Bendar Feels Attacked

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græy
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Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by græy » Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:38 pm

I'm sure many of you have seen this already but I am somewhat appalled...

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... us-freedom

Quotes from the man himself:
Gathering, in short, is at the core of faith and religion. Indeed, if the faithful are not gathering, sooner or later they will begin to scatter.
... showing a little fear there David?
... never again can we allow government officials to treat the exercise of religion as simply nonessential. Never again must the fundamental right to worship God be trivialized below the ability to buy gasoline.
So, he's hurt because gas stations stayed open while church services were paused? Does he not see the difference? Did he not read the news articles of what happened where churches continued to meet? Does really, truly believe that Mormon gatherings would have been different?

Part of me wants TBMs to return to church just so this narcissistic *** can see how wrong he is!
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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nibbler
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Re: Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by nibbler » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:01 pm

Behold thy brother hath said, What shall we do?—for we are cast out of our synagogues, that we cannot worship our God.

Behold I say unto you, do ye suppose that ye cannot worship God save it be in your synagogues only?
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

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Hagoth
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Re: Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by Hagoth » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:19 pm

In North America, Elder Bednar pointed out, jurisdictions deemed services related to alcohol, animals and marijuana as essential, while the services of religious organizations were classified as nonessential, even when those activities could be safely conducted.
That sounds like correct priorities to me!

It sounds like someone else who is just dying to have rallies so he can bask in the attention of thousands of admirers. It's a narcissist thing.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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deacon blues
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Re: Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by deacon blues » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:44 pm

nibbler wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:01 pm
Behold thy brother hath said, What shall we do?—for we are cast out of our synagogues, that we cannot worship our God.

Behold I say unto you, do ye suppose that ye cannot worship God save it be in your synagogues only?
Right On! :D :lol:

I could be wrong but I think when we get to the other side God will tell them they really didn't need those temples. Heck, the Israelites used animal sacrifice like scapegoats, why could LDS use virtual ordinances?
God is Love. God is Truth

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wtfluff
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Re: Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by wtfluff » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:01 pm

Seeing a dip in tithing revenue's eh Bednar?

Kinda hard when reality shows that you, and your religion truly are irrelevant eh?



Hey COB lurkers: Tell Bednar that some fluffy nobody on the internet says he's an IDIOT.

(Sorry... Too harsh? The entire article really does make him sound like a whiny child.)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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græy
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Re: Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by græy » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:17 pm

Having now watched Bednars actual talk, my interpretation has softened just a bit.

I do think he paints a false picture of a government willing to rip away religious freedom as soon as we aren't paying attention. He builds that narrative by citing the ban on group gatherings (which happened to include religious services) and how those prohibitions were the result of careless government orders which did not take into account religion's place of prime importance in our lives. I firmly disagree there. There was no sinister plot to restrict religious freedom by limiting groups.

However, he then goes on to note how ceremonies like last rights we're denied to many who weren't even sick with COVID19 because of emergency policies in place. While food and health services were deemed essential, even religious services that could be performed safely we're denied - or as Bednar put it - trivialized.

I do understand that to some, ceremonies like last rights could be considered essential. Havimh been TBM, I could not imagine knowing I was going to die and also knowing that my only means of preparing to meet Good worthily were being denied.

I think Bednars ultimate message is that those things are more than meaningful, they are spiritually necessary to some. Denying them could even be cruel. We should be careful in the future to not let things like that get swept into the unimportant pile without so much as a thought.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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alas
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Re: Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by alas » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:31 pm

græy wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:17 pm
Having now watched Bednars actual talk, my interpretation has softened just a bit.

I do think he paints a false picture of a government willing to rip away religious freedom as soon as we aren't paying attention. He builds that narrative by citing the ban on group gatherings (which happened to include religious services) and how those prohibitions were the result of careless government orders which did not take into account religion's place of prime importance in our lives. I firmly disagree there. There was no sinister plot to restrict religious freedom by limiting groups.

However, he then goes on to note how ceremonies like last rights we're denied to many who weren't even sick with COVID19 because of emergency policies in place. While food and health services were deemed essential, even religious services that could be performed safely we're denied - or as Bednar put it - trivialized.

I do understand that to some, ceremonies like last rights could be considered essential. Havimh been TBM, I could not imagine knowing I was going to die and also knowing that my only means of preparing to meet Good worthily were being denied.

I think Bednars ultimate message is that those things are more than meaningful, they are spiritually necessary to some. Denying them could even be cruel. We should be careful in the future to not let things like that get swept into the unimportant pile without so much as a thought.

Yes, the church really needs to look at all the women who do not have a priesthood holding man in the home and realize that something important was being denied to a segment of the church and how denying that was cruel when blessing the sacrament over the phone or a dozen other ways to allow women to have access to the sacrament were so readily available. But the leaders trivialized the sacrament as far as single, widowed, or mixed faith marriages go. They really should practice what they preach.

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Give It Time
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Re: Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by Give It Time » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:46 pm

alas wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:31 pm
græy wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:17 pm
Having now watched Bednars actual talk, my interpretation has softened just a bit.

I do think he paints a false picture of a government willing to rip away religious freedom as soon as we aren't paying attention. He builds that narrative by citing the ban on group gatherings (which happened to include religious services) and how those prohibitions were the result of careless government orders which did not take into account religion's place of prime importance in our lives. I firmly disagree there. There was no sinister plot to restrict religious freedom by limiting groups.

However, he then goes on to note how ceremonies like last rights we're denied to many who weren't even sick with COVID19 because of emergency policies in place. While food and health services were deemed essential, even religious services that could be performed safely we're denied - or as Bednar put it - trivialized.

I do understand that to some, ceremonies like last rights could be considered essential. Havimh been TBM, I could not imagine knowing I was going to die and also knowing that my only means of preparing to meet Good worthily were being denied.

I think Bednars ultimate message is that those things are more than meaningful, they are spiritually necessary to some. Denying them could even be cruel. We should be careful in the future to not let things like that get swept into the unimportant pile without so much as a thought.

Yes, the church really needs to look at all the women who do not have a priesthood holding man in the home and realize that something important was being denied to a segment of the church and how denying that was cruel when blessing the sacrament over the phone or a dozen other ways to allow women to have access to the sacrament were so readily available. But the leaders trivialized the sacrament as far as single, widowed, or mixed faith marriages go. They really should practice what they preach.
This really is a mic drop.

Even though, when I went inactive and I told my bishop no contact until I reach out to you, I got five(!) contacts just prior to lock down inquiring if I was okay and if they could do anything to please let them know and to please, PLEASE, PLEASE tell them how I was doing. I made it patently clear I was fine. Then I saw what went down with the Sacrament. Had I been the nervous wreck they apparently imagined I was and returned to the fold just before the lockdown, I would have been completely ripped off in something that could have offered me so much healing and comfort at a time when I was vulnerable. Returning to church and being denied the Sacrament would have actually been more damaging, I think. So, yes. What Alas says is completely true about trivializing something that can hold spiritual solace for certain people. The church did exactly the same thing. They trivialized the Sacrament and they trivialized the female members.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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2bizE
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Re: Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by 2bizE » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:26 pm

There was a part of Bednar’s speech that was left out, as some heard him mumble under his breath .... “it is better for thousands of old and less healthy people to die, then for a whole nation of people stop going to church and dwindle in unbelief.”
~2bizE

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moksha
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Re: Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by moksha » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:36 pm

2bizE wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:26 pm
There was a part of Bednar’s speech that was left out, as some heard him mumble under his breath .... “it is better for thousands of old and less healthy people to die, then for a whole nation of people stop going to church and dwindle in unbelief.”
One extra line was also left off. "If only we could have held the April Conference as we normally do", Bednar sighed wistfully.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Red Ryder
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Re: Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:01 am

It’s an easy fix Mr. Bednar:

Change the sacrament to wine and members can attend your church for their alcohol!

All ya need is a policy adjustment!

Seems non-church attendance makes Elder Bednar obsolete.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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1smartdodog
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Re: Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by 1smartdodog » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:17 am

Dont much care what Bednar thinks but as a matter of principle i am against the government telling people what is essential and what is not. All businesses are essential to the person running them or working there.

Covid is not going away anytime soon. Lets just be glad it is not more deadly than it is an learn to live with it the best we can, without all the hype.


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Just This Guy
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Re: Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by Just This Guy » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:33 am

2bizE wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:26 pm
There was a part of Bednar’s speech that was left out, as some heard him mumble under his breath .... “it is better for thousands of old and less healthy people to die, then for a whole nation of people stop going to church and dwindle in unbelief.”
..."and when they do die, we get a nice chunk of tithing off their estates."
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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wtfluff
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Re: Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by wtfluff » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:40 am

Now that I think about it... This is probably just Bednar's evil plan to get all the older Q15 members above him in the hierarchy to go to more meetings so all the old coots will get COVID and die, and then Bednar get's his CEO of LD$-Inc. dream-job sooner.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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jfro18
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Re: Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by jfro18 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:13 am

My problem with this talk is that he creates a strawman argument from the start.

He doesn't mention that the governments stopped ALL group gatherings. I'm mad that my concerts this spring were canceled, people here are upset that festivals, summer food events, etc were all canceled.

He tries to keep framing it as if just religions were stopped when it was EVERYTHING that requires groups to be together. That's just a dishonest framing.

Second, he keeps whining about government having too much power and say. This comes from a church that tells you what you can and cannot wear, what you can and cannot drink, how you spend your money, what sources of information you are to read from, etc.

I hate this church so much. Every Sunday I have to watch two dudes come in and give my wife sacrament, and then I have to see how meaningful it is to her...

And then I get told I'm going to the "dark side" because I was happy the Supreme Court protected the rights of LGBT people in the workplace. She made the comment with sarcasm, but she meant overall that I'm (as she put it when I repeated dark side back to her as a question) "turning into more of a Democrat."

Talks like this only help her get more fundamentalist and me more angry about it.

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nibbler
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Re: Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by nibbler » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:11 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:13 am
Second, he keeps whining about government having too much power and say. This comes from a church that tells you what you can and cannot wear, what you can and cannot drink, how you spend your money, what sources of information you are to read from, etc.
He's jealous. ;)
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

Reuben
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Re: Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by Reuben » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:00 pm

I thought the church canceled services before being forced to. You wouldn't get that from his talk.

He does have a point that some aspects of lifting lockdown have been haphazard, but IMO he's just doing the typical Mormon thing and building dungeons in the clouds - imagining that they really are out to get you instead of making mistakes or trying to choose the least bad solution to a hard problem.

It must be hard living as if Satan is waiting to jump out from behind every bush.
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

Blashyrkh
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Re: Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by Blashyrkh » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:30 pm

Holy shit! Parden the language. But please, if you have an Instagram account please go look at the latest post on Bednars account. Its him at his desk and his wife is, and I kid you not, wearing a mask. Tell me, would any of require your spouse to wear a mask in your presence? And to make it even worse the annointed one is not wearing one. WTF is this? I am not sure I can take much more of this before I kick this entire organization to the curb.

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nibbler
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Re: Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by nibbler » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:10 pm

You don't even have to go to Instagram, it's one of the images in the article of the original post.

Image

Image
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

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Give It Time
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Re: Bendar Feels Attacked

Post by Give It Time » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:28 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:40 am
Now that I think about it... This is probably just Bednar's evil plan to get all the older Q15 members above him in the hierarchy to go to more meetings so all the old coots will get COVID and die, and then Bednar get's his CEO of LD$-Inc. dream-job sooner.
Considering this is directly contradictory to what the top leadership is doing, I tend to agree with you. I also think this is a distraction from the Holland story. Holland's been in the hospital for more than a week and they don't know what he has? C'mon. He's in the hospital. Things aren't looking good, hence the delayed announcement. I'm betting they actually received a positive on the Covid test, they're just breaking it to the members slowly. Then, in a week or two, we'll learned he passed. In a month or so, we'll find out when he contracted it and it will probably coincide with the temples opening.

God, I'm a ghoul, but I what Bednar is saying is nearly opposite to what Nelson is doing and it just happened to become a prominent story on the same day it was announced Holland was in the hospital.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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