Grrrrrrrrr

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lostinmiddlemormonism
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Grrrrrrrrr

Post by lostinmiddlemormonism » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:44 am

Our idiots...sorry...penisholders....sorry priesthood leaders, in their infinitesimal wisdom have determined that it is now time for us to return and meet as a ward in the building.

This in spite of the fact that, in our area, the virus is returning in a second wave. They have used quote like, 'be like Nephi, he went even though he didn't know how it would work out' or 'staying home is selfish'.

I really don't have enough swear words....


-lost

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nibbler
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Re: Grrrrrrrrr

Post by nibbler » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:37 am

Just say, "Thanks, but no thanks."

It's going to be a challenge going forward. Staying home over health concerns is a reason everyone at church can understand and get behind but that will not stop people at church from applying guilt/pressure to get people to return to meeting in person.

I imagine a good portion of the October general conference will be dedicated to convincing members that meeting at church is requisite and that we should all get back to it as soon as possible.

Pressure will come in the form of quoting scripture. They did meet together oft. They gathered at the waters of Mormon. Gathering of Israel. Etc.
Pressure will come in the form of constantly asking. Are you coming back yet? I noticed you weren't at church this Sunday either, when are you coming back? Why aren't you comfortable coming back? Etc.
Pressure will come in the form of a return to obligations. I have to go back, I'm the [fill in the blank calling]. You have to visit your assigned ministering families. Etc.

It will be another issue over which boundaries will be tested and boundaries will be violated. Typical church culture. Be prepared to politely say no and do your best to do so without feeling guilty about it.

If you're in the same household as a person that is itching to return or will buckle under light pressure... sorry. It really is an irresponsible move on the part of the leaders.
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

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RubinHighlander
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Re: Grrrrrrrrr

Post by RubinHighlander » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:41 am

I wonder if there is potential liability here. Local leaders say go back. The church teaches to obey local leaders. Someone get's sick and dies because they were obedient or a bunch of people get really sick and some of those have a lifetime of health issues because of it. I mean, TBMs don't sign a liability waiver to go back to church, like you do when you are young and going to a girls or boys camp. But I can see the day when that's coming because somebody could end up court, holding those local leaders liable over something like this.
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
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Red Ryder
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Re: Grrrrrrrrr

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:23 am

Nibbler has the right idea.

However... :lol:

You need to start a whisper campaign amongst your ward and neighborhood. Start sending emails asking “I heard a few people in the ward have COVID, is that true? Are you sure we should go back so soon?”

I heard brother jones was really sick. I hope it’s not the virus. It’s too soon to go back!

A little push back goes along way.

Ive been telling everyone I know it just doesn’t make any sense when you can have church at home.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Not Buying It
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Re: Grrrrrrrrr

Post by Not Buying It » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:43 am

nibbler wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:37 am
It will be another issue over which boundaries will be tested and boundaries will be violated. Typical church culture. Be prepared to politely say no and do your best to do so without feeling guilty about it.
Yep. The question you need to ask yourself is this - what are you risking your health and the health of your family for? Mostly social pressure from a bunch of people you probably don't like anyway? Tell them you don't feel comfortable going back, and if they get pushy tell them to mind their own damn business. Lie and say you had a close friend die of COVID and you aren't comfortable going on. Say you are feeling symptoms and aren't sure you should go just in case.

Better yet, just don't tell them anything, how you choose to worship is none of their business anyway.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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jfro18
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Re: Grrrrrrrrr

Post by jfro18 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:55 am

They're trying to open here... I'm in Illinois which is much stricter than most states, but they just moved to "phase 4" last week where 50 people can be there at once.

So in one stake where I know some people who recently left, they sent a survey out to ask their comfort level and what concerns they have before reopening.

In our stake I have no idea what is going on since DW doesn't talk to me about that stuff, but the dude that comes over to sacramentize her says he doesn't want to rush back even if they reopen because his wife is a medical professional who knows what this does. SHOCKER.

Anyway... I don't think there is ANY shame in saying you are not comfortable returning yet. I have no idea why they would hold that against anyone - especially given that Utah is currently spiking up a bit.

In Illinois I believe they're trying to do a rotating sacrament meeting where 50 can go and then they do like every other week or something.

It's stupid mostly because I was told three months ago about how the greatest thing about this true and living church is that you can do it all from home... and now all of the sudden there seems to be a rush to get people back in there which is being fueled by that recent Bednar tantrum. Which is it - a true home centered church that fills you with such a spirit you'll never stray or one that requires people to go every week or else they'll realize how great it is not needing it?

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wtfluff
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Re: Grrrrrrrrr

Post by wtfluff » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:20 am

nibbler wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:37 am
I imagine a good portion of the October general conference will be dedicated to convincing members that meeting at church is requisite and that we should all get back to it as soon as possible.
And... Since they've already announced that the October LD$-Inc. convention will be virtual again, they'll likely be sitting in a little auditorium, with a small/tiny contingent of people present.

If they do preach that folks should be meeting together when they themselves are not... Contradiction much?




So far, the believing folks in my home have not been back to LD$-Inc. meetings. I personally am not in the loop enough to know if "The Ward" has started meeting again or not.

Of course those same believers are involved in other things that are fairly high-risk as far as COVID is concerned. Even so, I personally think that religious meetings are extremely high risk, based on the fact that there have been many outbreaks all over the world tied to said meetings. As the angry apostate, I doubt anything I say will deter those believers from going back when they decide they want to. :cry:
Last edited by wtfluff on Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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Blashyrkh
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Re: Grrrrrrrrr

Post by Blashyrkh » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:21 am

Tithing revenue must be slipping. Either than of more and more people are starting to realize just how nice second Saturday really is.

Reuben
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Re: Grrrrrrrrr

Post by Reuben » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:30 am

"Oh, that's *cough* wonderful news! I'm soooooo gla-*hack*-ad we can finally put all this *hiccough* Covid business behind us and meet together *hack hack* off *hack* oft again!"
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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Just This Guy
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Re: Grrrrrrrrr

Post by Just This Guy » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:56 am

"We believe in being subject to kings, president, judges, magistrates, in obeying, honoring and sustaining the law." If the local government has banned large gatherings of people, then a good church member will follow the government's directions.

I bet this will cause some cognitive dissonance for some people.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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Red Ryder
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Re: Grrrrrrrrr

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:38 pm

“jfro18” wrote: but the dude that comes over to sacramentize her...
OMG! Ha ha ha. That is hilarious.

Sorry to laugh but ha ha ha ha ha.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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græy
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Re: Grrrrrrrrr

Post by græy » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:28 pm

I vote just don't go. There is no reason to feel judged for keeping yourself and your family safe.

Stay home, stay safe. Watch the rest of the ward and stake try to find space in the hospital come August.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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Linked
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Re: Grrrrrrrrr

Post by Linked » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:37 pm

Wow lost, that is just stupid for them to be applying pressure like that. Like others have mentioned, the potential legal liability there could destroy your idiot's lives. Not to mention the guilt of knowing that they caused someone's (or more) death (although if they are pressuring now, I suspect they are very good at shedding appropriate guilt).

So far I have been somewhat impressed with the local bishop's approach. Though with the spike in Utah I think they should cancel any plans to meet. But a few weeks ago they created a plan to open in mid-July with small groups. The email was adamant that there would be no judging for not attending, and they basically begged the 65+ crowd not to come. Hopefully they push back their plans, and keep the reasonable tone.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Ghost
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Re: Grrrrrrrrr

Post by Ghost » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:15 pm

In my area, the message has been similar to what Linked described. There are some dates starting next month when partial wards can begin to meet occasionally (though at this point I'll be surprised if those dates aren't pushed back), but they started out by saying that you can't come if you're over 65 and you should stay home if you're uncomfortable with the idea of meeting.

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moksha
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Re: Grrrrrrrrr

Post by moksha » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:11 am

The Church has already announced that the October General Conference will be conducted in a safe TV location. The leadership is taking no chances for themselves. They intend to stay alive.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Grrrrrrrrr

Post by Mormorrisey » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:30 pm

Is there any way you could hit "reply all" to the email you received, and just send back Alma 32:9-11, as the reason you are not going?

"9 Behold thy brother hath said, What shall we do?—for we are cast out of our synagogues, that we cannot worship our God.

10 Behold I say unto you, do ye suppose that ye cannot worship God save it be in your synagogues only?

11 And moreover, I would ask, do ye suppose that ye must not worship God only once in a week?"

Nothing better than answering Mormon nonsense with their own nonsense. That's what I plan on doing should it come to that. I feel very lucky that Sis M, for all her TBMishness, is not really eager to go back to church quite yet. Thank God. That and for right now, our stake has no plans on opening up the building for the immediate future. We may be the planet's wimps, but I'm sure glad in this instance for Canadian prudence, primness and order.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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StarbucksMom
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Re: Grrrrrrrrr

Post by StarbucksMom » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:15 am

So dumb and like fluff pointed out; hypocritical because the CEO and his board of directors aren’t even willing to hold a group conference. They’re losing control and tithing, so hey let’s keep our 80+ year old selves safe in a bubble and let the members risk their lives so they will stay loyal. Selfish. Assholes.

I told my believing husband I will not go back til there’s a vaccine (available to the public.) Period. He didn’t argue. Just say that to your ward and family. Help them understand. There are a LOT of stories in the news about this spreading at churches. One of my husband’s employees
got it at his church, and his fiancee also. Share some of those stories with your ward leaders and your family. Say we need to wait for a vaccine. This is a time when it’s better to speak up. Save lives. Prevent more pressure on overworked health professionals in crowded hospitals. Here in AZ, our governor has ordered triage care where they decide who to save based on their odds. My friend is an ER RN and said it’s super scary, and heaven forbid you have a heart attack or cancer or whatever, because all their resources and attention are on COVID right now.

ALL OF MY FRIENDS HERE:SAY NO TO CHURCH PRESSURE TO RETURN. Say it LOUDLY AND TELL THEM WHY. Help them see how stupid returning is.

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Hagoth
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Re: Grrrrrrrrr

Post by Hagoth » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:52 am

Geez, guys. Everybody knows that even if you die you'll be rewarded for it 100 times over in some vaguely defined next life, as long as you are obeying the Priesthood. But what about the possibility of causing the deaths of friends and loved ones? Does that fear give you license to ignore the commandments of God (via a hierarchy of some guys who never actually say "thus saith the Lord)? Ask yourselves what would Abraham do? Sharpen up those knives, brothers and sisters.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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wtfluff
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Re: Grrrrrrrrr

Post by wtfluff » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:20 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:52 am
Geez, guys. Everybody knows that even if you die you'll be rewarded for it 100 times over in some vaguely defined next life, as long as you are obeying the Priesthood. But what about the possibility of causing the deaths of friends and loved ones? Does that fear give you license to ignore the commandments of God (via a hierarchy of some guys who never actually say "thus saith the Lord)? Ask yourselves what would Abraham do? Sharpen up those knives, brothers and sisters.
#NotaDeathCult

Sorry, too far?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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Give It Time
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Re: Grrrrrrrrr

Post by Give It Time » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:29 pm

You know the nature of the Mormon beast. It is what it is. It presents itself as a golden retriever, but it's actually a crocodile trying to take up residence in your pool. You're not going to change the crocodile. Accept the crocodile for what it is. It's not your job to fix their stupid. It's your job to live your life.

Just tell them "no". It's a complete sentence and does not require an explanation or an education. Believe me, there is a shit-ton of stuff floating around on the internet and if someone wants to educate themselves about Covid, they can. They can mis-educate themselves, too, and the decision you make in how you want to handle it is yours. No one else's. It. Is. None. Of. Their. Business.

Are they going to respect your "no" and try to shame you and bring you back? Yup. Let that disrespect for your situation reassure you you've made the right decision. When they come at you again, and they will, no matter how much persuasion and long suffering and scripture quoting you do to them, they will come back, because they are Mormons and that's how they do things. Just say "no". Close the door, put down the phone, close the email or social media page, pick up the love bomb with a shovel and put it straight in the trash. Then go grab yourself a bottle of beer and drink a toast to yourself for having stayed true to your standards.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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