Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
User avatar
Palerider
Posts: 1818
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:44 am

Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by Palerider » Tue May 12, 2020 10:26 am

This is such a joke. A day late and a dollar short as they say.

I remember ten years ago when they redecorated our stake building. The 1st Pres. and Joseph Smith took preeminence everywhere. There were some prints of Christ but in the High Council room in particular, the Savior was relegated to a meager spot that was covered when the doors were opened. Again, Joseph and the 1st Pres. took the prime spots with Joseph elevated higher than any other.

This change should have been done a hundred years ago. I guess the wheels of "revelation" turn exceedingly slowly. Actually they are disgustingly slow.

https://www.ldsliving.com/First-Preside ... es/s/92831
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

lostinmiddlemormonism
Posts: 341
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by lostinmiddlemormonism » Tue May 12, 2020 12:26 pm

...yes, this right after Nelson's amazing Joseph Smith orgasm in April.

Mackman
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:03 am
Location: Mjchigan

Re: Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by Mackman » Tue May 12, 2020 1:18 pm

It's all BullShit !!! They can't ditch Joseph Smith and the current 1st presidency they would endanger their Cult status !!!!!! They are bunch of liars they just want everyone to think they believe in Christ in reality they believe in the gospel of Joseph Smith !!!

User avatar
alas
Posts: 1517
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:10 pm

Re: Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by alas » Tue May 12, 2020 1:23 pm

When “art” is so over done as to become cliche it loses all meaning. I have seen their selection of 22 paintings so many times that they are just meaningless. Boring boring boring. Might as well be a white wall or patterned wall paper. The people who made this decision need to write “trite” on the chalk board 10,000 times, until they get it. Kinda like my reaction to seeing the Mona Lisa in person at the Louvre in Paris. Eh. But some of the other paintings I have never seen 2,000 copies of, WOW. I bought a print on canvas of George de la Tour’s painting of Saint Joseph charpentier. It has Joseph doing some carpentry while Jesus holds a candle. And it glowed. So beautiful. Probably the most beautiful thing I saw in Paris. Some of the other paintings I loved were so obscure I couldn’t even buy a post card of them. But we bought enough postcards to make playing the board game Masterpiece more interesting. There is SO much beautiful artwork to choose from, why not appreciate the variety, the beauty of something not so trite and over used as to be worthless?

Besides, all of their selected paintings have the same problem. Jesus looks like a Norwegian, or Swede, not a middle Eastern Jew. It is actually racist to always portray him that way. He was Not white, but probably brown. If you look at the painting of the sermon on the mount, the other men look like they could be from the Middle East, but Jesus once again is probably from Sweden. The artist took the effort to portray most of the people as they should look, then did the racist thing on Jesus. And that one with him holding a black child? A blue eyed Jesus? please. Let’s be historically accurate enough to give him brown eyes, even if we insist on Caucasian features and skin tone. Jesus more likely looked like the black child than a Norwegian, after all, Egypt wasn’t as far away as Norway is.

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 3078
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by moksha » Tue May 12, 2020 2:55 pm

I applaud the effort to make the LDS Church more Christian. All that peculiarity brought on by secrecy over illegal practices (no, I am not including nude clogging in the Temple) and general overboard reverence of things made up did not enhance the Church.

Looking at depictions of a Norwegian Jesus is bound to have a positive effect (at least according to those folks into Neuro-linguistic programming). If we are what we iconize, then this will be much better than the portraits of the past.

Even the name change separates us from those "Mormons" who would hate on homosexuals and polygamize at the drop of a hat.

What is next that can be improved? Deemphasize business attire as being holy. I mean, Jesus wore a toga (jeans and T-shirt), while Trump representing Satan's minions wears a business suit. This one might be difficult, but a prophet could pull it off.

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2020/05 ... s-leaders/
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

User avatar
MoPag
Posts: 2306
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:05 pm

Re: Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by MoPag » Tue May 12, 2020 8:20 pm

Ummm... is Rusty gonna get any revelation on the early 90's floral pattern couches? I mean I guess if we wait long enough it will become vintage and trendy?
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 4288
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by Hagoth » Wed May 13, 2020 6:15 am

"This effort supports President Russell M. Nelson’s call over the past 18 months to emphasize that “Jesus Christ is at the center of His Church.”

If you keep saying it over and over then I guess it becomes true. Like saying the virus will just go away in April.

When I went to the Draper Temple open house it was almost embarrassing how hard they were trying to advertise their Christianity. They hung pictures of Jesus everywhere (that are not there today). I guess they only had a couple of approved paintings, because you kept seeing the same ones over and over, so it kinda came across as propagandistic.

You would see this painting in one room, and then turn the corner and see it again in the next room:
Image
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
Just This Guy
Posts: 1084
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:30 pm
Location: Almost Heaven

Re: Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by Just This Guy » Wed May 13, 2020 6:18 am

Hey, those royalty payments are not going to make themselves...
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

User avatar
RubinHighlander
Posts: 1629
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:20 am
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain

Re: Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by RubinHighlander » Wed May 13, 2020 7:57 am

Graven Images

But don't bother making the Jesus pics historically/biologically accurate, be sure to keep them all white European oriented.

If the second coming is just around the corner, does that mean that Jebus loved the dinosaurs more than us accountable hominids? I mean, they will have lived much longer on the planet than us, before most of them pissed him off and the asteroid was allowed to wipe them out. Not too mention how long trilobites got to swim around and evolve all those millions of years.

Image
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 4288
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by Hagoth » Wed May 13, 2020 8:25 am

A TBM friend of mine became a devoted fan of the FARMS/FAIR apologetics and he confessed to me that his biggest hurdle was accepting that the only way to make that work was to accept that the Nephites were middle-easterners who mixed in with Mesoamericans, which means that there was no possible way that the could have been white people. I suppose a non-Caucasian Jesus may be an even bigger gap to jump.

I'd love to see more Jesus along these lines:

Image
Image
Image
Image
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
2bizE
Posts: 1702
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:33 pm

Re: Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by 2bizE » Wed May 13, 2020 9:21 am

I think this is a good thing. Anything to knock Joseph down below Christ is good. It mentioned in a SLTrib article that the foyers are also to be free of cork boards, missionary plaques, and I assume easels announcing Relief Society super Saturday’s. Only Christ can be in the central foyers. Sure, it will be the pleasant looking white Jesus we are accustomed to, but Jesus nonetheless. Many of us won’t see the changes anyway...
~2bizE

User avatar
Palerider
Posts: 1818
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:44 am

Re: Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by Palerider » Wed May 13, 2020 9:26 am

From a purely Christian point of view it's hard to tell what the Savior would have looked like. He said, "If ye have seen me, ye have seen the Father."

I have no idea what ethnicity, if any, might be attached to the Father. He could just as easily be Middle Eastern as Caucasian.

But because of the bias of old white guys in the 1800-1900 hundreds, they assume because the Caucasian race is "advanced" beyond all others, then obviously, God must look like us. And that bias continues among church leadership today. They feel comfortable thinking that Christ looks like them. Except for the beard and somewhat longer hair.

I imagine it to be extremely difficult to attempt to depict Christ. Sometimes I wonder if we even should make that attempt. I'd it creating an "image" in the Biblical sense?

Maybe the answer lies in whether we worship the image itself?
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

User avatar
MoPag
Posts: 2306
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:05 pm

Re: Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by MoPag » Wed May 13, 2020 11:02 am

Dear Rusty,

You can put Jesus' name and face all over your church. Hell, get a Jesus tattoo-on your forehead. But if you and your buddies are going to continue to harm and marginalize women, people of color, members of the LGBT+ community, single people, blended families, (I could go on and on) You are missing the point. You have no idea what Jesus taught, what he stood for and what he died for. You are using his name and his image in vain. You sit your wrinkly, white a$$ on literally billions of dollars, hold up a picture of white Jesus and ask starving families to give you more money. I hope you get to meet Jesus one day and I hope he goes "money changer" on your a$$.

Love,
A f*cking Pagan who knows Jesus better than you.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

User avatar
Red Ryder
Posts: 2683
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by Red Ryder » Wed May 13, 2020 12:04 pm

Hmmm....

Too bad there wasn’t a universal symbol of Christianity that Mormons could just follow everyone else and latch onto.

This could do:

Image
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

Reuben
Posts: 1200
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by Reuben » Wed May 13, 2020 6:35 pm

Palerider wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:26 am
I imagine it to be extremely difficult to attempt to depict Christ. Sometimes I wonder if we even should make that attempt. I'd it creating an "image" in the Biblical sense?

Maybe the answer lies in whether we worship the image itself?
I think it's very easy to imagine depicting him, but very hard to carry out. Jesus always looks like the people you impoverish and oppress. He looks like the people who scare and disgust you. He looks like the Other.
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

Reuben
Posts: 1200
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by Reuben » Wed May 13, 2020 6:38 pm

RubinHighlander wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:57 am
If the second coming is just around the corner, does that mean that Jebus loved the dinosaurs more than us accountable hominids? I mean, they will have lived much longer on the planet than us, before most of them pissed him off and the asteroid was allowed to wipe them out. Not too mention how long trilobites got to swim around and evolve all those millions of years.

Image
This is literally my favorite Jesus picture. I love the murderous look in the dinosaur's eye.
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 4288
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by Hagoth » Wed May 13, 2020 6:41 pm

Mopag and Reuben:
Image
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
StarbucksMom
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:14 am

Re: Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by StarbucksMom » Wed May 13, 2020 7:59 pm

MoPag wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 11:02 am
Dear Rusty,

You can put Jesus' name and face all over your church. Hell, get a Jesus tattoo-on your forehead. But if you and your buddies are going to continue to harm and marginalize women, people of color, members of the LGBT+ community, single people, blended families, (I could go on and on) You are missing the point. You have no idea what Jesus taught, what he stood for and what he died for. You are using his name and his image in vain. You sit your wrinkly, white a$$ on literally billions of dollars, hold up a picture of white Jesus and ask starving families to give you more money. I hope you get to meet Jesus one day and I hope he goes "money changer" on your a$$.

Love,
A f*cking Pagan who knows Jesus better than you.
Epic. Can someone post this on Russ’ front door?

User avatar
John Hamer
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:23 pm
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Re: Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by John Hamer » Wed May 13, 2020 8:12 pm

In our congregation, we wanted to have images from the Christian tradition, while avoiding the literalistic / Romantic era of Anglo-Saxon Jesus paintings. We opted to reproduce the stained glass windows from Chartres Cathedral (one of the standout examples of Medieval Christian art and architecture) to represent Christ and the Christian tradition.

You can see all our artwork in this video. The Chartres windows are at 8:40.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B90NNxQcAfY

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 4288
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Church wants more Christ-centered artwork in buildings

Post by Hagoth » Fri May 15, 2020 8:08 am

Wow John, I love the way you have designed your space. You have eliminated pretty much everything that puts knots in my stomach when I enter a traditional church and replaced it with things that make it feel inviting. Genius.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Reuben and 14 guests