New to the website

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
Nlloydj
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Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:39 pm

New to the website

Post by Nlloydj » Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:21 am

Hello, I am in the middle of a faith transition, as an active member, convert to the church, who has never questioned any of the doctrines, policies and history of the church until about a month ago, when one of my daughters announced that she was leaving the church because of its stance on gay marriage, women not being allowed the priesthood, the history against blacks receiving the priesthood and a whole bunch of problems that she found online with the book of Mormon and Joseph Smith. I’m trying to support and accept her, and I have delved into the issues myself and now I’m feeling less enthusiastic about the church, though wholeheartedly still faithful to Christ and believing in the church of its core doctrines of the gospel. I’m just looking for a community that might help me feel supported within the church. My wife and I do not want to leave, but we don’t see the church the same way that we used to. Can anyone relate? Wondering how many members of our church might have gone through this Faith transition and decided not to leave it? Hopefully there are many of us!

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MoPag
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Re: New to the website

Post by MoPag » Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:58 am

Welcome to our ward family! Faith journeys can be a struggle. We are glad you found us. :D
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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Red Ryder
Posts: 3000
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: New to the website

Post by Red Ryder » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:36 am

Welcome!

NOM has long been a soft landing spot for people just like you. We’ve all been there and understand in detail the emotional turmoil you are going through. To be honest it’s a rough emotional journey filled with angst, anger, helplessness, and hopeless feelings of betrayal. However it’s also a journey filled with love, support, humor, and personal growth.

The best advice we have to offer is this:

Go slow
You are not alone
You get to choose how to think and feel.
If you like parts of Mormonism, keep them.
If you don’t like parts, toss them out.
You decide for yourself what to believe.
Find spirituality that fits you and your family.
Learn to laugh at yourself. I believed that?? Ha
Everything good in the church isn’t unique.
Everything unique in the church isn’t (necessarily) good. ie. Polygamy, etc

As you go through this journey, realize that it takes time. You are in no hurry. However, as you continue to question and learn things, take time to substantiate your mental health and focus on the relationships that matter to you the most.

If you do find your self distancing from the church, find healthy things to replace that time and build new foundations. Hobbies, volunteering, gardening, whatever. Your identity is more than the church.

Second, if you are along this journey with a spouse, be the best ramen husband you can be. Walk along equally together as you learn and study. Everyone is different but working through this together with your spouse will be helpful. Just know that what bothers you, might not bother her, and vice versa. There is no one size fits all faith crisis.

I think you will find some of the most thoughtful caring people here who have all been in your shoes before. Please excuse our insensitivities and loud laughter. We are somewhat irreverent here. :lol: :lol: :lol:

PS. Mopag is our NOM ward Bishop. She does the best GC play by play commentary.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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alas
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Re: New to the website

Post by alas » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:04 am

You have found the right place. NOM was started for exactly people like you, who have found problems with the church but either don’t want leave or have a spouse still in and can’t leave. Although in the last few years we are drifting more toward leaving because staying as a doubter is getting more difficult. It is a good place to vent when your Mormon loved ones or ward members drive you to distraction with narrow world views, negative stereotypes of people who question or leave, or leader worship, or whatever bugs you.

So, welcome.

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2bizE
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:33 pm

Re: New to the website

Post by 2bizE » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:17 pm

Welcome. You will fit in well with our NOM family. Yes, we can relate. We have all been in or are currently in your same situation. We have walked in your shoes, so lay back, put your feet up, and feel welcome in our community...
~2bizE

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Hagoth
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Re: New to the website

Post by Hagoth » Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:41 pm

Welcome to NOM! There are some really good people here. It is fascinating to find yourself in a society where everyone has devoutly believed in a set of stories that they later discovered to be untrue. It's something that you can only understand if you have been hurled through that portal, which is simultaneously terrifying and exhilarating, but always gutwrenching. Some of us have remained Christian, some have become Atheists, and a lot are just giddy to find themselves on a spiritual journey that need not have a particular destination. I hope we may be of some service to you.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Palerider
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Re: New to the website

Post by Palerider » Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:01 pm

Nlloydj wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:21 am
I’m feeling less enthusiastic about the church, though wholeheartedly still faithful to Christ and believing in the church of its core doctrines of the gospel. I’m just looking for a community that might help me feel supported within the church. My wife and I do not want to leave, but we don’t see the church the same way that we used to. Can anyone relate? Wondering how many members of our church might have gone through this Faith transition and decided not to leave it? Hopefully there are many of us!
Welcome and glad you're here. To one degree or another all of us relate to what you are going through. It's tough. Much of the advice already given I would concur with.

For it's side the LDS faith has much to offer. And in my opinion, those good things grow out of the parts of the Gospel of Christ that the church has embraced. They're actually the things/experiences that tug at our heartstrings and make us want more.

The problems which your daughter has so aptly observed are the false doctrines that have been grafted into the church by Joseph Smith and his successors. The correct analog for the church is actually a tree that has had wild branches grafted in. Some branches bring forth good fruit and some bring forth wild or bad fruit.

As long as the church maintains it's current leadership hierarchy (which is critical to it's purpose) it will be extremely difficult to help the organization clean/rid itself of its offensive doctrines. Church leadership isn't honestly interested in truth. They are only interested in maintaining the status quo. Like a very large, fat, sleeping swine it takes a lot of prodding from a lot of members to get even a small amount of movement. And then it must appear as if it originates from leadership via revelation.

It's my belief that you and your wife (who are very lucky to be on the same page) will over time, find it more and more difficult to remain active in the church as the heretofore unseen discrepancies become more and more obvious.

To quote Thomas Jefferson:

"The religion-builders have so distorted and deformed the doctrines of Jesus, so muffled them in mysticisms, fancies and falsehoods, have caricatured them into forms so monstrous and inconceivable, as to shock reasonable thinkers..."

Those "religion-builders" (Joseph Smith) were still at it during Jefferson's time....

But, again in my opinion, you are right to hold to the pure doctrines of Christ as found in the New Testament. There may be some minor errors there but there is more than sufficient guidance and information to find salvation. Even Jefferson as a "deist" had great respect for the teachings of Christ.

Don't allow any man (or woman) to attempt to be a mediator between you and God. As the scriptures say, "There is only one mediator between God and man and that is Jesus Christ."

Follow your reason and your heart honestly and you'll do fine.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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PalmSprings
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Re: New to the website

Post by PalmSprings » Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:02 pm

Welcome Nlloydj, like others have already said, I can also sympathize with what you are going through at the moment.
Red Ryder wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:36 am
As you go through this journey, realize that it takes time. You are in no hurry. However, as you continue to question and learn things, take time to substantiate your mental health and focus on the relationships that matter to you the most.

If you do find your self distancing from the church, find healthy things to replace that time and build new foundations. Hobbies, volunteering, gardening, whatever. Your identity is more than the church.
This is great advice! Leaving the church can be a difficult journey as you won't find much if any support from friends and acquaintances you may have made at church. So if you do decide to head that direction to echo what Red Ryder said, it's important to take care of yourself and be aware of how it's affecting your loved ones.

Also based on personal experience, you may want to make a strategic plan to make the transition as smooth as possible. Don't let church leaders or other members decide how your church experience fits into your life. You will have the Bishop and quorum leaders try to throw roadblocks in your way. Taking control of how you fit into the church is perhaps the #1 thing you can do to lower the stress. For me I didn't want to give church leaders the satisfaction, so I never went back, not telling anyone beforehand. Others prefer to go out in a blaze of glory by being ex-communicated. And still others continue to attend to support loved ones.

In any case whatever you decide, know that you aren't the first nor the last that has gone through the experience.

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wtfluff
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Location: Worshiping Gravity / Pulling Taffy

Re: New to the website

Post by wtfluff » Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:06 pm

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Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

Nlloydj
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:39 pm

Re: New to the website

Post by Nlloydj » Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:44 pm

Thank you everyone for your kind words and welcoming hearts. I really appreciate it a lot. I’m excited to read more about what new order Mormonism is all about and integrate those tenants into my life. My wife and I are very hopeful that this new life is going to be wonderful for our family. Peace and love to you all!

Nlloydj
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:39 pm

Re: New to the website

Post by Nlloydj » Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:53 pm

I Heard that you consider yourself to be part of a ward together. Can you tell me more about that? Do you ever meet by zoom? It would be really fun to have a testimony meeting with you all, so we could get to know each other.

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Corsair
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:58 am
Location: Phoenix

Re: New to the website

Post by Corsair » Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:24 pm

Nlloydj wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:53 pm
I Heard that you consider yourself to be part of a ward together. Can you tell me more about that? Do you ever meet by zoom? It would be really fun to have a testimony meeting with you all, so we could get to know each other.
The idea of us being a "ward" is a bit overstated. It's mostly that the LDS paradigms are easy to use when talking to other people from LDS culture. But we certainly empathize with how you want to hear testimonies and connect with others. I can reccommend Mormon Spectrum as one place that advertises local meetups for people all along the LDS believing and unbelieving spectrum. If you are anywhere near the Phoenix area I can certainly recommend some slacker apostates who will go out to lunch with you.

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alas
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Re: New to the website

Post by alas » Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:07 pm

Nlloydj wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:53 pm
I Heard that you consider yourself to be part of a ward together. Can you tell me more about that? Do you ever meet by zoom? It would be really fun to have a testimony meeting with you all, so we could get to know each other.
Check the forum for gatherings and if nothing fits, set something up. We have had telephone conference calls, so zoom wouldn’t be impossible. Just set up a get together in your area or arrange a zoom call.

We are kind of a small group as far as actual active members go, so we don’t have a lot of people outside of the Jello belt population centers. For example, my primary residence is podunk, Idaho, and the nearest any kind of get together would be Logan UT where there are some post Mormon groups that I don’t care to socialize with because they don’t just question the truthfulness of the church, they actively hate it and like to mock things that my husband stills considers sacred, so it is just not worth the hours drive through Logan Canyon to be disgusted by their open hatred of all things Mormon. And the nearest get togethers from my winter residence (snow bird here) is also about an hour away to Los Vegas. My husband is still an active believing member, so he just isn’t happy with me associating with Mormon haters, and I don’t enjoy their anger either. But he did go to NOM gatherings with me before we became snowbirds and likes NOMs.

It really does help to find some people in real life that you can talk to.

Cnsl1
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:27 pm

Re: New to the website

Post by Cnsl1 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:30 pm

I've had one foot in the church for about the last 8 years. I've had callings, I've turned down callings. I think that by now, most of my ward community understands that I'm a little different than your standard TBM. I'm nice, kind to others, but I don't bear my testimony, I don't sign up for tithing settlement, I don't volunteer to clean the church or feed the missionaries.

When I've been asked to talk in church, I'll never say I know it's true, but I'll say something like, some things are worth believing in and this or that is what I choose to believe right now.

My family chooses to stay because of the community. The ward family. Five adult kids and one teen at home. The teen would probably prefer not going but is amenable to a relaxed activity level. No interest in mission. Of the 4 adults, two are pretty much in the same place, two are pretty much completely inactive, but still like to attend at times. I don't think anyone believes fully or drinks all the Kool aid anymore.

The whole process is rough, but it was easier for me than for my wife. She grew up in a much more traditional Mormon home where church was everything and activity and box checking (baptism, mission, temple marriage) was valued, expected, and celebrated. She's the only one of her many siblings who has one foot out of the "boat". I think she experiences a lot of stress and consternation over the cog dis and often moves back and forth between wanting to be fully in, and being ready to dump it completely.

I'm also mostly a lurker here. I read much more then I post. I do like this forum, however, and gain insight and strength from you all.

Cnsl1
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:27 pm

Re: New to the website

Post by Cnsl1 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:30 pm

I've had one foot in the church for about the last 8 years. I've had callings, I've turned down callings. I think that by now, most of my ward community understands that I'm a little different than your standard TBM. I'm nice, kind to others, but I don't bear my testimony, I don't sign up for tithing settlement, I don't volunteer to clean the church or feed the missionaries.

When I've been asked to talk in church, I'll never say I know it's true, but I'll say something like, some things are worth believing in and this or that is what I choose to believe right now.

My family chooses to stay because of the community. The ward family. Five adult kids and one teen at home. The teen would probably prefer not going but is amenable to a relaxed activity level. No interest in mission. Of the 4 adults, two are pretty much in the same place, two are pretty much completely inactive, but still like to attend at times. I don't think anyone believes fully or drinks all the Kool aid anymore.

The whole process is rough, but it was easier for me than for my wife. She grew up in a much more traditional Mormon home where church was everything and activity and box checking (baptism, mission, temple marriage) was valued, expected, and celebrated. She's the only one of her many siblings who has one foot out of the "boat". I think she experiences a lot of stress and consternation over the cog dis and often moves back and forth between wanting to be fully in, and being ready to dump it completely.

I'm also mostly a lurker here. I read much more then I post. I do like this forum, however, and gain insight and strength from you all.

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moksha
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Re: New to the website

Post by moksha » Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:20 pm

Nlloydj wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:44 pm
I’m excited to read more about what new order Mormonism is all about ...
New Order Mormonism is a strange term. Cafeteria Mormonism, Custom Tailored Mormonism, or even Thinking Mormonism might be more descriptive and easier to use in a conversation.

Best Wishes.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Wonderment
Posts: 348
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:38 pm

Re: New to the website

Post by Wonderment » Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:46 pm

Welcome to NOM ! We sometimes kiddingly refer to ourselves as "a ward", because the atmosphere here has the feeling of being among companions who often have past or present experiences that can be shared with understanding and empathy. It's a really nice group of people, and I think you'll find a lot of support and good listeners. :) - Wndr.

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MoPag
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:05 pm

Re: New to the website

Post by MoPag » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:51 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:36 am

PS. Mopag is our NOM ward Bishop. She does the best GC play by play commentary.
Aww! Thanks!. I'd be here more often but some a-hole in the IT department blocked all forum sites on our work computers during our latest security update. :evil:
Nlloydj wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:44 pm
Thank you everyone for your kind words and welcoming hearts. I really appreciate it a lot. I’m excited to read more about what new order Mormonism is all about and integrate those tenants into my life. My wife and I are very hopeful that this new life is going to be wonderful for our family. Peace and love to you all!
The great thing about NOM is that we all have our own unique beliefs and tenants. Even though we all believe different things, we still love and support each other.

Mormonism gives you lists of what to believe and what you need to do to be a good person. Now its time for YOU to work out what you believe and how you should live your life. It can be overwhelming. But we are here to help you work through it. :)
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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Hermey
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:32 pm

Re: New to the website

Post by Hermey » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:42 am

Nlloydj wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:53 pm
I Heard that you consider yourself to be part of a ward together. Can you tell me more about that? Do you ever meet by zoom? It would be really fun to have a testimony meeting with you all, so we could get to know each other.
There are a few of us that try and do that. Here's the info....

Each Sunday from 10:00 a.m. to Noon (MST) you will find some of us here. It's essentially an online version of St. Judas the Traitor Pandemic 1st Ward meetup. The ward boundaries have been changed and we have a new Bishop (as I have been given Emeritus status)....'Draperville' from the old NOM 1.0 days.

Everyone is welcome. No RSVP needed.

Sometimes it's a big group, sometimes it's small. So, come on out and join us--we'll steal a bagel, kick a few puppies, and join in loud laughter at the expense of the Lard's Anointed!!

It is a casual meetup. No pressure, no expectation. Participate as much or little as you are comfortable with. In other words, it's a safe space. Those who stop in run the gamut in age range and background. It changes from week to week and so do the conversations. Just depends on what people are needing or dealing with.

It's better than a poke in the eye.

Seriously, we've all gotten the t-shirt, so we understand where you are coming from. Sometimes being able to meet with other ex-mos via Zoom is a life-saver. Come on out and tell us your story.


Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/8746478165?pw ... IzZGcyUT09

Meeting ID: 874 647 8165
Passcode: 4h3Vtz

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Fletch
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Re: New to the website

Post by Fletch » Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:45 am

This is a great place with some fun people. I love the humor. I’m mostly a lurker. However, when I read your post it brought me back to when I started questioning things. I feel for anyone going through this whole transition thing. The folks on here know what you are going through. It’s seems no one here has an agenda. Everyone seems to just say what they think, which is great. Some things I agree with some I don’t. But I respect everyone here and appreciate their time and efforts to respond and give their insights to new NOM’s like you. Hang in there my friend. I look forward to reading your posts.

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