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100% Jesus
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:46 am
by Mackman
I had a conversation with an evangelical about wanting to leave the church but I love my wife more than I hate the church so I stay for her . He told me I have to give 100% to Jesus and leave the church , if she comes with me good if she leaves me oh well I can find someone else. I'm not about to destroy my family , to me the family will always be the highest priority !!!! I would be interested in the Nomie family take on this ???
Re: 100% Jesus
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:03 am
by Not Buying It
Glad you aren't going to listen to him. He is no different than those twisted members who tell TBMs to leave their doubting spouses. There are times when there is no other recourse to breaking up a family over religious differences, but it should be a last resort, not the first one. Besides - give 100% to Jesus? Which Jesus? The evangelical version? The Catholic version? The Methodist version? The Episcopalian version? Jesus can be a very different deity depending on the lens of the religion you are viewing him through- what makes this guy think his Jesus is the one to give 100% to?
"I love my wife more than I hate the Church" - how many times I have used that phrase myself. But you are right - family should be the highest priority.
Anyway, someone shouldn't break up their family over religious differences unless they really, really have to. Giving up your family for a "Jesus" that may or may not be imaginary would be stupid. Your family is real and right there with you - Jesus may not be, and no matter what anybody says, they don't know one way or the other.
Re: 100% Jesus
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:40 am
by Palerider
Evangelicals are as reticent to admit shortcomings in their own version of the Gospel as are Mormons or JW's.
I don't want to make assumptions here Mackman but I'm under the impression you are somewhat agnostic regarding Christ/God anyway. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
So regardless of leaving or staying with your family, it wouldn't make you a believer anyway would it? Doesn't this actually put your wife in the position of being the believer in Christ and yourself as the non-believer? Again, correct me if I'm not rightly understanding your situation.
An observation I have made before is that the LDS church is analogous to a fruit tree that has had wild branches or false doctrines grafted into it. Which is why it yields both good and bad fruit. Christ is there but one has to dig through a lot of trash to find Him, just as in many other churches, including evangelicals.
The basis for your evangelical friend's "judgement" is found in Matt 10:37-38
"He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me."
For still believing Mormons such as your wife, not only have they taken up their cross of belief in Christ but they have been additionally loaded down with the heavy and useless doctrines of men. Remember Christ said "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." I doubt many Mormons truly find "rest for their souls" in the LDS church, but they do occasionally find those small true nuggets of Christ that reinforce their desire to stay. However, the majority of their reticence to leave is fed by fear.
I think most non-believing family members would look on their believing member with some degree of allowance. But for those whose family members give the believer an ultimatum, saying "You must choose between us and Christ", then I would say the scripture above gives us the counsel we need to follow. But even that doesn't necessarily entail leaving one's family unless the family absolutely will not tolerate the believer.
The true implication of the Matthew 10 scripture is that it is the non-believing family member who is forcing the situation here, not the believer. Will you allow a family member to force you to stop believing in Christ after He has given you good reason to have faith in Him?"
If the shoe were on the other foot and your wife was the non-believer, I have the feeling that as long as you as a Christian were a good husband and showed her your full love and respect, I doubt she would force you to decide between herself and Christ.
Anyway, those are some of my thoughts.
Re: 100% Jesus
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:22 am
by alas
Palerider wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:40 am
Evangelicals are as reticent to admit shortcomings in their own version of the Gospel as are Mormons or JW's.
I don't want to make assumptions here Mackman but I'm under the impression you are somewhat agnostic regarding Christ/God anyway. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
So regardless of leaving or staying with your family, it wouldn't make you a believer anyway would it? Doesn't this actually put your wife in the position of being the believer in Christ and yourself as the non-believer? Again, correct me if I'm not rightly understanding your situation.
An observation I have made before is that the LDS church is analogous to a fruit tree that has had wild branches or false doctrines grafted into it. Which is why it yields both good and bad fruit. Christ is there but one has to dig through a lot of trash to find Him, just as in many other churches, including evangelicals.
The basis for your evangelical friend's "judgement" is found in Matt 10:37-38
"He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me."
For still believing Mormons such as your wife, not only have they taken up their cross of belief in Christ but they have been additionally loaded down with the heavy and useless doctrines of men. Remember Christ said "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." I doubt many Mormons truly find "rest for their souls" in the LDS church, but they do occasionally find those small true nuggets of Christ that reinforce their desire to stay. However, the majority of their reticence to leave is fed by fear.
I think most non-believing family members would look on their believing member with some degree of allowance. But for those whose family members give the believer an ultimatum, saying "You must choose between us and Christ", then I would say the scripture above gives us the counsel we need to follow. But even that doesn't necessarily entail leaving one's family unless the family absolutely will not tolerate the believer.
The true implication of the Matthew 10 scripture is that
it is the non-believing family member who is forcing the situation here, not the believer. Will you allow a family member to force you to stop believing in Christ after He has given you good reason to have faith in Him?"
If the shoe were on the other foot and your wife was the non-believer, I have the feeling that as long as you as a Christian were a good husband and showed her your full love and respect, I doubt she would force you to decide between herself and Christ.
Anyway, those are some of my thoughts.
This.
Besides, your evangelical friend will not think you have accepted Christ until you convert to *his* version of Christianity. He thinks Mormons are not even Christian, so from his perspective, he might be correct. But is one apostate version of Christianity better than another version of apostate Christianity. But he really is not talking about leaving Mormonism, but of converting to *HIS* version of Christianity.
That scripture is for those who were Jews, and they convert to Christianity and their Jewish family say, if you become Christian, then you are dead to me. Remember that scene in Fiddler on the Roof where Hava marries the Christian boy and her father tells her mother that she is dead to them because in order to marry the boy in the Catholic Church she had to be baptized.
But from your wife’s perspective, leaving the church would be leaving Christianity. It is all a matter of perspective and your friend is arrogant enough to think his perspective is the only correct one. But he built Christ up in his own image and now worships this invented version of Christianity. He doesn’t worship Christ, who said of the man who was not a follower, but casting out devils in Christ’s name, that he who is not against us is for us. He said of this man who was not one of his followers, that his followers should leave him be. So, all of the Christian sects, if they are not against Christ, they are for him and he accepts them. This is the mistake Mormons make and evangelicals make. (In my opinion of course) Jesus doesn’t care which apostate version of Christianity you follow, as long as you follow him and not some man.
I had a Mormon friend who converted to evangicalism and we discussed this. If you believe in Christ and accept him as Savior, then according to the evangelicals themselves then you are saved even if you happen to be Mormon, so why do you need to join their church when you are saved already by your beliefs? According to their own definitions, you are saved, but they really can’t accept that because they want you under their control, not still going to the Mormon church. Makes them crazy.
Re: 100% Jesus
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:41 am
by Red Ryder
You mean 99.9% Jesus if you consider the holes in his hands and feet!
Re: 100% Jesus
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:06 pm
by 2bizE
My wife and I are struggling. She insists the Loch Ness Monster is true. She can’t get it through her skull that is isn’t real. Additionally, she criticizes me for planning a week-long trip to search for Big Foot with my local Sasquatch club next week.
Re: 100% Jesus
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:30 pm
by Mackman
One other tidbit I would like to throw in is I was reading a book about near death experiences and this person that died said God didnt care about Doctrine. he cared about how we treat each other !!! Food for thought . Thanks !!
Re: 100% Jesus
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:23 pm
by Red Ryder
2bizE wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:06 pm
My wife and I are struggling. She insists the Loch Ness Monster is true. She can’t get it through her skull that is isn’t real. Additionally, she criticizes me for planning a week-long trip to search for Big Foot with my local Sasquatch club next week.
Hilarious! And I agree.
Re: 100% Jesus
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:59 pm
by MerrieMiss
Your life is yours to live. If you are happy loving your wife/family more than the church, great. If leaving them and embracing Jesus makes you happier, great. Your friend can do what he wants with his life and live with the consequences.
And it isn’t just evangelicals or non-Mormons. I’ve spent years reading this dialogue online. I wasn’t a good enough exmo because I wasn’t doing it right. I need to rip the band-aid off faster! I needed to slow down. I needed to drink alcohol/coffee/ditch garments/tithing/etc. I needed to be mad at the church for the same reason as someone else. I needed to resign. I needed to get divorced. But in the end, it’s me and my life. I can be mad or not at the church for any reason I please. I don’t ever have to drink alcohol if I don’t want to. I can believe in god or not. I can compromise with my spouse or not. My decisions are for me to make.
Don’t let other people bluster their way into your life and tell you how to live it. They can blow up your life and walk away. You are the one who has to live with it.
Re: 100% Jesus
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:35 pm
by moksha
When you stop and consider that evangelicals believe Donald Trump is divinely inspired, it might give you some sense that their advice on your marriage might not be up to snuff.
Re: 100% Jesus
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:38 am
by Hagoth
2bizE wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:06 pm
My wife and I are struggling. She insists the Loch Ness Monster is true. She can’t get it through her skull that is isn’t real. Additionally, she criticizes me for planning a week-long trip to search for Big Foot with my local Sasquatch club next week.
You're both barking up the wrong tree. The Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot are deceptive illusions created by the alien overlords to distract us from their cattle circles and crop mutilations.
Re: 100% Jesus
Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 12:39 pm
by Random
Mackman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:46 am
I had a conversation with an evangelical about wanting to leave the church but I love my wife more than I hate the church so I stay for her . He told me I have to give 100% to Jesus and leave the church , if she comes with me good if she leaves me oh well I can find someone else. I'm not about to destroy my family , to me the family will always be the highest priority !!!! I would be interested in the Nomie family take on this ???
I think your family is most important.
You can give all you have to Jesus and be in any Church at all, really. The idea that you can't seems to me to stem from someone who thinks their own personal version of truth is God's own 100% truth. The same trap we were in earlier in our lives with the present Church.
Re: 100% Jesus
Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 12:41 pm
by Random
Not Buying It wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:03 am
Besides - give 100% to Jesus? Which Jesus? The evangelical version? The Catholic version? The Methodist version? The Episcopalian version? Jesus can be a very different deity depending on the lens of the religion you are viewing him through- what makes this guy think his Jesus is the one to give 100% to?
alas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:22 am
Besides, your evangelical friend will not think you have accepted Christ until you convert to *his* version of Christianity. He thinks Mormons are not even Christian, so from his perspective, he might be correct. But is one apostate version of Christianity better than another version of apostate Christianity. But he really is not talking about leaving Mormonism, but of converting to *HIS* version of Christianity.
Exactly!
Re: 100% Jesus
Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 12:47 pm
by Random
Mackman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:30 pm
One other tidbit I would like to throw in is I was reading a book about near death experiences and this person that died said God didnt care about Doctrine. he cared about how we treat each other !!! Food for thought . Thanks !!
I see that in the majority of near death experiences I've read. The number one thing is how you have treated others. Another one, but not as prevalent as the first, is What have you learned (but always, in these cases, the other one is there also).
