Still in anger stage

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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2bizE
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Still in anger stage

Post by 2bizE » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:40 am

I’m still in the anger stage from my faith crisis. I just want to admit it. I’m stuck in this phase because most of my family, both sides, are TBM and I see no light at the end of the tunnel. I want to get to the apathy stage where I just don’t give a hoot. Seems hard to move on without a lot of family disruption. I’m trying to be patient and that others will fall down the rabbit hole.
~2bizE

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Red Ryder
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Re: Still in anger stage

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:17 am

What’s your anger cycle like?

For me it was upcoming events like baptisms, ordinations, tithing settlement, etc. I’m passed those all now with older kids. I still get annoyed at the never ending chatter but don’t seem to get bothered as much.

I’ve also limited my online Mormonism to NOM and a few other places I read. Dumping online Mormonism will be my final detachment but won’t happen while wife as still on.

So my advice. Embrace the anger and let it refocus your mental state to other things that you enjoy.

Talk to others about it in person. IRL Nom group, therapist, or whoever.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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jfro18
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Re: Still in anger stage

Post by jfro18 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:03 pm

2bizE wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:40 am
I’m still in the anger stage from my faith crisis. I just want to admit it. I’m stuck in this phase because most of my family, both sides, are TBM and I see no light at the end of the tunnel. I want to get to the apathy stage where I just don’t give a hoot. Seems hard to move on without a lot of family disruption. I’m trying to be patient and that others will fall down the rabbit hole.
I'm with you... I could get away from this instantly if my wife were to talk with me on this stuff, but since she refuses to even talk about it I can't escape it.

Her family has missionaries out so they have groups that text about that and church stuff, and then the daily little things like garments, teaching our kid bible stories that are beyond fictional, watching her take out money for fast offerings every month, garments, how she follows DezNat types on Twitter who are beyond bats%$^ crazy but won't talk to me about basic church stuff, etc... I will never escape it and while I've gotten better about trying to ignore it, there are reminders every single day.

So I'm with you, and my hope of her ever going down the rabbit hole drops every day as I watch her surround herself with the "alt-right" Mormon style sources... it's really a hopeless feeling, but it is what it is.

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wtfluff
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Re: Still in anger stage

Post by wtfluff » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:19 pm

I've typed it before, and I'll type it again: I'll likely be done with the anger phase, when I die.

Too many family members who are "all-in." No way to actually communicate about any of it with them, so I just stew in my own apostasy, and complain about it with NOM/exmo/other friends who are willing to listen to me whine now and then.

I'm sure things will slowly get better as time passes, but I really don't even see a hint of light at the end of the tunnel at this point.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

We are secrets to each other

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Emower
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Re: Still in anger stage

Post by Emower » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:17 pm

I understand your anger phases. I didn’t think that I would have gotten past my anger either. I have, by the grace of his noodley holiness. And I will acknowledge that the reason is largely because of concessions that my spouse and I have both made.

If your family remains with the thought that you are the crazy one, it’s going to be hard to continue past the anger because you just have to swallow your concerns in the face of overwhelmimg opposition. That sucks. My only advice is to make sure you aren’t acting crazy. I don’t know what that means for anyone’s situation in particular.

The inability to get validation from loved ones is what I think why we stay in the anger zone so long. Getting to the point where validation from yourself is most important is likely the key. Really digging deep on why you need someone else’s approval for your beliefs is important to understand how to move forward. In some cases it’s obvious (your wife will divorce you, or turn cold, if you don’t toe the line), but in my case it was not that obvious. Basically, I realized that I didn’t trust the genuineness of our relationship if she didn’t agree with me. That took some conversations to get past. But I didn’t realize that until I had thought a ton about why validation from her was important to me.

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Angel
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Re: Still in anger stage

Post by Angel » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:50 am

2bizE wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:40 am
I’m still in the anger stage from my faith crisis. I just want to admit it. I’m stuck in this phase because most of my family, both sides, are TBM and I see no light at the end of the tunnel. I want to get to the apathy stage where I just don’t give a hoot. Seems hard to move on without a lot of family disruption. I’m trying to be patient and that others will fall down the rabbit hole.
The thing that ended the anger phase for me was finding a new set of beliefs, and finding peace within it. I share my new belief system with others in a positive and friendly way when they share their beliefs with me. I am not "fallen", I am not "unfaithful", I am not "deceived" - instead I am now exploring a new "stage of faith", am embracing being connected with more "brothers and sisters" (not embracing "the world", embracing "people"), am civically engaged doing volunteer work.

Do something for you - put your own oxygen mask on first and all that. Decide on exercise or healthy diet, perhaps take an online class, or volunteer with a local organization... It takes a little extra self-care to feel good about yourself when others are confused and tearing you down.

Also, hang out with other ex-mo's, I'm sure there are a few in your area? That is also really really helpful as they know what you are going through.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Hagoth
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Re: Still in anger stage

Post by Hagoth » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:49 pm

I was in a really good place, but the thing that has got me worked up again had been getting all of these emails from local leaders gushing about how this pandemic illustrates so clearly that we are being guided by a living prophet, when I think it makes it so transparently obvious that we are not.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Still in anger stage

Post by Mormorrisey » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:19 pm

I'm one of those people that don't suffer fools gladly, so I only get back into the anger phase when I hear/see/experience something truly stupid that the church does, local leader asshattery (which isn't very often, honestly) or reading TBM Facebook. Unfortunately that's fairly often, but now I find that only from time to time that I get truly angry about something the church does, a local policy, or something I read about. So it depends on how I feel that day, how truly stupid what's going on, and a variety of other factors going on in my life before I get truly worked up.

I think that's a good place to be - especially given that I react to similar things the same way, not just to Mormonism.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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Palerider
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Re: Still in anger stage

Post by Palerider » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:38 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:49 pm
I was in a really good place, but the thing that has got me worked up again had been getting all of these emails from local leaders gushing about how this pandemic illustrates so clearly that we are being guided by a living prophet, when I think it makes it so transparently obvious that we are not.
In some ways we want so badly to rain on someone's parade. Especially when they're celebrating the undeserving. And if we DO rain on their parade we end up being a nasty ogre. There's no winning here. :|
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Hagoth
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Re: Still in anger stage

Post by Hagoth » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:13 pm

Palerider wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:38 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:49 pm
I was in a really good place, but the thing that has got me worked up again had been getting all of these emails from local leaders gushing about how this pandemic illustrates so clearly that we are being guided by a living prophet, when I think it makes it so transparently obvious that we are not.
In some ways we want so badly to rain on someone's parade. Especially when they're celebrating the undeserving. And if we DO rain on their parade we end up being a nasty ogre. There's no winning here. :|
You're absolutely right. Calling BS on religious leaders of any faith tradition only puts you in league with the devil in their followers' eyes. Facts are a coinage of very little value in an economy of irrational conformity.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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2bizE
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Re: Still in anger stage

Post by 2bizE » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:32 pm

Angel wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:50 am
2bizE wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:40 am
I’m still in the anger stage from my faith crisis. I just want to admit it. I’m stuck in this phase because most of my family, both sides, are TBM and I see no light at the end of the tunnel. I want to get to the apathy stage where I just don’t give a hoot. Seems hard to move on without a lot of family disruption. I’m trying to be patient and that others will fall down the rabbit hole.
The thing that ended the anger phase for me was finding a new set of beliefs, and finding peace within it. I share my new belief system with others in a positive and friendly way when they share their beliefs with me. I am not "fallen", I am not "unfaithful", I am not "deceived" - instead I am now exploring a new "stage of faith", am embracing being connected with more "brothers and sisters" (not embracing "the world", embracing "people"), am civically engaged doing volunteer work.

Do something for you - put your own oxygen mask on first and all that. Decide on exercise or healthy diet, perhaps take an online class, or volunteer with a local organization... It takes a little extra self-care to feel good about yourself when others are confused and tearing you down.

Also, hang out with other ex-mo's, I'm sure there are a few in your area? That is also really really helpful as they know what you are going through.
This is very helpful. Thank you. I’ve never sat down and decided what I believe. I know what I don’t believe.
~2bizE

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Hagoth
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Re: Still in anger stage

Post by Hagoth » Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:25 am

2bizE wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:32 pm
I’ve never sat down and decided what I believe. I know what I don’t believe.
The great thing is that once we graduate from group-think we have new opportunities to grow. We can try on a few things until we find what fits, or we can just go on exploring for the rest of our lives. Just don't fall into another hole!

In Mormonism we are doctrinaly fed for a few years and then we are expected to spend the rest of our lives in brain freeze trying not to have curiosity or to find inspiration anywhere else. If you are able to pick that lock the door opens on a universe of possibilities.

One danger we all encounter is that Mormonism has trained us to be too black-and-white, so we are in danger of just flipping the coin from Mormon to exMormon and getting stuck there. It's not a bad place to be for a while because you discover that those scary apostates are some of the most interesting and enlightened people you will ever encounter. And they're not secretly miserable like you always assumed!
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Palerider
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Re: Still in anger stage

Post by Palerider » Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:37 am

Hagoth wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:25 am
2bizE wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:32 pm
I’ve never sat down and decided what I believe. I know what I don’t believe.
The great thing is that once we graduate from group-think we have new opportunities to grow. We can try on a few things until we find what fits, or we can just go on exploring for the rest of our lives. Just don't fall into another hole!
I had an instructor in my profession a number of years ago who said something that really helped me find my way when I left the church.

"You have to set your own standards of excellence."

Choosing what to leave in and what to leave out isn't always easy. But it can make such a difference in the quality of the rest of your life.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Angel
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Re: Still in anger stage

Post by Angel » Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:53 am

Those who are not familiar with the Perry stages of intellectual and ethical development (and other similar models) - might as well start with wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_G._Perry

Most people do not reach the higher stages... from relying on authority figures, to becoming your own authority figure →

Pay attention to what the highest stage is:
Believe own values, respect others, be ready to learn e.g. "I know what I believe in and what I think is valid, others may think differently and I'm prepared to reconsider my views"
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

Wonderment
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Re: Still in anger stage

Post by Wonderment » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:24 pm

Hagoth wrote:
I was in a really good place, but the thing that has got me worked up again had been getting all of these emails from local leaders gushing about how this pandemic illustrates so clearly that we are being guided by a living prophet, when I think it makes it so transparently obvious that we are not.
Absolutely correct. If the so-called "living prophet" knew that God was sending a pandemic and therefore the upcoming April conference was going to be "unforgettable", then why didn't he advise people as to what was coming? This nonsense makes me angry also. :evil: - Wndr.

Reuben
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Re: Still in anger stage

Post by Reuben » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:21 pm

What is it about these specific people making confirmation bias into a way of life that makes us angry? (If it were anyone else, I could easily shrug it off.) What pain or fear causes the anger? What are we protecting?
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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Palerider
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Re: Still in anger stage

Post by Palerider » Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:24 pm

Reuben wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:21 pm
What is it about these specific people making confirmation bias into a way of life that makes us angry? (If it were anyone else, I could easily shrug it off.) What pain or fear causes the anger? What are we protecting?
Doesn't that anger grow out of our own involvement as participants and the subsequent feeling of betrayal after our "wake-up" call?

Once we wake up it seems so obvious what a fraud has been perpetrated on us, it becomes difficult to believe others can be SO obtuse that they can't see it for what it is. We want to shout, "What the hell is wrong with you that you can't see this?"

To add to our frustration is the fact that those who still believe now see us as deceived enemies. A difficult pill to swallow from those who should still be our friends and loving families; who should actually be thanking us for helping them to see the truth. But the fraud continues.

No wonder we're angry......
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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