Bruce Porter Stuff Again

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slavereeno
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Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by slavereeno » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:57 am

This is so exhausting...

Bruce Porter claims that the temple veil ceremony or something remarkably close to it can be found inscribed onto pillars of ancient Egyptian temples etc. How could JS have known about this... ergo the church is true. Get back to church you heathen.

Does anybody know of a resource for research on this?

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jfro18
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Re: Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by jfro18 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:27 am

Do you have a link to Bruce Porter's stuff?

I mean the search for parallels is exhausting, and one that no objective scholar would agree to. There is research out there but I'm honestly not sure what would handle that since it's typically baseless.

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slavereeno
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Re: Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by slavereeno » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:28 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:27 am
Do you have a link to Bruce Porter's stuff?

I mean the search for parallels is exhausting, and one that no objective scholar would agree to. There is research out there but I'm honestly not sure what would handle that since it's typically baseless.
I am having a hard time finding a transcript but here is a link to his youtube version of the same devotional, I fast forwarded to the relevant part where he presents four vignettes carved in stone on what he is calling the "holy of holies" in an Egyptian temple.

https://youtu.be/RJynmYYeo6M?list=PLQjD ... UVv&t=2070

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Red Ryder
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Re: Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:31 pm

Just because a compass and square is inscribed in a veil drawing on a stone pillar doesn’t mean the Egyptians were pantomiming slitting their own throats and disembowelling themselves in the name of Jesus.

Now if an inscription of cafeteria tapioca pudding and 3 dudes waiting on a flowery couch for their Egyptian Goddess’ to get dressed into their street clothes exists then we all can start to worry. :x
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Red Ryder
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Re: Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:34 pm

This triggered a vague memory of attending one of those “Know your religion” series of firesides where some guy claimed a group of anthropologist dug up a mummy and when they opened it their were cloth remnants with a compass and square. All the LDS people on site knew the meaning unlike the other non Mormons.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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wtfluff
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Re: Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by wtfluff » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:40 pm

Egyptian Freemasons? Ha! (Like the Freemasons invented the compass and the square.)

Call me when they find some stringy Egyptian baker's hats, veils, and some fake green silk "aprons."
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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2bizE
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Re: Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by 2bizE » Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:16 pm

Was Bruce Porter the guy that beat his wife in Washington DC Or New York a few years ago?? Or was that another porter?
~2bizE

Thoughtful
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Re: Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by Thoughtful » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:16 am

2bizE wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:16 pm
Was Bruce Porter the guy that beat his wife in Washington DC Or New York a few years ago?? Or was that another porter?
Not the same guy.

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moksha
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Re: Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by moksha » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:47 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:34 pm
“Know your religion” series of firesides where some guy claimed a group of anthropologists dug up a mummy and when they opened it there were cloth remnants with a compass and square.
Seems like there should be some reward when you can foist preposterous stories upon the believing Saints, such as being conferred the title 33rd Degree Apologist and getting a special Cleon Skousen decoder ring.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Not Buying It
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Re: Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by Not Buying It » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:00 am

moksha wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:47 am
Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:34 pm
“Know your religion” series of firesides where some guy claimed a group of anthropologists dug up a mummy and when they opened it there were cloth remnants with a compass and square.
Seems like there should be some reward when you can foist preposterous stories upon the believing Saints, such as being conferred the title 33rd Degree Apologist and getting a special Cleon Skousen decoder ring.
I'd forgotten all about "Know Your Religion" - my parents used to go, I went to one or two. Seems like often it was some person who was employed by the Church in some capacity pushing their pet gospel theories. Seems like the times I went I learned about things that weren't really part of my religion. The Brethren probably ended it out of jealousy, they don't like people listening to anyone except them.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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deacon blues
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Re: Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by deacon blues » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:17 am

:lol:
wtfluff wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:40 pm
Egyptian Freemasons? Ha! (Like the Freemasons invented the compass and the square.)

Call me when they find some stringy Egyptian baker's hats, veils, and some fake green silk "aprons."
Yeah, this. :P
God is Love. God is Truth

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Palerider
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Re: Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by Palerider » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:24 am

These guys are all just modern day gnostics that are the few and very special who know all the extra super-dooper secrets to the real salvation. Oh, to be in that rarified air.

I'd be very curious to know what their contemporary non-lds colleagues would think of their interpretations.

I'm so glad we now have the "plain and simple" truths restored to earth as opposed to all that fancy stuff the Catholics believe in.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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slavereeno
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Re: Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by slavereeno » Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:00 am

This was my response:
The similarities between the veil ceremony and the five points of the fellowship from the Masonic rites bear a much, much closer resemblance to each other than the veil ceremony does to Egyptian traditions. Why doesn't this nullify the connection that Porter is attempting to establish? And no, the Masonic rites do not date back to Solomon's Temple, nor did the endowment happen in Solomon's Temple. Either way, it seems evident to me that Joseph Smith was not privy to anything unknown to him.

As I recall, (it has been a year,) Porter's "translations" are his paraphrases of the language, and his paraphrasing is worded in very Mormon language. So I can see why he makes the connection in his mind. Nearly every religion has aspects and symbols relating to the afterlife, the gateway (veil) to that afterlife, meeting god, preparation, apotheosis, etc. etc. Its far more likely, to me, that these religious elements coincide due to the commonality of their symbols and concepts, rather than that they are related by supernatural means. This is especially true for elements from history that have influenced the majority of the worlds civilizations due to their antiquity such as Egypt. So, at least to my mind, this is very far from a bullseye for Joseph Smith. How else do we account for the elements of Protestantism, Paganism and Buddhism in Mormon worship? Also, why do we also find elements from Egyptian worship in Catholicism, Buddhism, Lutheranism, Jehovah's witnesses, the Moonies, Zoroastrianism, Islam, etc? Does that now mean that these groups also hit a bullseye?
I also found this, Fuxi an ancient Chinese folk hero. Interesting that Fuxi has a compass and square in his hands....
Image

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Red Ryder
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Re: Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:48 am

slavereeno wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:00 am
I also found this, Fuxi an ancient Chinese folk hero. Interesting that Fuxi has a compass and square in his hands....
Image
Are you sure those aren't nunchucks?
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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græy
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Re: Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by græy » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:55 pm

Uggh. I hate stuff like this. Find arbitrary and unsubstantiated parallels in ancient cultures and then spread rumors about how it proves the church is so true. :roll:

Is this Bruce D Porter, the general authority who passed away a few years ago?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallelomania

Let me try....

In this footage, obtained from extra-terrestrial beings. We clearly see a baptism, followed by an anointing, and finally the placement of priesthood robes and hat before this servant of God is allowed to attend to his priesthood duties.

https://youtu.be/-f2RHs2iSms?t=20

Obviously, Ronan the Accuser was a servant and priest of the most high God. His culture faithfully (as faithfully as possible given that they are also fallible mortals) preserved the ordinances of exaltation. This is a testament to the truth of the gospel as it has been given to us on this planet.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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Hagoth
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Re: Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by Hagoth » Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:31 pm

My BYU professor neighbor has told me about the temple endowment carved in the temple at Karnak. I haven't seen it but I assumed it shows a lot of arm positions that look like stuff in the endowment ceremony because Joseph was lifting stuff from Egyptian imagery to make make his version of masonry seem ancient.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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slavereeno
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Re: Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by slavereeno » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:57 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:48 am
Are you sure those aren't nunchucks?
Or Scissors.

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slavereeno
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Re: Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by slavereeno » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:58 pm

græy wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:55 pm
Obviously, Ronan the Accuser was a servant and priest of the most high God. His culture faithfully (as faithfully as possible given that they are also fallible mortals) preserved the ordinances of exaltation. This is a testament to the truth of the gospel as it has been given to us on this planet.
HaHa, exactly.

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slavereeno
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Re: Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by slavereeno » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:59 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:31 pm
My BYU professor neighbor has told me about the temple endowment carved in the temple at Karnak. I haven't seen it but I assumed it shows a lot of arm positions that look like stuff in the endowment ceremony because Joseph was lifting stuff from Egyptian imagery to make make his version of masonry seem ancient.
Oh, I guess that probably factored into it as well.

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jfro18
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Re: Bruce Porter Stuff Again

Post by jfro18 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:30 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:31 pm
My BYU professor neighbor has told me about the temple endowment carved in the temple at Karnak. I haven't seen it but I assumed it shows a lot of arm positions that look like stuff in the endowment ceremony because Joseph was lifting stuff from Egyptian imagery to make make his version of masonry seem ancient.
This is how almost all of Mormonism goes.

It's true because it has parallels to ancient practices, and it has ancient parallels because it's true.

Nevermind that Joseph Smith lifted those ideas and that we can point to what exactly Joseph was looking at to evolve these ideas - there's a vague parallel to make it all work.

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