LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
Post Reply
User avatar
Just This Guy
Posts: 1084
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:30 pm
Location: Almost Heaven

LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by Just This Guy » Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:18 am

According to the US Department of Education, LDS schools received over $54.1M in US government assistance as part of the CARES stimulus program.

https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ ... resact.pdf

BYU $32.3M
BYU-H $2.3M
BYU-I $18.1M
LDSBC $1.4M

So the church's doctrine that you should never accept government assistance except as an absolute last resort, only applies to church members, not the church itself. Forget about the $130,000M+ rainy day fund. No need to touch that. it's too sacred.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

User avatar
2bizE
Posts: 1702
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:33 pm

Re: LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by 2bizE » Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:15 pm

There was a write up about this in the SLtrib i believe. The intent is to support student workers. The funding was applied based on students who qualify for federal grants. BYU got significantly more than other Utah schools because most BYU students are married, not qualifying as dependents on their parent’s income taxes, and therefore qualify for grants.
Those at other Utah schools tend to be unmarried and still listed as dependents to their parents.

I hope BYU uses this to support students who couldn’t work during this pandemic.
~2bizE

User avatar
Red Ryder
Posts: 2683
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:25 pm

The column on the right is the minimum amount that has to be allocated to students as emergency federal financial aid.

Of BYU’s 32M, half or 16M has to be passed through to students.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 3079
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by moksha » Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:42 pm

BYU received more of this federal emergency money than did any of the public universities in Utah.
Of BYU’s 32M, half or 16M has to be passed through to students.
The remaining $16 million will be sent to Ensign Peak Investments.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

User avatar
Red Ryder
Posts: 2683
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:26 am

This isn’t as nefarious as it looks. The church didn’t exactly say “Hey let’s apply so we can receive money and not spend our own.”

Even Harvard received money.
The CARES Act — the largest economic stimulus package in American history — was signed into law on March 27. It allocates nearly $14 billion to support higher education institutions during the ongoing coronavirus pandemic.

Of the $8,655,748 Harvard is slated to receive, the government has mandated that at least half — $4,327,874 — be reserved for emergency financial aid grants to students.

The Department of Education will distribute the first $6.28 billion to colleges and universities to cover expenses such as course materials, technology, food, and housing students have incurred “related to disruptions in their education due to the COVID-19 outbreak,” according to a April 9 press release.

The Department of Education is requiring universities to sign a certification agreeing to the conditions of use before they can access the funding, but each school may allocate the financial aid funds at their own discretion.

The Department of Education allocated most of the $14 billion in funds based on two factors: the share of recipients of federal Pell Grants, and overall undergraduate and graduate enrollment numbers. It weighted the proportion of Pell Grant recipients as a factor at 75 percent, while enrollment was weighted at 25 percent.

As a result, the top 20 colleges which received the most funding are all public colleges and universities with enrollments in the tens or hundreds of thousands. Arizona State University received the largest relief package of any institution in the nation, netting more than $63 million.

Harvard’s aid package is the third-largest of the Ivy League universities’. Columbia University and Cornell University will receive the largest awards, at $12.8 million each. Yale University will receive nearly $7 million, and Princeton University will net around $2.5 million.

In an April 9 letter to college and university presidents, Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos encouraged administrators to set a maximum amount for individual student aid grants.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

User avatar
blazerb
Posts: 796
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:35 pm

Re: LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by blazerb » Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:23 pm

I don't think receiving this money is nefarious, it's just hypocritical. Unless the government came to BYU and said, "You have to take this money," they are consuming funds that could have gone to other, needier institutions. $54 million is nothing to the church. It's a rounding error when they check the books at the end of the fiscal year. Finding $100 million to support student workers would not be a problem for the church. Why did they need to accept this money?

On the other hand, there are schools where this could have made a real difference. Maybe it wouldn't have gone to them anyway, but this still stinks. And Harvard didn't need to take the money, either.

User avatar
Emower
Posts: 1037
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:35 pm
Location: Carson City

Re: LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by Emower » Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:54 am

You guys are right, hypocrisy is nothing new to the church, and it is totally par for the course, totally expected. What gets me is that the entire justification the church gave for the 100 billion fund, was a rainy day fund. Well now its a rainy day, small businesses are going under, some in part because the small business loan program ran outta cash, and here the church is skulking around stepping on the backs of those businesses to use the funds. They are also doing it with needy families. It used to be that the first place to run was family assistance, then church, then government. Now its government first, family, then the church. Someone I know called it "raiding the coffers of babylon." And again, its expected from a global, profit driven corporation focused on annual revenues. Its just mind blowing to me that people dont see the mormon church becoming exactly what the BOM preaches against.

Reuben
Posts: 1200
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by Reuben » Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:43 am

blazerb wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:23 pm
I don't think receiving this money is nefarious, it's just hypocritical. Unless the government came to BYU and said, "You have to take this money," they are consuming funds that could have gone to other, needier institutions. $54 million is nothing to the church. It's a rounding error when they check the books at the end of the fiscal year. Finding $100 million to support student workers would not be a problem for the church. Why did they need to accept this money?

On the other hand, there are schools where this could have made a real difference. Maybe it wouldn't have gone to them anyway, but this still stinks. And Harvard didn't need to take the money, either.
Do we know that they can refuse?

I would have sent my stimulus money back if I could.
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

Reuben
Posts: 1200
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by Reuben » Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:33 am

Reuben wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:43 am
blazerb wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:23 pm
I don't think receiving this money is nefarious, it's just hypocritical. Unless the government came to BYU and said, "You have to take this money," they are consuming funds that could have gone to other, needier institutions. $54 million is nothing to the church. It's a rounding error when they check the books at the end of the fiscal year. Finding $100 million to support student workers would not be a problem for the church. Why did they need to accept this money?

On the other hand, there are schools where this could have made a real difference. Maybe it wouldn't have gone to them anyway, but this still stinks. And Harvard didn't need to take the money, either.
Do we know that they can refuse?

I would have sent my stimulus money back if I could.
Well then. Seems they could send the money back, like Shake Shack did:

https://www.ksl.com/article/46743257/sh ... government
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

User avatar
wtfluff
Posts: 2564
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: Worshiping Gravity / Pulling Taffy

Re: LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by wtfluff » Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:04 am

Reuben wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:33 am
Reuben wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:43 am
Do we know that they can refuse?

I would have sent my stimulus money back if I could.
Well then. Seems they could send the money back, like Shake Shack did:

https://www.ksl.com/article/46743257/sh ... government
Harvard, and some other "Ivy League" schools have "refused" government assistance.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/politics ... index.html
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

We are secrets to each other

User avatar
blazerb
Posts: 796
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:35 pm

Re: LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by blazerb » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:03 pm

Reuben wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:43 am
blazerb wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:23 pm
I don't think receiving this money is nefarious, it's just hypocritical. Unless the government came to BYU and said, "You have to take this money," they are consuming funds that could have gone to other, needier institutions. $54 million is nothing to the church. It's a rounding error when they check the books at the end of the fiscal year. Finding $100 million to support student workers would not be a problem for the church. Why did they need to accept this money?

On the other hand, there are schools where this could have made a real difference. Maybe it wouldn't have gone to them anyway, but this still stinks. And Harvard didn't need to take the money, either.
Do we know that they can refuse?

I would have sent my stimulus money back if I could.
You can give the money back. Here's where they tell you how.
https://fiscal.treasury.gov/public/gift ... nment.html

I am not saying that is what anyone should do, but it is definitely possible.

Someone already noted that Harvard turned down the money. There is a choice in this case.

User avatar
Just This Guy
Posts: 1084
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:30 pm
Location: Almost Heaven

Re: LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by Just This Guy » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:50 am

Someone started a petition to the White House to review this.

On one hand, I support more government investigation the church. However... man... this needs an editor. Not sure if it does more harm than good to have something worded so poorly.

So feel free to check it out and sign if you feel like it.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... h-received
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

User avatar
Exiled
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:09 am

Re: LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by Exiled » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:18 am

Emower wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:54 am
You guys are right, hypocrisy is nothing new to the church, and it is totally par for the course, totally expected. What gets me is that the entire justification the church gave for the 100 billion fund, was a rainy day fund. Well now its a rainy day, small businesses are going under, some in part because the small business loan program ran outta cash, and here the church is skulking around stepping on the backs of those businesses to use the funds. They are also doing it with needy families. It used to be that the first place to run was family assistance, then church, then government. Now its government first, family, then the church. Someone I know called it "raiding the coffers of babylon." And again, its expected from a global, profit driven corporation focused on annual revenues. Its just mind blowing to me that people dont see the mormon church becoming exactly what the BOM preaches against.
The problem with spending a rainy day fund is that once it is spent, it is gone. There might be a more pressing need in the future and today's supposed emergency may not be viewed as such when the real rain starts to fall. So, it's smart for the church to continue to hoard and seek to have government give it money. This way, the church will end up in a better financial position than when the supposed crisis started, the goal of any good miserly church corporation.

User avatar
AllieOop
Posts: 515
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:39 am
Location: Where the sand meets the Sea...

Re: LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by AllieOop » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:20 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:26 am
This isn’t as nefarious as it looks. The church didn’t exactly say “Hey let’s apply so we can receive money and not spend our own.”

Even Harvard received money.
I thought Harvard ended up turning it down?

I'll search for more info....

ETA:
Found this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/h ... virus.html

*************************
"There came a time when the desire to know the truth about the church became stronger than the desire to know the church was true."

hmb
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:43 am

Re: LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by hmb » Fri May 01, 2020 5:14 am

Personally, as an individual, I wouldn't return the money. If I didn't need it, I would find someone who is making masks, or gowns, or feeding the poor and give it there. The government will likely waste it down the line. Somehow $1000 turns into a few hundred. Giving it directly to one individual, with a cause, would have a better payoff.

Any church organization as wealthy as the LDS Inc, should not take the funds. Maybe an angel threatened death if they refused.

User avatar
Just This Guy
Posts: 1084
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:30 pm
Location: Almost Heaven

Re: LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by Just This Guy » Fri May 01, 2020 7:10 am

Senitor proposes a bill that will require universities with large endowments to match all federal 10x funding with money from their own endowments.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hawley ... avirus-aid

In theory, I agree with the idea, but would this actually hit BYU like it would Harvard? Does BYU actually have it's own endowment, or is it all so buried in LDSinc accounting games that they can't hold them to the same standard?
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

User avatar
wtfluff
Posts: 2564
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: Worshiping Gravity / Pulling Taffy

Re: LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by wtfluff » Wed May 20, 2020 9:53 pm

Which one of you NoMmies guilted LD$-Inc. into rejecting the CARES act offer??? :mrgreen:


https://www.ksl.com/article/46755474/by ... -cares-act
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

We are secrets to each other

User avatar
2bizE
Posts: 1702
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:33 pm

Re: LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by 2bizE » Thu May 21, 2020 8:03 am

Wait. The church gave back $32 million. What about the other approx $20 Million?
~2bizE

User avatar
Just This Guy
Posts: 1084
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:30 pm
Location: Almost Heaven

Re: LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by Just This Guy » Thu May 21, 2020 12:02 pm

Well, LDS Inc held on to it for about 30 days. How much did they make off of interest with this? Given that the stock market had pretty well bottomed out around the time they got the money and it has been rebounding fairly well, how much can they make off of short term investments with this?

Next, what about the $20 going to other schools?

Finally, what about the students? Part of the conditions of the US government giving this to the schools was that at least 50% is to be paid to students. So if LDSInc isn't taking the money, then the students that would have been paid from it now get nothing?
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

User avatar
jfro18
Posts: 1378
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: LDS Inc. Recieved Government Assistance

Post by jfro18 » Thu May 21, 2020 1:04 pm

Just This Guy wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:02 pm
Well, LDS Inc held on to it for about 30 days. How much did they make off of interest with this? Given that the stock market had pretty well bottomed out around the time they got the money and it has been rebounding fairly well, how much can they make off of short term investments with this?

Next, what about the $20 going to other schools?

Finally, what about the students? Part of the conditions of the US government giving this to the schools was that at least 50% is to be paid to students. So if LDSInc isn't taking the money, then the students that would have been paid from it now get nothing?
Are we sure they applied for it? I had read that you had to actually apply for the money even though it was earmarked for schools... if so that's certainly not the impression that the church is giving off.

I am also interested to see if they really are keeping $20M hoping that by giving the BYU money back they can keep the rest quietly.

They never seem to be able to do anything like this the right way from the start... they do it reluctantly in stages after the true prophet of the church, social pressure, forces their hand.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests