Church Growth in Times of Pandemic

[Wonderment]

ow...

Temple recommend renewals have dropped.
Ministering interviews have dropped.
Tithing rates have dropped

"We need to reach these people! But it's not about numbers. But we need to get these numbers up! We don't want to lose these people! How do we tell them that they need temple recommends?"

And all of these rates will continue to drop, because the church is on the wrong side of history. At least in America, people don't want what the church continues to offer -- the insularity, the sterility, the thinly disguised homophobia, the rigid gender roles, the support of polygamy in the eternities, the dogma, and the authoritarianism. The church is in decline. It's a slow fade, but it's declining, IMO.

[Reuben]

"People get offended, and if we reach out right away we can get them back. But if we wait, even a single week, it could take years to get them back."

"This is how we grow the church and push people down the covenant path. It is our responsibility to keep them on the covenant path."

People get offended. That's on the church's greatest hits. I don't even know what they mean. An individual offended them? Leadership offended them? What do people get offended over? Being offended seems a weak reason for people to leave, though maybe it's an excuse? It's like being offended because you didn't get enough "likes" on a Facebook post .

Well, you could frame my exit in terms of being offended and get a story that's reasonably accurate. I was offended by the pervasive, aggrandizing, self-deceptive BS that always placed me below true believers on the totem pole. I was offended by the fact that I had to choose between integrity and belonging. I was offended by having to appear to agree with thin excuses for past leaders' awful behavior, especially Joseph Smith's. I was offended by the church having convinced me in bad faith that I had to hand my moral authority over to 15 frightened old men.

There's no way for them to reach out. They would have to admit to the church's offenses and give me some assurance that it wouldn't happen again. Ha! Might as well send missionaries to the moon Quakers.

[DPRoberts]

I will agree with Reuben in that I am willing to own "offended". But with the proviso that the faithful and the disaffected talk past each other when they use the word.

The faithful, speaking generally and not individually, when talking about the offended, are talking about "milk strippings" and other similar Mormon (ding ding a demon got its horns) legends. They are not talking about institutional dishonesty that has a track record going all the way back to the founding of the institution. They are not talking about the banalities they pass off as inspired counsel in a time when truly inspired and inspiring words could help heal broken societies. They are not talking about all the parents and close family members over the years who were excluded from weddings. They are not talking about the scandalous problems of ecclesiastical abuse in many forms.

I can buy into and own being offended on my terms. Can they stop blaming the victims?

[alas]

Of course all measures of activity are still down. We have a pandemic that is still raging across the nation, even if most member want to believe their favorite liar in chief that it is magically over. There are still some members like my husband who have no intention of returning to conditions where they will be exposed to a disease that could be fatal to them. They just are not willing to risk their lives just to make Bednar happy that church is more essential than groceries.

As far as were the inactive offended, yes, I will own up to being offended. Multiple times. The first time I guess I was about 196? when I was offended for black people that I didn’t even know. How could God/the church treat them so second class? And then I started to see that others were second class also, like women, like me. It wasn’t one big offense, but thousands of small paper cuts. All the stories in primary were about boys who grew up to be prophet and I realized that God would never answer my prayers that was because I was a girl. I won’t bother listing the thousands of small ways males were valued more than females, but I saw that God seems to value men, even men like Joseph Bishop, above women and children, even and especially the innocent victims of men like Joseph Bishop. I saw it happen over and over and over. There were a few big things that proved God only loved his sons, there was the temple ceremony, polygamy, and the Bible stories that named Jacobs boys but his daughters were only named if they got raped, there seemed to be actual doctrine that backed up the sexism, so it was hard to argue with because God.

So, yeah, the church is offensive. Is it going to repent? I didn’t think so.

[wtfluff]

Well... Now that this thread has become somewhat of an "I'm offended" confessions thread, I feel I need to join in and:

I will absolutely own that I have been offended. I'm definitely offended by Joseph Smith's actions, and I'm offended by the "Carefully Worded Denials™" that the "church" (corporation) has perpetuated for ~200 years. I'm also offended that my believing family members are blind to the lies that the "church" (corporation) continues to force-feed them.

And: Somewhat related to the original thread subject: I am currently offended that COJCOL-dS-Inc. thinks that "meeting together" in the current pandemic is literally more important than human life. Seriously: The "Govenor" of Utah just declared a new "emergency" surrounding the pandemic, but of course: None of the mandates or restrictions apply to church gatherings. Church "meetings" could literally kill my aging relatives.



Yep, I'm definitely offended. ( <- Laughing to keep myself from ) ( <- Crying... )

[Hagoth]

I was in a similar meeting back when they first realized that church growth had flattened...

About when was this? Did they have any thoughts as to why it started? Just wondering if this was before or after the Internet.

I can't narrow it down to a year but it was somewhere in the general vicinity of 2005.

[Hagoth]

I'm offended by church members and leaders always assuming you are offended, rather than acknowledging that you are merely thinking critically.

[Linked]

Great thread, thanks græy!

"We're losing people who are offended. We're losing people who are having faith crises."

We need to get them back now. If we wait they won't come back.

What about the people who were trapped due family pressures and finally a good time to separate themselves from the church?

[græy]

Great thread, thanks græy!

"We're losing people who are offended. We're losing people who are having faith crises."

We need to get them back now. If we wait they won't come back.

What about the people who were trapped due family pressures and finally a good time to separate themselves from the church?

Sshhh!! *whispering* We don't talk about those people!

[moksha]

I'm guessing that most members not attending are perfectly happy to remain on the Church roles till age 110, at which time they will be removed if not verified to be still alive. Even if there is a tithing hiatus during that interim, the Church still gets to claim their membership.

[hmb]

I always associated the word "offended" with hurt feelings. Like my mom would have hurt feelings if someone made a comment about her wayward kid. She never felt good enough, blah blah blah. She let it go and pushed through to the end as a TBM. For me, I felt like the rug was pulled out from under me when I came to the realization that Joe Smith wasn't what I'd grown up believing. The rest crumbled, but I never felt offended. I felt cheated, lied to, ripped off. For a time, I was devastated. When active members dismiss those who leave as merely offended, it feels cheap, like we were butt hurt over something trivial. What bothers me is that they have no idea the anguish the broken shelf causes. No recognition for the effort to stay in. I did feel a bit offended when I stopped going and was treated like I had a disease, by a the most staunch believers in my ward. That was easy to get over.

I will say that my present ward is taking a very active roll in protecting members during the pandemic. I receive all the email correspondence. They are doing Zoom meetings, and rotate very few members at a time to meet. The leaders are still doing a lot of work. I respect their dedication, even though it's a waste of time.

[Red Ryder]

For me, I felt like the rug was pulled out from under me when I came to the realization that Joe Smith wasn't what I'd grown up believing. The rest crumbled, but I never felt offended. I felt cheated, lied to, ripped off. For a time, I was devastated. When active members dismiss those who leave as merely offended, it feels cheap, like we were butt hurt over something trivial. What bothers me is that they have no idea the anguish the broken shelf causes. No recognition for the effort to stay in. I did feel a bit offended when I stopped going and was treated like I had a disease, by a the most staunch believers in my ward. That was easy to get over.

Love this! It’s been some of the most devastating emotional times for me over a 15 year period yet no one takes the time to empathize with or validate my struggles. I’m just considered a half ass Mormon who doesn’t want to put in the effort to make Mormonism work for me. I tried for a long time but it didn’t change the facts and make the church true. It just made the church a dishonest organization that I want nothing to do with anymore.

[Palerider]

I'm offended by church members and leaders always assuming you are offended, rather than acknowledging that you are merely thinking critically.

Or acknowledging that you might actually have a reasonable point for questioning....instead they assume that you have hastily (and stupidly) jumped to the wrong conclusion. For as we all know, the church is true no matter what. There is nothing that could prove it false.