Changes

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
User avatar
jfro18
Posts: 1433
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Changes

Post by jfro18 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:07 pm

slavereeno wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:12 pm
UPDATE:

DS 1,2 and DIL (all RMs) are mentally out now, after reading the CES Letter. DS 3 is mentally out and currently not planning on a mission. DD 1&2 don't know what to think but want to stay involved because all their friends are Mormon. DW is most likely mentally out as well.
Wow...when things move fast... they move fast.

Hopefully everyone is doing OK through the transition - I know from reading and listening to others that the impact can range from being OK to being a complete mess.

Take care over there!

User avatar
græy
Posts: 897
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:52 pm
Location: Central TX

Re: Changes

Post by græy » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:32 pm

slavereeno wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:12 pm
UPDATE:

DS 1,2 and DIL (all RMs) are mentally out now, after reading the CES Letter. DS 3 is mentally out and currently not planning on a mission. DD 1&2 don't know what to think but want to stay involved because all their friends are Mormon. DW is most likely mentally out as well.
That is (hopefully) amazing news! As jfro18 says, the change is rough, even when you have family support. Please stay close to each other. Reinforce those family bonds now more than ever!
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 4469
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Changes

Post by Hagoth » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:39 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:17 am
Letter to my wife was written by a guy on Reddit who came up with a list of reasons to explain to his wife why his faith was challenged and eventually lost...

...He recently popped back up on Reddit giving an update that they were divorcing and that his wife to this day has never read the letter.
Let's all remember to tune in when they hand out the bitter irony awards.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
slavereeno
Posts: 1219
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:30 am
Location: QC, AZ

Re: Changes

Post by slavereeno » Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:45 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:47 pm
Wow. Seems things are changing fast around your family. Hope the pandemic break from church will push everyone to find new things to do on sundays.
jfro18 wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:07 pm
Wow...when things move fast... they move fast.

Hopefully everyone is doing OK through the transition - I know from reading and listening to others that the impact can range from being OK to being a complete mess.

Take care over there!
græy wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:32 pm
That is (hopefully) amazing news! As jfro18 says, the change is rough, even when you have family support. Please stay close to each other. Reinforce those family bonds now more than ever!
Thanks. It really has been a whirlwind couple of weeks. There seems to be a running theme in these comments. Sounds like I need to stay close to family and connect with them. There certainly is a lot of head spinning going on over here right now. It is a lot to process and there is plenty of fear about what family and friends are going to think.

User avatar
slavereeno
Posts: 1219
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:30 am
Location: QC, AZ

Re: Changes

Post by slavereeno » Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:46 am

Oh and I guess there is a special place in Hell for me because I have "corrupted" my family.

User avatar
jfro18
Posts: 1433
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Changes

Post by jfro18 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:53 am

One thing I wish I had early on in the process was a place like this where I could post that wasn't the reddit anger.

Maybe that would be helpful if any of your family members are feeling overwhelmed, crushed, or angry... maybe it wouldn't be here if that's awkward, but I know there are other groups that are more comforting for those going through the transition.

Obviously you'd know best - I just know when I first found everything out I didn't have a good outlet to vent to and instead it led to a lot of extra stress with my wife, who was retrenching as quickly as I was doing whatever the opposite of retrenching is. :lol:

User avatar
wtfluff
Posts: 2643
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: Worshiping Gravity / Pulling Taffy

Re: Changes

Post by wtfluff » Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:55 am

slavereeno wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:46 am
Oh and I guess there is a special place in Hell for me because I have "corrupted" my family.
OK, let's be rational here: Hell does not exist.

You saved your family from a greedy corporation masquerading as a "church" which literally does nothing but teach them to ignore reality, and takes their money and time from them, giving absolutely nothing in return.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

User avatar
Corsair
Posts: 2895
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:58 am
Location: Phoenix

Re: Changes

Post by Corsair » Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:32 am

slavereeno wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:46 am
Oh and I guess there is a special place in Hell for me because I have "corrupted" my family.
There's also a special place in Heaven for helping your family come to a better understanding of reality. The only people condemning you to Hell are those who are adamantly certain of their conclusions.

User avatar
græy
Posts: 897
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:52 pm
Location: Central TX

Re: Changes

Post by græy » Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:17 pm

Corsair wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:32 am
slavereeno wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:46 am
Oh and I guess there is a special place in Hell for me because I have "corrupted" my family.
There's also a special place in Heaven for helping your family come to a better understanding of reality. The only people condemning you to Hell are those who are adamantly certain of their conclusions.
Well said Corsair!
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

User avatar
slavereeno
Posts: 1219
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:30 am
Location: QC, AZ

Re: Changes

Post by slavereeno » Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:40 pm

Corsair wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:32 am
slavereeno wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:46 am
Oh and I guess there is a special place in Hell for me because I have "corrupted" my family.
There's also a special place in Heaven for helping your family come to a better understanding of reality. The only people condemning you to Hell are those who are adamantly certain of their conclusions.
Yes this, my statement reflects the aspersions leveled at me from father and father in law. It may be an awkward fathers day. :?

User avatar
Corsair
Posts: 2895
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:58 am
Location: Phoenix

Re: Changes

Post by Corsair » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:38 pm

slavereeno wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:40 pm
Yes this, my statement reflects the aspersions leveled at me from father and father in law. It may be an awkward fathers day. :?
Some philosopher that I truly do not remember said that the problem with metaphysics is that there is no laboratory for testing those statements. It's like when a family friend warned me about my Lesbian daughter marrying her girlfriend. "What are the consequences? She can still come to my house any time she wants to visit." He appeared to be straining for the bad consequences and only could say that she won't be in the Celestial Kingdom. "Then, I'll go visit her frequently."

This is not Brigham Young's Utah where leaving the faith was a risk to your life. The ironic problem is that believing family members will do all of the passive aggressive punishments in response to your clear embrace of the 12th Article of Faith. It's additionally ironic that you have to be the Christlike person in this relationship as you negotiate how you will (or won't) continue to act around them.

User avatar
Random
Posts: 1182
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:44 pm

Re: Changes

Post by Random » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:51 pm

slavereeno wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:12 pm
UPDATE:

DS 1,2 and DIL (all RMs) are mentally out now, after reading the CES Letter. DS 3 is mentally out and currently not planning on a mission. DD 1&2 don't know what to think but want to stay involved because all their friends are Mormon. DW is most likely mentally out as well.
Wow! That was fast!
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK

User avatar
slavereeno
Posts: 1219
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:30 am
Location: QC, AZ

Re: Changes

Post by slavereeno » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:42 am

Random wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:51 pm
Wow! That was fast!
Yep, stuff has been changing around here crazy fast.

User avatar
slavereeno
Posts: 1219
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:30 am
Location: QC, AZ

Re: Changes

Post by slavereeno » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:44 am

Corsair wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:38 pm
Some philosopher that I truly do not remember said that the problem with metaphysics is that there is no laboratory for testing those statements. It's like when a family friend warned me about my Lesbian daughter marrying her girlfriend. "What are the consequences? She can still come to my house any time she wants to visit." He appeared to be straining for the bad consequences and only could say that she won't be in the Celestial Kingdom. "Then, I'll go visit her frequently."

This is not Brigham Young's Utah where leaving the faith was a risk to your life. The ironic problem is that believing family members will do all of the passive aggressive punishments in response to your clear embrace of the 12th Article of Faith. It's additionally ironic that you have to be the Christlike person in this relationship as you negotiate how you will (or won't) continue to act around them.
I haven't plucked up the courage to ask my father, what he thinks will happen to me when I resign from the church. He's hardcore TBM, does he think I am getting chucked into outer darkness as an apostate? or just demoted to TK Smoothie land?

User avatar
Red Ryder
Posts: 2729
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: Changes

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:29 am

TK Smoothie Land is actually an island.

Haven’t you ever seen Malibu Barbie?

You may not have any genitals, but you get to drive a jeep around the island soaking up the sun with an eternal smile and more importantly no garments!

Congrats on the progress.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

User avatar
Corsair
Posts: 2895
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:58 am
Location: Phoenix

Re: Changes

Post by Corsair » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:25 pm

slavereeno wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:44 am
I haven't plucked up the courage to ask my father, what he thinks will happen to me when I resign from the church. He's hardcore TBM, does he think I am getting chucked into outer darkness as an apostate? or just demoted to TK Smoothie land?
On a recent episode of the Sunstone Podcast, Joanna Brooks brought up the TK Smoothie story. Apparently it came about because some wiseguy noticed that perfect "resurrection for all" means that evil people will still retain their naughty bits in the Telestial Kingdom. That means that they might engage in an eternal orgy down there with no additional afterlife to mess up the party.

Joseph Fielding Smith was responding to that logical conclusion to the doctrine of universal resurrection. He did not want any res-erection happening in his doctrinal eternity. So he release this buzzkill idea in Doctrines of Salvation (volume 2, page 287-288; yes, I have a copy of the 1955 edition if anyone wants to see it)

This may be getting a bit away from Salvereeno's obvious familial challenges. The threats of eternity in the LDS church are all drawn from cherry-picked readings of prophets, seers, and revelators who were least likely to exercise any epistemic humility in defense of Joseph Smith's Restoration. As far as I can tell, simply responding to threats with Christlike love works best. It's not that the words from a disappointed and believing family member can't hurt you. Those things hurt very badly. Retaliatory rhetoric won't help the situation. Seeing their words as just "words" masking their own religious fears is a way to proceed to a better relationship, no matter how long it might take to reconcile.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests