Usefulness of Prophets, Seers, and Revelators

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Hagoth
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Usefulness of Prophets, Seers, and Revelators

Post by Hagoth » Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:58 am

Do you remember the avalanche of prophetic guidance we were getting from the PS&Rs when voters were in danger of giving equal marriage rights to everyone? God really cared about that (spoiler alert: he lost!).

Why are we hearing mostly crickets during a global pandemic (i.e. act of God) where everyone is affected and many members are experiencing the most difficult period of their life, when they really need some inspiration and insight to what God has planned? Most of communiques from the church these days seem to be talking about plans for reopening the temples.

Do they lack the conviction to even pretend to have something under the hood?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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wtfluff
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Re: Usefulness of Prophets, Seers, and Revelators

Post by wtfluff » Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:50 am

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:58 am
Do you remember the avalanche of prophetic guidance we were getting from the PS&Rs when voters were in danger of giving equal marriage rights to everyone? God really cared about that (spoiler alert: he lost!).

Why are we hearing mostly crickets during a global pandemic (i.e. act of God) where everyone is affected and many members are experiencing the most difficult period of their life, when they really need some inspiration and insight to what God has planned? Most of communiques from the church these days seem to be talking about plans for reopening the temples.

Do they lack the conviction to even pretend to have something under the hood?
Talking about the pandemic doesn't generate revenue, thus the radio silence?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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Red Ryder
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Re: Usefulness of Prophets, Seers, and Revelators

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:48 am

Gay isn’t contagious like COVID-19 is. :lol:

The church has always fought the moral values while ignoring the health challenges of its members, relying on the simplicity of the word of wisdom “do not’s” as the gold standard.

I’m wondering if this type of criticism is low hanging fruit? Is there a comparison to the Great Recession, the depression era, other difficult times? The only things I can think of are self serving like “pay your tithing first...”, serve others, follow the spirit.

I think the criticism is valid and a missed opportunity by the church to be a light and beacon to the members of the church. I just don’t think they are smart enough to realize it?

Was Bednar’s statement a few weeks back a cry for the Q15 to step up their game or just another psychopath pushing the Mormon thumb harder on the members?

Or perhaps God has remained silent therefore the Q15 have nothing to say? I mean he has been known to use plagues to keep his children in line.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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blazerb
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Re: Usefulness of Prophets, Seers, and Revelators

Post by blazerb » Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:30 am

This reminded me of this blog post: https://www.the-exponent.com/why-the-ra ... rom-on-top

It is written by a woman who talks about the experience of her friend who feels abandoned by the church. She does not live with a man who can perform the sacrament. While other families proudly post photos of the meetings happening in their homes, this woman just sits on the sidelines. Meanwhile, sources say that the plight of single women on the church is discussed a lot by the upper leadership. The author speculates that the reason nothing is said is that it exposes the problems with church organization. The church has maintained consistently that there is no blessing in holding the priesthood; rather, the priesthood allows men to bless everyone. However, right now we see that the priesthood does not bless everyone. It can only bless those whose lives match the mold set out by the church. If there is a difference, then the priesthood can't get to the person in times like these. If the church were to speak out in order to comfort, it would just highlight the problems without really helping the members.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Usefulness of Prophets, Seers, and Revelators

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:56 pm

Blazer, you bring up excellent points and thanks for the link.

Here’s a simple solution to the single lady with no priesthood problem:

Have Elder Uchtdorf do a weekly YouTube service where he instructs everyone to pull out a slice of read and a cup of water. Then Elder Uchtdorf blesses the bread, instructs the viewers to partake of the bread (with their right hand), then he blesses the water, instructs the viewers to again partake! Wallah! The sacrament has now been offered via the priesthood to all who wish to partake of it! What’s the difference between listening to the prayer and participating inside the chapel and compared to listening to the prayer and partaking at home?

If the Mormons can do eternal ordinances by proxy, surely they can do sacrament by YouTube?

It’s really that simple. Bring the priesthood to the people via the Prophet, Seers, and YouTube Administrators!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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wtfluff
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Re: Usefulness of Prophets, Seers, and Revelators

Post by wtfluff » Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:06 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:56 pm
Blazer, you bring up excellent points and thanks for the link.

Here’s a simple solution to the single lady with no priesthood problem:

Have Elder Uchtdorf do a weekly YouTube service where he instructs everyone to pull out a slice of read and a cup of water. Then Elder Uchtdorf blesses the bread, instructs the viewers to partake of the bread (with their right hand), then he blesses the water, instructs the viewers to again partake! Wallah! The sacrament has now been offered via the priesthood to all who wish to partake of it! What’s the difference between listening to the prayer and participating inside the chapel and compared to listening to the prayer and partaking at home?

If the Mormons can do eternal ordinances by proxy, surely they can do sacrament by YouTube?

It’s really that simple. Bring the priesthood to the people via the Prophet, Seers, and YouTube Administrators!
Well... At some point, early on in the pandemic, a little while after COJCOLd$ meetings got shut down, I read of a ward/stake where the uppity-ups had broadcast that the sacrament couldn't be done via Zoom.

At least in that stake, the Magician reciting the incantation needed to be in the same room with the fake flesh and blood. I guess Elohim's Magick Sacrament Incantations need some modern updating to be effective via technology. [SHRUG]
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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2bizE
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Re: Usefulness of Prophets, Seers, and Revelators

Post by 2bizE » Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:25 pm

I thought the title said “Uselessness” at first. My assessment is they have been pretty useless during the pandemic. Sure, they are all old and hiding out from the real world.
For me, I’ve rather enjoyed a break from them. I’m not complaining.
~2bizE

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Not Buying It
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Re: Usefulness of Prophets, Seers, and Revelators

Post by Not Buying It » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:19 am

You people have such short memories. They had not one, but two worldwide fasts. What, that didn't solve the problem?
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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Hagoth
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Re: Usefulness of Prophets, Seers, and Revelators

Post by Hagoth » Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:45 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:48 am
Gay isn’t contagious like COVID-19 is. :lol:
Dallin Oaks would not agree with that statement, hence his belief that legalizing gay marriage would decimate the population as the wave of gayness swept across the population.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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moksha
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Re: Usefulness of Prophets, Seers, and Revelators

Post by moksha » Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:25 am

After the fall of the Berlin Wall and the end of the cold war, Mormon leaders were forced to pick a new target for their wrath and so they chose homosexuals. They were not counting on the world becoming more accepting of LGBTQ people.

I think the Brethren know that focusing their moral outrage on a virus would be ineffective and it would be a waste of money to wage a costly lobbying effort against the pandemic. Same way with global warming. Why make predictions when their best politicians say it is a hoax? Better to keep a low profile and concentrated on the real estate market.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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alas
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Re: Usefulness of Prophets, Seers, and Revelators

Post by alas » Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:53 am

Hagoth wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:45 pm
Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:48 am
Gay isn’t contagious like COVID-19 is. :lol:
Dallin Oaks would not agree with that statement, hence his belief that legalizing gay marriage would decimate the population as the wave of gayness swept across the population.
He either thinks it is highly contagious or that all men are secretly gay like he is....or both. I have long suspected that he has feelings of attraction to other men that he has to struggle to keep tamped down, which is why he has (a) such a fixation on it. (b) feels that if it becomes acceptable, that *all* men will suddenly decide to become gay and thus no more babies.

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deacon blues
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Re: Usefulness of Prophets, Seers, and Revelators

Post by deacon blues » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:22 am

With hindsight it is easy to say that the Church should have gone from Ohio straight to SLC. They would have avoided the trouble with persecution in Missouri and Illinois. Of course a counter argument would be that the Saints learned from their afflictions. One item on my shelf was realizing the prophets often led the Saints into trouble, and the prophets blamed the Saints for their “lack of faith.”🙄😬😏
God is Love. God is Truth

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blazerb
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Re: Usefulness of Prophets, Seers, and Revelators

Post by blazerb » Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:11 pm

alas wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:53 am
He either thinks it is highly contagious or that all men are secretly gay like he is....or both. I have long suspected that he has feelings of attraction to other men that he has to struggle to keep tamped down, which is why he has (a) such a fixation on it. (b) feels that if it becomes acceptable, that *all* men will suddenly decide to become gay and thus no more babies.
Can you imagine how he feels? Here he is, one of the 15 most spiritually connected men in the world. If he really does feel that way, he is constantly fighting the temptations. He can't be like JS and just give a revelation to normalize his sexual desires. He has to hold the line that he was taught and continues to teach. He would think that all men are homosexuals in embryo.

That said, he would have to see that the legalizing of gay marriage has not led to men in the wider society "deciding" to be homosexual. The percentage of men who say they are homosexual has not increased. They just have felt more comfortable being public. If he were honest, he would admit that the apocalyptic warnings he gave were out of line.

Whether he is a closeted homosexual or not, he is either dishonest or willfully ignorant not to see how wrong he has been. Either way, he is wrong.

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Hagoth
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Re: Usefulness of Prophets, Seers, and Revelators

Post by Hagoth » Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:45 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:06 pm
...I read of a ward/stake where the uppity-ups had broadcast that the sacrament couldn't be done via Zoom.
Has the church made an authoritative declaration about the effective radius of the Priesthood? Surely it has enough broadcast power to cover the ward/stake boundaries.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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wtfluff
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Re: Usefulness of Prophets, Seers, and Revelators

Post by wtfluff » Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:30 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:45 pm
wtfluff wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:06 pm
...I read of a ward/stake where the uppity-ups had broadcast that the sacrament couldn't be done via Zoom.
Has the church made an authoritative declaration about the effective radius of the Priesthood? Surely it has enough broadcast power to cover the ward/stake boundaries.
I was going to type something annoying about the size of said Prieshood, but... Well... I couldn't stop myself.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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Hagoth
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Re: Usefulness of Prophets, Seers, and Revelators

Post by Hagoth » Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:11 am

wtfluff wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:30 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:45 pm
wtfluff wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:06 pm
...I read of a ward/stake where the uppity-ups had broadcast that the sacrament couldn't be done via Zoom.
Has the church made an authoritative declaration about the effective radius of the Priesthood? Surely it has enough broadcast power to cover the ward/stake boundaries.
I was going to type something annoying about the size of said Prieshood, but... Well... I couldn't stop myself.
I think that's a good analogy considering all of the talk about magnifying your priesthood. Priesthoods are not all the same. Some are showers and some are growers. I can imagine Outlook misunderstanding an email from the church and sending it to my Junk folder along with other spam about growth-promoting products.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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moksha
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Re: Usefulness of Prophets, Seers, and Revelators

Post by moksha » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:16 am

moksha wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:25 am
Better to keep a low profile and concentrate on the real estate market.
The Brethren don't even need to issue the buy or sell orders. They've got sharp young workers in the various corporations who can do that for them. Best to stay sequestered from everything and perhaps go over the drafts for the semi-annual speech you will be reading in the hermetically sealed TV studio in October.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Corsair
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Re: Usefulness of Prophets, Seers, and Revelators

Post by Corsair » Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:44 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:56 pm
If the Mormons can do eternal ordinances by proxy, surely they can do sacrament by YouTube?
Other faiths have allowed the sacrament over Zoom or YouTube Live. Many other conservative faiths have simply not done the sacrament for their parishioners. A lot of populist opposition to covid policies has arisen from these kinds of restrictions.

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