DW Back To Church

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Linked
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DW Back To Church

Post by Linked » Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:04 pm

My ward is meeting and DW is going to sacrament meeting for the first time since the coronavirus shutdowns hit Utah. I will be staying home with our kids. She emailed the bishop letting him know that she would be coming to SM alone a few weeks ago. Today I got a message asking if she or I would be willing to stay after to help sanitize the building for the next group. After working it out with her I told them that she would be willing to help. Then I was told that she needs to be at a meeting Saturday morning to learn what she needs to do.

She went from 2 Saturdays to none in one fell swoop and she is not looking forward to it.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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jfro18
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Re: DW Back To Church

Post by jfro18 » Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:49 pm

Ugh... I'm just waiting for it here in Illinois... the restrictions are much more, but they are thinking of just rotating SM for groups so that people who want to go can go every other week or something.

I wonder if your wife will dislike going from two Saturdays to none enough to think about other things... I have a feeling that could happen for some people as they go back, but I have no hope of that happening with my wife.

hmb
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Re: DW Back To Church

Post by hmb » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:45 am

Our small ward doesn't share the building. They are rotating our one ward into 4 separate sacrament meetings. I don't know how they assign families to which meeting. The meetings will be 30-45 minutes. One talk, sacrament, and music (but no singing). Sacrament will be prepared with masks and gloves. If I were active, I would be told to stay home since I'm old. They are putting off children and youth meetings for now. So many members have to travel 30-40 minutes to get to church. I can't see traveling for a 30-40 minute service. Although, that is so much better than 3 long hours.

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Mormorrisey
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Re: DW Back To Church

Post by Mormorrisey » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:18 am

Linked wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:04 pm

She went from 2 Saturdays to none in one fell swoop and she is not looking forward to it.
Man, if both you and I could get our respective missuses to think about WHY they aren't excited to go back, then further critical thinking about a host of other things could start to take place. That's the hope, isn't it? But like you, I fear my hopes will be dashed along the rocks of other hopes I have had.

Oh well. Hope springs eternal - at least you have an out, which is more than I've got. All my kids are technically adults! Thank goodness they are being very cautious where I live, and they're thinking August opening of church at the earliest, last HC meeting we Zoomed (well, really I just zoomed in and out of.)
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
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nibbler
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Re: DW Back To Church

Post by nibbler » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:40 am

Linked wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:04 pm
Today I got a message asking if she or I would be willing to stay after to help sanitize the building for the next group. After working it out with her I told them that she would be willing to help. Then I was told that she needs to be at a meeting Saturday morning to learn what she needs to do.
This may just be a gap or missing detail but it sounds like you're serving as an intermediary between your wife and people at church.
Linked wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:04 pm
My ward is meeting and DW is going to sacrament meeting for the first time since the coronavirus shutdowns hit Utah. I will be staying home with our kids. She emailed the bishop letting him know that she would be coming to SM alone a few weeks ago.
That's a tough spot to be in. I think of all the families out there where one person wants to stay home to remain safe during a pandemic but someone else wants to attend church. It's a lose-lose situation for the person that wants to stay safe. Even if they remain at home, the attending family member may bring the virus back to the home.
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

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nibbler
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Re: DW Back To Church

Post by nibbler » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:44 am

hmb wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:45 am
The meetings will be 30-45 minutes. One talk, sacrament, and music (but no singing).
I realize this is one of many ways that I'm not like other people but are people really that desperate to listen to a SM talk?

Maybe it's really the sacrament or to see and be seen and the talk is just to make the meeting more formal.
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

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jfro18
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Re: DW Back To Church

Post by jfro18 » Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:30 am

DW wants to get back I think for two reasons

1. She has two dudes coming each week so she can partake of the sacrament and I assume would rather not have to deal with that in front of me

2. She has become somewhat radicalized politically in recent years, and I think she feels like allowing protests but not church is persecuting religion... we've had conversations along those lines but when I point out the outbreaks that have come from churches she shuts it down

So I think she will absolutely go once they open back up, which is another depressing reminder that DW is firmly in with the DezNat crew that she follows and reads on Twitter.

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græy
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Re: DW Back To Church

Post by græy » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:06 pm

Mormorrisey wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:18 am
Linked wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:04 pm

She went from 2 Saturdays to none in one fell swoop and she is not looking forward to it.
Man, if both you and I could get our respective missuses to think about WHY they aren't excited to go back, then further critical thinking about a host of other things could start to take place. That's the hope, isn't it? But like you, I fear my hopes will be dashed along the rocks of other hopes I have had.
This has been a sticking point for me for a long time. Everyone claims they love the church and going to church. And yet, when it dropped to just 2 hour meetings, there was so much rejoicing. Now, probably 95% of everyone I've spoken with don't miss church at all and are rather enjoying their stay-home Sundays. And yet, they hold on to the claim that the church makes them so happy and are planning to go back when summoned.

For my part, DW has never embraced the "second Saturday" mindset. She plans rather thorough primary sharing-time style lessons for the kids while I do a quick passing of the sacrament. The rest of the day is spent in extreme boredom since TV/Movies/Bikes/Pools etc. are all out-of-bounds for sabbath activities. I have persuaded her to let the kids have some screen time, so long as they spend it playing games together, but that is still very limited. I wind up reading a lot and looking forward to an evening walk just to get out of the house.

I'm not going back to church any time soon. But in a way, the anxiety and headache inducing meetings did break up the extreme boredom of sabbath day delight.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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MerrieMiss
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Re: DW Back To Church

Post by MerrieMiss » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:39 pm

My husband’s sister and his parents have church this coming weekend (different county/stake from ours). His mom refuses to go and asked my husband to talk his dad out of it (age/health concerns) but his dad says he needs to go because he is in leadership and can’t let people down, whatever that means.

Our stake has a tentative opening date in September, but I doubt it’s going to happen the way things are going. My husband is in no hurry to go back, and while not quite as adamant about keeping the sabbath as Grey’s wife, it’s still Sunday, and quite the boring day.

I do know some people who genuinely miss church, but are not excited to go back. They miss the socialization, and with the current restrictions in place, church will not being giving them what they need and want most.

I’m irritated that bars are open, churches are open, the mall is open, restaurants are open, I can sign my kid up for basketball camp, protests are still going on, and across the river, family fun centers are up and running - but the parks are still barricaded and roped up. We’ve been riding bikes, doing hikes, walks for the past three months. I’m tired of telling my youngest to stop using the kitchen as his own personal jungle gym.

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Linked
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Re: DW Back To Church

Post by Linked » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:22 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:49 pm
Ugh... I'm just waiting for it here in Illinois... the restrictions are much more, but they are thinking of just rotating SM for groups so that people who want to go can go every other week or something.

I wonder if your wife will dislike going from two Saturdays to none enough to think about other things... I have a feeling that could happen for some people as they go back, but I have no hope of that happening with my wife.
Yeah, our stake is doing something like that. Each ward gets one Sunday a month, then that ward splits into 3 smaller groups that each have sacrament meeting one after the other.

My wife is a doer, she likes to know what she needs to do so she can do it. With that in mind, she was prepared to be content with Sunday church, but the curveball of taking some of her Saturday too was unexpected and unwanted. Them taking things from her unexpectedly is certainly more effective than anything I've done to convince her, but I doubt it will lead to a change of heart.


Mormorrisey wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:18 am
Linked wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:04 pm

She went from 2 Saturdays to none in one fell swoop and she is not looking forward to it.
Man, if both you and I could get our respective missuses to think about WHY they aren't excited to go back, then further critical thinking about a host of other things could start to take place. That's the hope, isn't it? But like you, I fear my hopes will be dashed along the rocks of other hopes I have had.

Oh well. Hope springs eternal - at least you have an out, which is more than I've got. All my kids are technically adults! Thank goodness they are being very cautious where I live, and they're thinking August opening of church at the earliest, last HC meeting we Zoomed (well, really I just zoomed in and out of.)
Wouldn't that be nice if this got the wheels turning? But this isn't the first time she's done something she doesn't want to for the church. Oh well indeed.


nibbler wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:40 am
Linked wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:04 pm
Today I got a message asking if she or I would be willing to stay after to help sanitize the building for the next group. After working it out with her I told them that she would be willing to help. Then I was told that she needs to be at a meeting Saturday morning to learn what she needs to do.
This may just be a gap or missing detail but it sounds like you're serving as an intermediary between your wife and people at church.
Yeah, I was trying to show how even though SHE responded that she was coming alone, they still asked me about cleaning. I'm not sure if they didn't read her email, or if this was a poor passive-aggressive attempt to get me to come, or if our neighbor who contacted me is worried about contacting a woman. After I got the first message I did as you say, serving as an intermediary; DW prefers less contact from people anyway.
nibbler wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:40 am
Linked wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:04 pm
My ward is meeting and DW is going to sacrament meeting for the first time since the coronavirus shutdowns hit Utah. I will be staying home with our kids. She emailed the bishop letting him know that she would be coming to SM alone a few weeks ago.
That's a tough spot to be in. I think of all the families out there where one person wants to stay home to remain safe during a pandemic but someone else wants to attend church. It's a lose-lose situation for the person that wants to stay safe. Even if they remain at home, the attending family member may bring the virus back to the home.
Yeah, it could defeat any other efforts to social distance.
jfro18 wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:30 am
2. She has become somewhat radicalized politically in recent years, and I think she feels like allowing protests but not church is persecuting religion... we've had conversations along those lines but when I point out the outbreaks that have come from churches she shuts it down

So I think she will absolutely go once they open back up, which is another depressing reminder that DW is firmly in with the DezNat crew that she follows and reads on Twitter.
This sounds like hell, I am so sorry jfro.
græy wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:06 pm
Mormorrisey wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:18 am
Linked wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:04 pm

She went from 2 Saturdays to none in one fell swoop and she is not looking forward to it.
Man, if both you and I could get our respective missuses to think about WHY they aren't excited to go back, then further critical thinking about a host of other things could start to take place. That's the hope, isn't it? But like you, I fear my hopes will be dashed along the rocks of other hopes I have had.
This has been a sticking point for me for a long time. Everyone claims they love the church and going to church. And yet, when it dropped to just 2 hour meetings, there was so much rejoicing. Now, probably 95% of everyone I've spoken with don't miss church at all and are rather enjoying their stay-home Sundays. And yet, they hold on to the claim that the church makes them so happy and are planning to go back when summoned.

For my part, DW has never embraced the "second Saturday" mindset. She plans rather thorough primary sharing-time style lessons for the kids while I do a quick passing of the sacrament. The rest of the day is spent in extreme boredom since TV/Movies/Bikes/Pools etc. are all out-of-bounds for sabbath activities. I have persuaded her to let the kids have some screen time, so long as they spend it playing games together, but that is still very limited. I wind up reading a lot and looking forward to an evening walk just to get out of the house.

I'm not going back to church any time soon. But in a way, the anxiety and headache inducing meetings did break up the extreme boredom of sabbath day delight.
I find this interesting as well. My bishop pulled over for a couple minutes as he was driving home the other day. He was wearing a suit, so I quipped, "Wow, I haven't worn a suit in months!" To which he replied that he likes to wear it to remind him of the sabbath, and that he still has church meetings to go to. I wasn't sure if he was being condescending and preachy or just sharing. Either way, I suspect that those who dress up to sit at home on Sundays are pretty deeply, uh, indoctrinated, and that they really think that they miss church. On this side of things it is hard to fully empathize with that situation.

We allow TV and video games and outdoor activities on Sundays, so second Saturday has been pretty great. We even got some sprinklers fixed one Sunday morning.
MerrieMiss wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:39 pm
My husband’s sister and his parents have church this coming weekend (different county/stake from ours). His mom refuses to go and asked my husband to talk his dad out of it (age/health concerns) but his dad says he needs to go because he is in leadership and can’t let people down, whatever that means.

Our stake has a tentative opening date in September, but I doubt it’s going to happen the way things are going. My husband is in no hurry to go back, and while not quite as adamant about keeping the sabbath as Grey’s wife, it’s still Sunday, and quite the boring day.

I do know some people who genuinely miss church, but are not excited to go back. They miss the socialization, and with the current restrictions in place, church will not being giving them what they need and want most.

I’m irritated that bars are open, churches are open, the mall is open, restaurants are open, I can sign my kid up for basketball camp, protests are still going on, and across the river, family fun centers are up and running - but the parks are still barricaded and roped up. We’ve been riding bikes, doing hikes, walks for the past three months. I’m tired of telling my youngest to stop using the kitchen as his own personal jungle gym.
Your FIL can't let his church superiors down. Nobody he is in leadership over will care if he is there, if his experience is anything like mine. I'm sorry he is putting himself at risk. Our ward has been pretty good about dissuading older folks from attending.

Agreed on the current restrictions preventing people from getting any socialization from church attendance. My ward has asked that no one congregate in the halls after the meetings, and everyone will be sitting far apart for distancing. I bet it would be pretty depressing for an extrovert that enjoys church, almost like getting teased.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

Reuben
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Re: DW Back To Church

Post by Reuben » Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:48 pm

The phenomenon of members enjoying not having to go to church but saying they can't wait to go back is easy to explain.

Liking is different from wanting. Ask any alcoholic, or anyone who has been hungry enough to eat absolutely anything. IMO, the experience of wanting to go back to church but enjoying not having to do it is metaphorically somewhere between the two.
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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Corsair
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Re: DW Back To Church

Post by Corsair » Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:52 pm

My stake is starting up at the end of July with the usual restrictions. I am interested in how the faithful will react in my ward. I'm looking at this as an anthropological experiment.

hmb
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Re: DW Back To Church

Post by hmb » Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:22 am

nibbler wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:44 am
hmb wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:45 am
The meetings will be 30-45 minutes. One talk, sacrament, and music (but no singing).
I realize this is one of many ways that I'm not like other people but are people really that desperate to listen to a SM talk?

Maybe it's really the sacrament or to see and be seen and the talk is just to make the meeting more formal.
Yeah. The email we got said that the sacrament was the focus. Still seems like a long way to travel to eat bread and drink water. Glad I don't have to go.

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græy
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Re: DW Back To Church

Post by græy » Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:44 pm

Our ward had their first back-to-church day yesterday. My family did not go. I did receive reports though that about 30 people attended (usual sacrament attendance of ~140). Within the attendees there were infants, elderly, and at least one family who are known to have had direct physical contact with a COVID-19 positive neighbor.

That last family knew of the COVID diagnosis at least two days before the sacrament meeting and decided to attend anyway rather than quarantine.

The safest option is to not go back until a real vaccine hits.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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nibbler
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Re: DW Back To Church

Post by nibbler » Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:53 pm

græy wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:44 pm
Our ward had their first back-to-church day yesterday. My family did not go. I did receive reports though that about 30 people attended (usual sacrament attendance of ~140). Within the attendees there were infants, elderly, and at least one family who are known to have had direct physical contact with a COVID-19 positive neighbor.
Was that last bit about the family exposed to COVID-19 in the report or just something you knew? If it was in the report, it sounds like your BP is trying to scare people off church attendance so he can extend his break. :)
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

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græy
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Re: DW Back To Church

Post by græy » Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:01 pm

nibbler wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:53 pm
græy wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:44 pm
Our ward had their first back-to-church day yesterday. My family did not go. I did receive reports though that about 30 people attended (usual sacrament attendance of ~140). Within the attendees there were infants, elderly, and at least one family who are known to have had direct physical contact with a COVID-19 positive neighbor.
Was that last bit about the family exposed to COVID-19 in the report or just something you knew? If it was in the report, it sounds like your BP is trying to scare people off church attendance so he can extend his break. :)
Haha, our bishop is much to TBM to push anyone away. The father and son of that family visited a single woman in our ward who has been receiving food assistance. They found she was not feeling well. Since I'm in the EQ they reported that visit back to me. Two days later she called them to let them know she tested COVID positive. The father again, reported the update back to me. Bishop was also made aware. That was last Friday.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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wtfluff
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Re: DW Back To Church

Post by wtfluff » Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:36 pm

Well... Looks like the "ward" I reside in is back to meeting next Sunday.

45 minutes, A - H last names at 9:00, I - Z last names at 11: 30. Looks like They'll only having the LDS COVID party every 4 weeks.

I've decided that my last now name starts with an unknown character. Not as cool as the character Prince used for a time, but I'm still not on the "list" to go be bored to death, and partake in symbolic cannibalism, so no meetings for me.

I guess I'll find out next week if the "believers" in my home attend.

The bishop of the ward I reside in did emphasize a decent list of"safety precautions"(but didn't encourage face coverings?), and also did include a paragraph encouraging certain folks NOT to attend, and to continue their celebration of symbolic cannibalism at home. I guess I'll give him some kudos, with one demerit for the face coverings miss.


In my opinion: This is a completely stupid thing to do. No-one has died, or been permanently disabled from NOT taking the sacrament. If these folks really need to do this, find a local park or school-yard, and someone with a P.A. System for the lame repetitive speeches and teenage magickal incantations , every family brings their own baggie of Wonder Bread, and a container of water and disposable cups, which the set "opened" on a white hankie saved from the last temple Hosana Mumble, and there you go. Why not even to so far as to tell folks to wear comfortable clothing for the outdoor revival too? It would be infinitely better than those stuffy, filthy buildings, with who-knows-what being circulated through the air-system over, and over, and over.

I'm just an angry apostate though, thanks for listening to my Ted-Rant.



Edit: After thinking for a few more minutes, I should take a step back and admit that the believers residing in my home are already high-risk anyway, so 45 minutes hanging out with a bunch of people wearing magick underwear isn't going to increase their risk that much anyway... My MORmON passive-aggressiveness still wants to wear my respirator with the giant pucks around them for a while after they return from LD$-Inc. meetings though. :twisted:
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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2bizE
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Re: DW Back To Church

Post by 2bizE » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:56 am

I’m going to be honest...this Covid pandemic has been amazing for church. My church involvement went from about 5-8 hours per week to 30 minutes. It has been amazing. I’m happier. My family is happier. We don’t really care that much for church relationships. They are usually a mind and time suck. It has allowed me and everyone to be inactive without the hassle.
Our church started back up last Sunday I think. My TBM wife doesn’t have any real desire to return. She loves studying at home. She loves our short sacrament meetings. The whole family is involved in home sacrament where normally, my children don’t like going to church.
At some point, why wife will want to go back....I’m loving this vacation too much.
~2bizE

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alas
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Re: DW Back To Church

Post by alas » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:08 am

My husband gets emails from our Hurricane Utah ward. They are on a standard restrictions kind of schedule, but what I though was interesting was part of the instructions along with “no visiting in the foyer” was to please, please step outside into the parking lot and visit using social distancing. Someone recognized the need for socializing and at least tried to encourage it. Only problem is that temperatures in that parking lot are upwards of 120 F. Then air temp in the shade has been hitting 110 F, so I shudder to think about the asphalt parking lot in full sun. But just think how quickly the dry air, UV light, and pure heat will kill any airborne virus. Rather then people dying from the virus, they will die of heat stroke. But at least someone recognized the need for some social interaction.

As for our ward at Bear Lake for the summer, they are only holding meetings for the tourists, in the brand new building built especially for tourists. The local wards are not meeting at all. Some of the locals are pretty pissed that the tourists get church and they don’t. But I have not heard anyone so pissed as to try to attend with the tourists. They have found it next to impossible to keep the numbers under 200, but on busy weekends in normal years, it usually hits 1,000 to 2,000 tourists, per each of the two wards that have tourists. (That is Garden City, and St Charles wards. St Charles includes all the homes on the east shore, as Dingle and Lake Side just are not able to deal with hundreds of tourists) Every weekend this summer has been mobbed with tourists, so much so that internet and food establishments just can’t handle it. We are so staying away from town and beaches this year. So, please don’t anybody think a weekend at the lake would be great. Wall to wall people and the state parks closing at 9 am because they are already too full. I think without church, more people spend weekends outdoors.

But I think DH is missing church and I don’t know if I can stop him from returning as soon as it is possible, probably this fall.

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jfro18
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Re: DW Back To Church

Post by jfro18 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:02 am

DW just told me that church is starting back up tomorrow and she's going.

I don't know why this makes me so depressed, but it does. Partly because my mom has a compromised immune system and DW knows this and is going anyway.

Partly because she's rushing to get back the first chance she has, knowing that outbreaks have happened at church services around the country.

And partly because she's gotten even more retrenched during the pandemic, even telling me "you've already gone to the dark side" when I said I was happy the Supreme Court gave legal protections to LGBTQ people. (She said it sarcastically but in that joking, not joking way).

Ugh.

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