More often, I smile and wave, but I'm on my way doing something. At conferences I enjoy going out but don't love that the dinners last hours and hours. I get antsy after 90 min. So I'm not part of the pack really. How do you find a clique when you're a nerd? How do you break into groups that have been present since HS, but you're a transplant, and just left a cult? I don't think they dislike me, but they aren't like me. I need a larger city where I can insert myself into a tribe.

hmb
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Re: How to find a new identity?

Post by hmb » Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:30 am

I always felt like a fish out of water at church. Back then I blamed it on not having the spirit. I didn't ever KNOW the church was true. I didn't have personal manifestations in the temple. I didn't enjoy callings the way it appeared everyone else did. Hahaha. But I did talk to people, even though I felt like I didn't measure up. Now I see that the way I felt is the norm. I could never go back though.

My "new" identity is to not have one. I live in a small town where I know 0 people. I know it's MY problem because I avoid people, while still wishing I knew somebody. That combination doesn't work, hahaha. I'm an introvert with anxiety in a social setting. On the plus side, I'm less likely to catch unwanted micro organisms :D.

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alas
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Re: How to find a new identity?

Post by alas » Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:36 am

I think it is necessary to remember how humans evolved. In small tribes based on family. It wasn’t until agriculture that tribes grew to be over 100. Now consider the size of our USA tribe, not to mention it’s Incompetent leader. So, it is no wonder that people are feeling lost and looking for community and connection.

The Mormon church sets up kind of a mini tribe and when it was based on small communities where everyone knew everyone, it was a community. But as a subgroup in huge communities, it has been failing the last 40 years as people complain about too many meetings, too many activities, and the church cut back in response. It was all those socials and meetings five times a week keeping the community involved and keeping it a community.

There were too many meetings precisely because it was a subgroup in a larger semi community with schools and clubs and everything else and people were too busy with the larger semi community to keep up with the necessary involvement to make church a real community.

But our instincts still need a group of 100 where we are accepted as is because we are part of the tribe, with family connections to the tribe, and while we may not be a popular member of the tribe, our tribe tolerates us cause tribe.

My sister is living in a community housing group where everybody owns the land and facilities jointly. Much more than a HOA because all members do the work such as grounds keeping. They have assigned jobs within the community, my sister is one of the grounds workers. Sometimes members of the community don’t even like each other, but they are stuck together as a tribe because of the community housing agreements and contract, so they tolerate each other. They have Thanksgiving together and I can never get her to come to family Thanksgiving because that community has always taken precedent over family on the holidays they celebrate as a community. It is kind of weird to have her in this community because they live together like a cult, but they are just a community.

Anyway, all I can do is describe the problem and it’s origins. Each person has to find the solution that works for them.

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