Petition regarding BYU

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blazerb
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Petition regarding BYU

Post by blazerb » Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:39 pm

There is a change.org petition to make "Christ-centered education" emphasized at BYU. You can read it here:
https://www.change.org/p/brigham-young- ... e_petition.

I am always interested in the conflict in the church between those that want a big tent and those that want purity in the teachings. I read on a blog (https://www.millennialstar.org/byu-stud ... al+Star%29) that the reason for the petition was the inability of the students to find a faculty advisor for a pro-life club they wanted to form. There are a lot of faculty members at BYU. If they cannot find one who will advise the group, that indicates that someone higher up is telling them not to, at least to me. One thing that many noted at that blog is that the petition is very vague. They don't come out and specify the actions that are prompting the petition. Those that support the petition are guessing that they have common cause, but they don't really know.

The leadership knows that BYU and its notoriety helps the church to get and keep members. I think that the church will have to choose soon how they want to handle BYU. Do they want respected scholars who publish and bring in grants or do they want to keep the most TBM of members happy?

A note that may interest only me: the creator of the petition is the student who interviewed John Gee in the podcast referenced in the interview with Robert Ritner, unless there is more than one Hanna Seariac at BYU.

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jfro18
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Re: Petition regarding BYU

Post by jfro18 » Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:41 pm

This is literally how the church has rebranded itself under Nelson - are they saying BYU's education isn't "Christ centered" enough?

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blazerb
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Re: Petition regarding BYU

Post by blazerb » Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:13 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:41 pm
This is literally how the church has rebranded itself under Nelson - are they saying BYU's education isn't "Christ centered" enough?
Apparently. There seems to be a lot of concerned faithful. They are telling stories of students losing their faith at BYU. Of course, correlation and causation is never discussed.

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wtfluff
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Re: Petition regarding BYU

Post by wtfluff » Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:53 pm

NeedJesus.jpg
NeedJesus.jpg (44.24 KiB) Viewed 563 times


Maybe they should start with re-naming the entire university?


Edited to add a more better meme...
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

Reuben
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Re: Petition regarding BYU

Post by Reuben » Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:51 pm

blazerb wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:13 pm
jfro18 wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:41 pm
This is literally how the church has rebranded itself under Nelson - are they saying BYU's education isn't "Christ centered" enough?
Apparently. There seems to be a lot of concerned faithful. They are telling stories of students losing their faith at BYU. Of course, correlation and causation is never discussed.
It sucks that diving into any area of study weakens at least 5 truth claims. The sciences are the worst for this, but philosophy and literature will do you in, too. Double-majoring is one of the most dangerous things you could do at BYU, unless one of your majors is law.

This encroachment of reality on our faith must cease!
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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moksha
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Re: Petition regarding BYU

Post by moksha » Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:31 am

Hanna Seariac is all over the place in LDS message board links.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Hagoth
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Re: Petition regarding BYU

Post by Hagoth » Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:43 am

How about just an education-centered education?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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jfro18
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Re: Petition regarding BYU

Post by jfro18 » Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:03 am

This paragraph is really where you can see how the church is operating these days:
When asked what her overarching goal in promoting the petition is, Seariac said, “We want to have Jesus Christ be the center of all disciplines at BYU. We do not want professors to speak in direct opposition to the church and we would like to have members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints feel as though BYU is a campus that allows them to explore, develop and strengthen their faith.”
When they say they're wanting a "Christ centered church" they using the name Jesus Christ to say they want a CHURCH centered education.

That's the same move Nelson has made - rebrand the church to be around Christ while the overreaching theme of GenCon and devotionals is to obey leaders.

What I find funny is that she claims that professors are teaching in "direct opposition to the church," yet she never says what they're saying that is in direct opposition. Weird.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Petition regarding BYU

Post by Red Ryder » Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:40 pm

It appears students are exploring, developing, then losing their faith at BYU. Yet these people don’t realize it’s the product that’s bad.

Adding Jesus isn’t the answer.

Christ centered Accounting, Computer Science, Engineering, etc be like:

Image
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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blazerb
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Re: Petition regarding BYU

Post by blazerb » Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:36 am

I have thought about this petition a lot. I listened to a couple more of Hanna Seariac's podcasts (I don't recommend them. They are painful). She and those that agree with her are getting disillusioned with the lack of faith displayed by the leadership of BYU. They have testimonies deep down that if the church cleaned house at BYU, there would be a renaissance of faith. Young people would stay active. The CES letter would be cast down.

The problem for them is that the actions that were taken were done with the approval and support of the Q15. BYU did not change the Honor Code without conferring heavily with the upper leadership. I am quite sure that the upper leadership thought they could make the change and just quietly allow a few students to hold hands or kiss members of their own sex. It would be on the down low and easily ignored. However, those students celebrated their new freedom. They wanted the world to see them. Maybe the leadership still thinks they can gradually loosen the rules since they have to know that the current position regarding LGBT+ issues is untenable. They just don't have an answer to Elder Packer's question, "Why would a loving Heavenly Father do that?"

Also, if they could not find an advisor for a pro-life club, that means that the Q15 does not want a pro-life club on campus. They do not want the image of BYU students organized to picket at Planned Parenthood. I think they probably want a Planned Parenthood in Provo to prevent more embarrassing expulsions of pregnant girls.

The church also wants to see the faculty members of BYU presenting great research in their professional areas. They don't necessarily want that research to reach the members in the pews, but the notoriety received by the church whenever a BYU professor is interviewed for a national publication is welcome (unless they say something stupid like Randy Bott). The church accepts that "human sacrifice" in the Ensign article has to become "state-sanctioned killing" in the professional publication because church publications need the right spin and professional publications have standards of honesty.

The church needs the Patrick Mason's and Givens's in the church. It needs that business professor who told his students that the change in the Honor Code was exactly what was needed, even if they had to pull the rug out from under him. It needs those people who can make the church appear respectable to the world because they don't want to be seen as leading a bunch of fanatics.

I would be vaguely interested to see where the creators of this petition are in 10 years. Sorry for the rant. I think I got it out of my system for now.

misterfake371
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Re: Petition regarding BYU

Post by misterfake371 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:13 pm

I can't believe they can't find a faculty sponsor at BYU for a pro-life club! Is there any update on this?

I'm actually a hardcore pro-lifer now. I oppose abortion in every circumstance. Have you guys seen the movie "Unplanned?" It's great. It's about Abby Johnson, a Planned Parenthood employee who became a pro-life activist. She's actually going to speak at the RNC this week, so that's exciting.
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. Ecclesiastes 12:13

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moksha
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Re: Petition regarding BYU

Post by moksha » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:15 am

Does anyone know if this movement by Hanna Seariac and Tristan Mourier to drive moderate and liberal professors (and students) out of BYU is succeeding or failing? I have read elsewhere of the involvement of these two with the Deseret Nation (DesNaz), so I personally think it is unfortunate that this is being attempted at BYU, but this is how such tragedies start.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Just This Guy
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Re: Petition regarding BYU

Post by Just This Guy » Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:10 am

blazerb wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:36 am
The church also wants to see the faculty members of BYU presenting great research in their professional areas. They don't necessarily want that research to reach the members in the pews, but the notoriety received by the church whenever a BYU professor is interviewed for a national publication is welcome (unless they say something stupid like Randy Bott). The church accepts that "human sacrifice" in the Ensign article has to become "state-sanctioned killing" in the professional publication because church publications need the right spin and professional publications have standards of honesty.

Out here, far from the Moridor, It looks like BYU is loosing a lot of it's clout. I would guess that when it comes to respect from your average person, BYU is probably a bit lower than Liberty University.

If you look at the ranking, BYU is at best average in most of their programs. Accounting seams to be the only one where they are hihgly ranked. Bad publicity like Ritter, publicly calling the work of the top people in BYU's ancient history department complete garbage (in the nicest, most professional way possible) can be very damaging to how people view the school. If their are average to start with, when one department's academic abilities are called into question, people will start to wonder about the school as a whole. When people question a schools academic ability, they take their research funds and grant money elsewhere.

Most people out here know BYU as "that Mormon school." That really puts it in a bad light for most people. Liberal people see that sexism, intolerance to LGBT people, and religion before science. Conservative Christians see Mormons as non-Christian cultists, worshiping JSj or RMN. You have this weird place where Liberty University is at least accepted by Christians (despite the antics of the Falwell family), meaning that more people will accept Liberty than BYU. I don't know if the general public ever really accepted BYU as a good school. The public defiantly does not hold it in as high of esteem as Mormons think it is. What reputation it has had in the past has really dropped off in the last few years as the church's reputation has tanked.

I wonder if at least some people in the BYU leadership are seeing the problem of the school declining in stature (or maybe they are seeing through the Mormon rose colored glasses and seeing the school the way everyone else does) and are attempting to create some policies that are more in line with the rest of the world so they can maintain their non LDSinc. funding sources. Things like students pushing for more "Christ centered" education are not going to help the school build the image they are wanting to stay relevant in the 21st century.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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Red Ryder
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Re: Petition regarding BYU

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:32 am

I think this ties into this conversation.

https://mylifebygogogoff.com/2020/08/h ... ialnetwork

Personally we have a family friend whose son lost his testimony at BYU and the family is super mad about it.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Petition regarding BYU

Post by Mormorrisey » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:08 pm

This is fascinating to me, and it definitely mirrors the larger church, doesn't it? You have a few hardcore TBM's that are decrying the liberal bent of the current church, and instead of turning to the Snufferites, are trying to mold it in their own way. Heck, that's what more liberal Mormons are doing, and they seem to be winning in some circles and losing in others. Just as Hanna Seriac et al are going to win in some circles (the Gee apologists) and will general lose in others (sociology departments, which clearly are full of CULTURAL MARXISM, whatever the hell that is.) Listen, the fact that my kids can shade NOMish while attending church schools tells me all I need to know about the place. And I was worried, very worried about them becoming crazy indoctrinated when they left, and it just hasn't happened.

I've come to the conclusion that EVERYBODY studies "gospel" principles by the "lamp of their own conceit," and believes accordingly. And that group includes so-called prophets, seers and revelators. So keep going Hanna, and one of two things will happen. You will lose, and the church will be way more liberal and that's a good thing. Or, you'll drive all the liberals away and the church will suck hard, and then people like me who are stuck will have no choice but be kicked out by lunatics like you. Either way, it's a win-win!
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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moksha
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Re: Petition regarding BYU

Post by moksha » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:57 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:32 am
Personally we have a family friend whose son lost his testimony at BYU and the family is super mad about it.
It can happen in a bar
It can happen from afar
It can happen in a zoo
It can happen in a loo
It can happen every day
It can happen every way.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Red Ryder
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Re: Petition regarding BYU

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:06 pm

moksha wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:57 pm
Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:32 am
Personally we have a family friend whose son lost his testimony at BYU and the family is super mad about it.
It can happen in a bar
It can happen from afar
It can happen in a zoo
It can happen in a loo
It can happen every day
It can happen every way.
It can happen in a loo?
It can happen at the U
It can happen very near
It can happen very far
It can happen very high
BUT NO WAY CAN IT HAPPEN AT THE Y!!!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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2bizE
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Re: Petition regarding BYU

Post by 2bizE » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:42 pm

So what exactly happens if thousands of people sign the petition?
How will BYU be more like BYU? Is the idea that BYU will turn into BYUI?
~2bizE

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moksha
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Re: Petition regarding BYU

Post by moksha » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:19 am

The Catholics once attempted something similar to this, they called it the Spanish Inquisition. It was even worse than the BYU Honors Committee.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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blazerb
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Re: Petition regarding BYU

Post by blazerb » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:11 am

2bizE wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:42 pm
So what exactly happens if thousands of people sign the petition?
How will BYU be more like BYU? Is the idea that BYU will turn into BYUI?
I think that is exactly the idea. There is an Instagram page called "Keeping Faith at BYU" where students can post the "apostate" things their professors say in class. I'm curious about what exactly the professors said. I would bet that most of the statements in classes come with a greater dose of nuance than is being presented.
moksha wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:19 am
The Catholics once attempted something similar to this, they called it the Spanish Inquisition. It was even worse than the BYU Honors Committee.
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

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