Just a reminder - you are better off without "Families are Forever"

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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Not Buying It
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Just a reminder - you are better off without "Families are Forever"

Post by Not Buying It » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:35 am

Just a public service reminder - your believing friends might try and make you feel like you have really lost something by leaving the Church because your "Family" is not "Forever". But I'll tell you what, the pain of not knowing what happens to your family after this life is insignificant next to the pain of being absolutely 110% sure you will be separate from a loved one FOREVER in the Celestial Kingdom because they weren't "valiant" and left the Church. Forever families is a doctrine that causes unimaginable amounts of completely unnecessary pain over a made up doctrine Joseph Smith fabricated to try and get more booty.

Personally, I have no idea what will happen to my family when we die, and I don't bother worrying about it. We might be together, we might not, we might not even exist anymore. Worrying about it doesn't change any of that, it just wastes time I can spend enjoying having them in my life. And at least I don't lie awake at night in anguish that I will be separated from them forever because they chose not to follow an arbitrary set of rules made up by an oppressive and domineering but numerically and culturally insignificant religion.

Have a nice day! And love your family while you have them, don't waste time worrying about what comes after.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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glass shelf
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Re: Just a reminder - you are better off without "Families are Forever"

Post by glass shelf » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:29 am

So true. My believing family members' beliefs cause them a lot of pain over this issue. It's awful, and it leads people to be manipulative and controlling.

Personally, I think this life is all we have, but if I'm wrong, I'll deal with it then.

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græy
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Re: Just a reminder - you are better off without "Families are Forever"

Post by græy » Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:05 pm

Fully agree!

When other friends/families have left the church my DW's comments usually went along the lines of "Don't they know what they're throwing away!??" and "How can they give up on being with their children forever!?" It took multiple families leaving, a lot of conversation, and some tears before she realized that if they genuinely don't believe in the church's claims then they either don't believe families are eternal anyway, or they do and have realized that they don't need the church to keep them together.

When the church has lost its power over you, it shouldn't get to way in on your decisions anymore.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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Red Ryder
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Re: Just a reminder - you are better off without "Families are Forever"

Post by Red Ryder » Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:17 pm

Nobody bears the burden of the lost eternal family more than my mother. She physically wears it on her face like a cancer stricken patient tired and worn out. It hurts to see her struggle with the idea that her wayward sons will not be part of an eternal family. It hurts even worse to watch her attempt to fix the problem by preaching, testifying, and attending the temple so that we can come back to church.

I used to joke with her that I would take a break from my Telestial hobbies to accommodate her visits knowing it might be difficult for her to get away from missionary work, endless meetings, spirit baby pregnancies, and arduous travel time from the Celestial Kingdom.

I’m sure she would be completely exhausted so the least I could do is pause my Telestial afterlife and offer her an ice tea and a non-judgmental ear to listen to her vent about my dad spending to much time with her hundreds of sister wives.

Now I just tell her “Thanks for your concern Mom! I love you too! :lol:
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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jfro18
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Re: Just a reminder - you are better off without "Families are Forever"

Post by jfro18 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:54 pm

This is so frustrating because it makes those who stay in the church double down and retrench due to the belief that they just have to pull the 'non-believer' back in or their eternal heaven is ruined.

For me it was tricky at first to realize I have no idea what happens after death, but now I am just ambivalent to it... my kid asks me if he'll get to see our dog again who died a few years ago, and I just say "I don't know but I hope so."

It's just so toxic to have the "prophet" get up at GenCon and tell members about the Sad Heaven that awaits them if they can't keep everyone in line, but it's clearly effective to keeping people not just in line, but making them work even harder to bring others back to the church.

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moksha
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Re: Just a reminder - you are better off without "Families are Forever"

Post by moksha » Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:51 am

The idea of being with loved ones in the hereafter is pleasant.

The idea that God made a bargain with LDS leaders to make an extra special place for faithful men in the hereafter, to have oodles of wives and be Gods of their own planets, in exchange for 10% of their lifetime earnings seems a bit sketchy to the uninitiated.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

hmb
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Re: Just a reminder - you are better off without "Families are Forever"

Post by hmb » Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:58 am

I had always figured that either God had to be miserable with so many rebellious children or He doesn't care. You figure 1/3 follow Satan from the get-go. Probably a teeny % of the other 2/3 will make it to the CK. Even as a TBM it bugged me (shelf item). My last few years of clinging to stay TBM, I had decided that the CK was not for me. I'd be happy enough living out eternity in a lower, less stressed kingdom. Maybe it's because I'm basically lazy, but who needs to be popping out billions of babies to have most of them fail? No thanks.

I don't worry about my family in the next life, because I no longer believe in any after life. I wish I did, but I can't. Fool me once.

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Newme
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Re: Just a reminder - you are better off without "Families are Forever"

Post by Newme » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:37 am

It depends on perspective. Previously, I saw temples as sacred means of connecting spiritually & ensuring my family would be together. Somehow, that belief took center stage while ignoring my dad, brother & sister on the sidelines, who were prevented from attending my (& others’) temple weddings. Somehow at the time, I was oblivious of the contradiction of temples being supposedly about uniting families while actually dividing them.

Then, years later, I was made even more aware temples being used for evil when DH threatened divorce because I wouldn’t lie to get a recommend (despite otherwise being active)... & I saw how temples are used to make money - overcharging (on income not increase) for temple worthiness. How could I have been so blind? How could my sister, after knowing my DH cheated be on me multiple times, shame me for not keeping my temple covenants?

“Forgive them, for they know not what they do.”
People - all of us at some time - do stupid things out of ignorance.

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Newme
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Re: Just a reminder - you are better off without "Families are Forever"

Post by Newme » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:48 am

hmb wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:58 am
I had always figured that either God had to be miserable with so many rebellious children or He doesn't care. You figure 1/3 follow Satan from the get-go. Probably a teeny % of the other 2/3 will make it to the CK. Even as a TBM it bugged me (shelf item). My last few years of clinging to stay TBM, I had decided that the CK was not for me. I'd be happy enough living out eternity in a lower, less stressed kingdom. Maybe it's because I'm basically lazy, but who needs to be popping out billions of babies to have most of them fail? No thanks.

I don't worry about my family in the next life, because I no longer believe in any after life. I wish I did, but I can't. Fool me once.
Yeah, some lds doctrine & traditions are not only illogical but also dysfunctional. I read, in a book by lds authors, that up to 80% of mental illness is rooted in dysfunctional interpretations of doctrine (or the doctrine themselves). The idea of 1/3 were evil - “the devil made me do it” or that God can only be experienced through an external church or temple - don’t make sense. Eg, “The kingdom of God is within you.” Christ copied Buddha in teaching that obvious truth. How you think or feel about God is within you. Evil, also is an internal phenomenon. 2 people at a party - 1 is hellishly tempted because he struggles with alcoholism - the other’s fine. Evil is also within. I think that’s why we’re meant to “wrestle it out with God.”

Of course you’re entitled to believe as you will, but to me afterlife seems both true & ideal to believe in. Consciousness is part of energy. Energy is not created or destroyed but changes form. So, though I don’t think dwelling too much on reincarnation is useful, it seems likely. Also, Carl Jung suggested belief in an afterlife is “psychologically hygienic” - like trusting the structure you live in to not colapse at any second. But my guess is it’s far more bizarre than Mormon doctrine presents.

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Angel
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Re: Just a reminder - you are better off without "Families are Forever"

Post by Angel » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:54 pm

Reward/punishment motivational systems inherantly cater to selfish/lower survival instincts.

The more noble/higher motivational reasoning comes not from reward/punishment, but a pure love of goodness and progression.

The difference between those disciples who followed Jesus because they wanted free food, vs the disciples who followed Jesus out of love.

Real disciples weren't in it for a reward... not in it for heaven or hell.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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