#Bringthemissionarieshome

[Hagoth]

There's an interesting urgent podcast on Mormon Stories. John Dehlin is trying to start a movement to get the church to pay attention to what's going on in their missions.

We have heard big news about a couple of missions sending the kids home, but it's left up to the mission presidents and Dehlin has been bombarded with email from people who are worried about their kids and parents on missions where the MPs are reporting that it's "business as usual." In fact some are encouraging more door-to-door tracting because social distancing has trapped people in their homes and made them more available to missionaries.

Apparently no regard is being given to the concern that the missionaries are potential vectors. Dehlin reads a letter from the Mexico City MP ensuring parents that since their kids are young and healthy, they are at low risk even if they do get it, so "business as usual."

There are people worried about their temple worker parents too. Even though it's just ordinances for the living there's still a lot of touching and handshaking going on.

[wtfluff]

President Newsroom has spoken:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... onary-work

... substantial numbers of missionaries will likely need to be returned to their home nations to continue their service. This will be done in a systematic way based on the urgency of travel restrictions, the level of COVID-19 concern, and other considerations...

[blazerb]

Those MPs are ignoring some important details. Even though the missionaries are low risk for dying, they are going to be the vectors, as you note. I have to think that some governments, including some in the US, are going to take a dim view of young people going door-to-door. These kids are being put in impossible situations. Missionaries always have been, I know. Now it's almost all of them violating the dictates of common sense and civic responsibility.

[Wonderment]

Even if they don't show symptoms, they can transmit the virus. I think it is extremely unwise for them to be going door-to-door and shaking hands, etc.
Since the church is canceling other face-to-face activities, IMO, the in-person proselytizing should also be canceled. ( In fact, I'd like to see all proselytizing canceled). Also stop sending missionaries on city buses and subways to proselytize.

Definitely agree that they should be brought home. -- Wndr.

[Red Ryder]

It’s starting to happen. The Church is chartering planes from Delta to fly many missionaries home.

If you’ve served 20 months or have health issues your most likely coming home.

One of our Nommies found out his kid is coming home tomorrow.

If you are a parent and you get an email, respond back immediately with health concerns for your child.

High chance they will be on a chartered flight soon.

[moksha]

Dehlin reads a letter from the Mexico City MP ensuring parents that since their kids are young and healthy, they are at low risk even if they do get it, so "business as usual."

So this Mission President was doing a risk assessment, weighing the health of the missionaries against a good report to send back to HQ.

I wonder how much of a health assessment the Church will give these kids before their flights home? Next to none? It would be a shame if the ward homecoming leads to an outbreak.

[nibbler]

President Newsroom has spoken:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... onary-work

... substantial numbers of missionaries will likely need to be returned to their home nations to continue their service. This will be done in a systematic way based on the urgency of travel restrictions, the level of COVID-19 concern, and other considerations...

Emphasis added.

The length of several missions is being cut short. How short no one knows, just the nebulous statement that missions will be shortened because there will be too many missionaries in the USA.

But I wanted to ask a serious question. Missionaries shouldn't be going door to door anywhere in the world right now. If the goal is social isolation then going door to door is out of the question. Visiting the homes of members for daily meals is out of the question. Missionaries would be at risk and only serve as pollinators for the virus.

Moreover, government officials the world over are calling for social isolation. So question time...

Do we still believe in the 12th article of faith?
If the missionaries can't leave their apartment, what's the point? What will the missionaries be doing?

Maybe the plan is for the new missionaries to stick it out, bunker up for 6-8 months and do nothing, then when things are more back to normal they'll have a year or so left to go about the work.

I understand it's a difficult and sad thing for a kid that really wants to be out there to have their mission cut short, but what other alternatives are there?

[Red Ryder]

For privacy reasons I’m not going to share locations but we have 3 missionaries out in my extended family. One is hunkered down in a third world country having been mandated by that country’s official mandate. One is sheltered in but can come and go to the market. They have been told and given money to stock up on essential food for 14 days but then told only to eat that in an emergency. They are still finding dinner appointments with members.

The third is in a US mission in the south. They are still knocking on doors every day because “people are home” and the lord is preparing people for baptism.

Outside of the family missionaries, we know multiple missionaries coming home early waiting to see what will happen of assigned to a stateside mission.

[Hagoth]

Maybe the plan is for the new missionaries to stick it out, bunker up for 6-8 months and do nothing, then when things are more back to normal they'll have a year or so left to go about the work.

One comment on the podcast was that the worst thing, from the church's point of view, would be to have missionaries with internet access confined indoors for a long period of time with nothing to do.

[Reuben]

Maybe the plan is for the new missionaries to stick it out, bunker up for 6-8 months and do nothing, then when things are more back to normal they'll have a year or so left to go about the work.

One comment on the podcast was that the worst thing, from the church's point of view, would be to have missionaries with internet access confined indoors for a long period of time with nothing to do.

Because porn or because doubt?

Or is that the same thing?

[Hagoth]

Maybe the plan is for the new missionaries to stick it out, bunker up for 6-8 months and do nothing, then when things are more back to normal they'll have a year or so left to go about the work.

One comment on the podcast was that the worst thing, from the church's point of view, would be to have missionaries with internet access confined indoors for a long period of time with nothing to do.

Because porn or because doubt?

Or is that the same thing?

Both, and yes.

[glass shelf]

There was one missionary in my extended family in a mission in a W. European country. They're back in the US in quarantine as of this week.

As my oldest kids near mission age, I'm once again greatful that the LDS church is in my family's rearview.

[blazerb]

Do you think there's anything to what John noted about GC being modified very early without any action to protect missionaries, temple workers, and other at-risk members? The leadership swung into action to protect "The Brethren," but left everyone else in the fray. I doubt it's malicious. It is probably that the GA's just don't think about the risks to everyone else.

[wtfluff]

Do you think there's anything to what John noted about GC being modified very early without any action to protect missionaries, temple workers, and other at-risk members? The leadership swung into action to protect "The Brethren," but left everyone else in the fray. I doubt it's malicious. It is probably that the GA's just don't think about the risks to everyone else.

Well... I don't know about anything malicious, but if you've seen the videos showing up today from the SLC airport, the families and friends of the returning missionaries are doing the exact opposite of what we think will protect the population from spread of the virus.

I saw a gathering of folks yesterday near my neighborhood and had no idea what they were up to, until this morning.

[nibbler]

Do you think there's anything to what John noted about GC being modified very early without any action to protect missionaries, temple workers, and other at-risk members? The leadership swung into action to protect "The Brethren," but left everyone else in the fray. I doubt it's malicious. It is probably that the GA's just don't think about the risks to everyone else.

I don't think the decision to modify general conference was rooted in, "What if I get sick?" I think it was more of a no-brainer, you shouldn't have people from the world over traveling and coming together in an auditorium with 20K people.

Large gathering aside, the leaders could ask members not to travel to general conference but I've seen how that works. People think the rules apply to others, that they are a special case, and come anyway. The only way to be sure is to close up shop, take that option away from people.

[Reuben]

Do you think there's anything to what John noted about GC being modified very early without any action to protect missionaries, temple workers, and other at-risk members? The leadership swung into action to protect "The Brethren," but left everyone else in the fray. I doubt it's malicious. It is probably that the GA's just don't think about the risks to everyone else.

I don't think the decision to modify general conference was rooted in, "What if I get sick?" I think it was more of a no-brainer, you shouldn't have people from the world over traveling and coming together in an auditorium with 20K people.

Large gathering aside, the leaders could ask members not to travel to general conference but I've seen how that works. People think the rules apply to others, that they are a special case, and come anyway. The only way to be sure is to close up shop, take that option away from people.

Yeah, we're seeing that in the UK. The government closed the pubs and restaurants partly because people weren't keeping their distance from each other.

I don't think there's much selfishness going on, frankly. There are probably plenty of shortsighted decisions and miscommunication, and some zealotry here and there. These things tend to get focused on and magnified in people's minds. But the Q15 really do love the members, in their overly paternalistic and conditional way.

Also, there are things we half-outsiders tend to forget when evaluating the church's actions.

1. Salvation is seen as equal in importance to life, which delays the response (the situation has to get more serious than it would otherwise).

2. Coordinated efforts at the scales the church operates in - with a population of a state or a small country - are logistically very difficult, which slows the response.

My biggest gripe right now is the lack of specific direction on how to carry out church business without those involved becoming transmission vectors. Most people need to be told things like "stick with the same tiny group of people for every activity and make the groups smaller when they involve those most at risk." There are plenty of mission presidents who would never figure out for themselves that a companionship visiting many members is a terrible idea. I doubt most bishops will immediately figure out that having giant web of active ministering contacts is also a terrible idea. (I've asked my wife to pass that on - she's in the RSP.)

Left to themselves, a lot of leaders will make the wrong calls, because reasoning about exponential growth and the transitive closure of a contact graph just doesn't come naturally to humans. IMO it's especially a problem with leaders who are used to just being told what to do and are therefore more apt to act on momentum.

[Hagoth]

These people would probably be outraged if more than 10 exmos congregated in a bar or coffee shop:

[moksha]

These people would probably be outraged if more than 10 exmos congregated in a bar or coffee shop:

Apparently there was even more greeters than in this photo. Health officials had requested that no more than two people come to the airport to pick up the missionaries and that they remain in their car.

In the LDS families' defense, they didn't care if this welcoming spread the pandemic. They have been welcoming missionaries home for over a hundred and fifty years. They tend not to believe what secular authorities tell them to do since the secular authorities are "of this world" while their own roots stem from the Kolobian Star System. They are a peculiar people and must behave accordingly, regardless of what health officials tell them.

[Hagoth]

They tend not to believe what secular authorities tell them to do since the secular authorities are "of this world" while their own roots stem from the Kolobian Star System. They are a peculiar people and must behave accordingly, regardless of what health officials tell them.

Pretty sad that the church remained silent on this. They would watch from afar with binoculars if told to do so by the proper authorities.

[jfro18]

I guess now they're bringing home everyone over 18 months? It's progress... even if they're behind every other corporation, sport, or government at this point.

But, yes, they should be home. There is no point in having them isolated for weeks (or months if they really want them to value safety over converts) on foreign soil.

Of course a real prophet would have made that move back in December or January.