Overjoyed...

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Hagoth
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Overjoyed...

Post by Hagoth » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:18 am

...that I am no longer entangled in their powerplay and I have to reinvent that conference into something meaningful and inspirational. I was curious about what would make it so special. I think I'll go back to sitting them out.

90% of conference was just one big advertisement for the church and its leaders. Apologetics about why you should believe. There were lots of mentions of "those who leave." Uctdorf was the only one who even suggested that those people might actually have reasons (although wrong!) for why they felt they needed to get out.

I just feel sad today for the millions of people who sat there hour after hour just waiting to hear a little bit of Christianity, encouragement, and inspiration. And then when it came it was nothing special or revelatory, just some nice words that you could hear in any church (and even those had an agenda attached). And yet they will play along and praise it as the greatest thing since sliced bagels.

Take for instance the new proclamation. Sheesh. Just a general statement about the core wackiness. Now it's going to be memorized by millions and framed on the wall of every home. And they will call it revelation from God when it's really more like a Wikipedia summary of what Mormons believe.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Red Ryder
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Re: Overjoyed...

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:50 am

I’m just left flabbergasted at the stupidity of the whole thing. Then watching the TBM friends And family all eat it up. The emperor has no clothes on!

I even feel bad for making fun of it all now because it’s like picking on the kid that eats boogers and just wants a recess friend.

The oaks “ left shark rendition” of the hosanna shout was just too much.

Memorable conference? Probably the most memorable in my lifetime for sure.

And Uchtdorf? I know he’s a fan favorite but deep down he’s no different then the rest. He just plays the role fully knowing he gets all the Mormon ladies garments in a tussle.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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Corsair
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Re: Overjoyed...

Post by Corsair » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:52 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:18 am
Take for instance the new proclamation. Sheesh. Just a general statement about the core wackiness. Now it's going to be memorized by millions and framed on the wall of every home. And they will call it revelation from God when it's really more like a Wikipedia summary of what Mormons believe.
That new proclamation was pretty much just the first and second missionary discussion. The "One True Church" idea is reaffirmed along with Joseph Smith as the critically important prophet and the historicity of the Book of Mormon. It will probably please the orthodox, annoy the liberals, and continue to be entirely irrelevant to non-believers.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Overjoyed...

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:03 pm

The proclamation leaves one important question unanswered:

Will the new proclamation fit into one wall frame or will it be a three frame set?
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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glass shelf
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Re: Overjoyed...

Post by glass shelf » Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:07 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:03 pm
The proclamation leaves one important question unanswered:

Will the new proclamation fit into one wall frame or will it be a three frame set?
Probably depends on if you buy it directy from the org or look for a fancier version that some Mormon is selling on etsy to afford shoes for their kids because they spent that money on tithing.

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glass shelf
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Re: Overjoyed...

Post by glass shelf » Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:07 pm

I've only read about conference talks on here. not having to pretend to care about Mormonism or try to make it into something meaningful is a beautiful gift, though. :D

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Fifi de la Vergne
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Re: Overjoyed...

Post by Fifi de la Vergne » Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:21 pm

I tuned in briefly Saturday morning because I felt in need of some comfort and inspiration and . . . I couldn't take more than about 90 seconds of whoever-that-was droning on about what-ever-it-was (JS? Restoration?).

I think at least a portion of the world is ripe for a prophet right now -- I guess if there's a silver lining to this conference it's that their message wasn't compelling enough to suck anybody new into believing that LDS Inc. has one.
Joy is the emotional expression of the courageous Yes to one's own true being.

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Not Buying It
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Re: Overjoyed...

Post by Not Buying It » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:04 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:50 am
And Uchtdorf? I know he’s a fan favorite but deep down he’s no different then the rest. He just plays the role fully knowing he gets all the Mormon ladies garments in a tussle.
Yep - Uchdorf is no different, just more charismatic, charming, and smoother. NOMs like to talk like he's the Martin Luther of Mormonism, but he hasn't done jack to try and change the system, has he? He supports it, he maintains it, he helps lead it - he just knows how to make you feel all warm and fuzzy while he's doing it.

Elder Bednar's repellent nature makes his dangerousness easy to see, same with President Oaks and most of the rest - Elder Uchtdorf is far more dangerous than all of them, because his threat is cleverly concealed. Joseph Smith proved quite conclusively that the armed bandit with the gun isn't the robber you should fear most.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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2bizE
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Re: Overjoyed...

Post by 2bizE » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:22 pm

Corsair wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:52 am
Hagoth wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:18 am
Take for instance the new proclamation. Sheesh. Just a general statement about the core wackiness. Now it's going to be memorized by millions and framed on the wall of every home. And they will call it revelation from God when it's really more like a Wikipedia summary of what Mormons believe.
That new proclamation was pretty much just the first and second missionary discussion. The "One True Church" idea is reaffirmed along with Joseph Smith as the critically important prophet and the historicity of the Book of Mormon. It will probably please the orthodox, annoy the liberals, and continue to be entirely irrelevant to non-believers.
Completely agree about the Proclamation. Why is one needed when thousands of missionaries go around and tell folks the same thing. There is one reason: for RMN to check it off his bucket list that he made a proclamation to the world. That’s it. It seems irrelevant otherwise
~2bizE

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2bizE
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Re: Overjoyed...

Post by 2bizE » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:34 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:18 am
...that I am no longer entangled in their powerplay and I have to reinvent that conference into something meaningful and inspirational. I was curious about what would make it so special. I think I'll go back to sitting them out.

90% of conference was just one big advertisement for the church and its leaders. Apologetics about why you should believe. There were lots of mentions of "those who leave." Uctdorf was the only one who even suggested that those people might actually have reasons (although wrong!) for why they felt they needed to get out.

I just feel sad today for the millions of people who sat there hour after hour just waiting to hear a little bit of Christianity, encouragement, and inspiration. And then when it came it was nothing special or revelatory, just some nice words that you could hear in any church (and even those had an agenda attached). And yet they will play along and praise it as the greatest thing since sliced bagels.

Take for instance the new proclamation. Sheesh. Just a general statement about the core wackiness. Now it's going to be memorized by millions and framed on the wall of every home. And they will call it revelation from God when it's really more like a Wikipedia summary of what Mormons believe.
Hagoth, I think you missed the message of Mr. Cooks discourse on Sunday afternoon. He wants You to come back.
He said “We Need You! The Church needs you! The Lord needs you! We need your tithing. How the hell else do you think we can pay for the new Chateau Temple in Abu Dhabi? Dip into our rainy day fund? Not! And there are palacial building standard in Abu Dhabi. The celestial room has to have solid gold chandeliers and a gold plated Rolls Royce. We need your money so come back. Members will welcome all with open arms except married gay people.”
~2bizE

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Hagoth
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Re: Overjoyed...

Post by Hagoth » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:25 pm

2bizE wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:34 pm
Hagoth, I think you missed the message of Mr. Cooks discourse on Sunday afternoon. He wants You to come back.
What really grates on me is the way they use the word "truth" when talking about people who no longer believe. They left because they didn't care ab out truth. I love the way they characterize us as people who poke shallowly around the internet and just believe any old rumor we read. They don't have the slightest clue of how dismissive and idiotic their words sound to the people who have agonizingly lost their entire worldview and jeopardized their relationships precisely because they realized they had to accept real, actual truth over the church's own patent-pending version of "truth."
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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jfro18
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Re: Overjoyed...

Post by jfro18 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:51 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:25 pm
What really grates on me is the way they use the word "truth" when talking about people who no longer believe. They left because they didn't care ab out truth. I love the way they characterize us as people who poke shallowly around the internet and just believe any old rumor we read. They don't have the slightest clue of how dismissive and idiotic their words sound to the people who have agonizingly lost their entire worldview and jeopardized their relationships precisely because they realized they had to accept real, actual truth over the church's own patent-pending version of "truth."
What grates on me even more is that they are so effective as telling members what their feelings are.

Not only can DW not talk to me about church stuff because it "makes her uncomfortable," but a few weeks ago we were talking about politics and tribalism, and somehow she brought up Jim Jones and cults... she then said she doesn't know a lot about their history and I said it's good to learn how that happened and to read about how the people bought into it, and she said reading about it makes her uncomfortable.

The only reason that would make her feel uncomfortable is because she knows there are parallels to the church, but these leaders do such a great job of equating discomfort with "the adversary" that she will not even look at it.

So one one hand we're painted as petulant children and on the other hand they are told any new information that makes them feel awkward is the devil.

What a toxic combination.

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Palerider
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Re: Overjoyed...

Post by Palerider » Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:07 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:51 pm
Jim Jones and cults... she then said she doesn't know a lot about their history and I said it's good to learn how that happened and to read about how the people bought into it, and she said reading about it makes her uncomfortable.....

The only reason that would make her feel uncomfortable is because she knows there are parallels to the church....
I don't know....

There are some people in the world who just don't deal well with any kind of disturbing behavior in general. They're a little over-sensitive and when placed in difficult, harsh or clutch situations they sometimes just go fetal or kind of catatonic.
They don't mind cooking steaks but heaven forbid they should have to see a beef being slaughtered. They like having chicken for dinner but they could never bring themselves to cut ones head off.

Having been raised in a rural farming community and as a hunter in the 50s/60s I saw a great deal that would make most people squirm badly. Sometimes truth is a really brutal thing. It can toughen and grow you up in a hurry. It can be emotionally crushing.

For some avoidance is the best answer.

ETA: The thing about life however is that it doesn't seem to let us avoid it forever. Sooner or later we all have to face something that seems too much to bear. Possibly even horrific. Those times seem to go especially hard on sensitive souls who never have confronted difficulty and truth head on before.
Last edited by Palerider on Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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jfro18
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Re: Overjoyed...

Post by jfro18 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:17 pm

Palerider wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:07 pm
There are some people in the world who just don't deal well with any kind of disturbing behavior in general. They're a little over-sensitive and when placed in difficult, harsh or clutch situations they sometimes just go fetal or kind of catatonic.
They don't mind cooking steaks but heaven forbid they should have to see a beef being slaughtered. They like having chicken for dinner but they could never bring themselves to cut ones head off.

For some avoidance is the best answer.
That's definitely true, and there are a lot of things I avoid just because I want no part of it (seeing animals slaughtered would be one of those).

She reads sad and weird stuff all the time though... this is definitely an area where she retreats quicker than others.

I think deep down she knows the issues are there from when we talked about it way back when, but if you don't look at them you can keep the worries at bay.

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Hagoth
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Re: Overjoyed...

Post by Hagoth » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:50 pm

Palerider wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:07 pm
They like having chicken for dinner but they could never bring themselves to cut ones head off.
It's the ones who like cutting the heads off but aren't interested in eating them that you have to worry about!
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Palerider
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Re: Overjoyed...

Post by Palerider » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:12 am

jfro18 wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:17 pm

I think deep down she knows the issues are there from when we talked about it way back when, but if you don't look at them you can keep the worries at bay.
Hmm...

More of a, "If I don't look at it, it isn't there." type, I guess.

You never know. Someday she might get a close look at the inner workings of the church and realize on her own that there's something rotten there.

That's what happened with Mrs. Palerider. She was serving in the Relief Society stake presidency and had to be a part of the planning meetings held with the Stake President. She saw how dismissive the Pres. was with the Relief Society president and suddenly the light came on.
It was offensive, yes but that in and of itself wasn't the kicker. It was that she finally realized where the arrogance grew out of.

The doctrine creates the culture. Joseph Smith authored the doctrine. Ding! :idea:
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Palerider
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Re: Overjoyed...

Post by Palerider » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:29 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:50 pm
Palerider wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:07 pm
They like having chicken for dinner but they could never bring themselves to cut ones head off.
It's the ones who like cutting the heads off but aren't interested in eating them that you have to worry about!
Yep. Keep a close eye on those people. We had some that were damn scary. :)
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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