Letters to the Slackers

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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græy
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Letters to the Slackers

Post by græy » Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:33 am

I skipped ward council meetings yesterday and went camping instead. DW still made sure to schedule a swift return home on time for virtual sacrament meeting. But either way, I still had at least 2 hours less headache than most Sundays.

I was only informed later on that our ward has officially decided they (hopefully the bishopric because I want nothing to do with it) will compile a list of names of people who are actively attending sacrament meeting, either in-person or virtually, then cross-check that list against the rest of the ward directory to generate a list of those have realized the church is unnecessa... I mean, haven't yet come back. They are then going to personally call or send letters to each and every person who isn't attending.

Even in the best of times, our ward had the typical 30% activity rate, so I'm assuming they mean those specific families who were previously coming to church, but don't seem to be attending anymore. Otherwise, that is hundreds of phone calls and letters to mail out.

Why can't we just let adults be adults and run their own lives? :?: If they want to come to church, they know where we are. If we provide any amount of real meaning or utility then they'll want to come. On the other hand, if they've decided they're just as well off without hours upon hours of weekly meetings and mind-numbing tasks then we're just going to annoy them by informing them they're falling on the wrong side of the wheat/chaff line. :roll:
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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Red Ryder
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Re: Letters to the Slackers

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:22 am

Add me to your list.
R. Red Ryder with a “Y“

Seriously, who has time to do this and how can they tell if someone is “attending” virtually?

Our ward is back in person. I have no idea how many attend in person because I haven’t been. I know the wife watches online and it’s been meaningful to her. I hope it continues for her sake since she finds spiritual enjoyment watching it. I just get mad when they don’t wipe the microphone and podium after. :lol:

Honestly I can say I’ve enjoyed resting from my labors on the seventh day! The burden of proof lies in the church to convince me how my life would be better by attending again. Perhaps President Nelson might do that on Friday?

Greay - you’re one week into starting a new pattern for your family. What’s planned for next weekend? See where I’m going with this?
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Palerider
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Re: Letters to the Slackers

Post by Palerider » Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:29 am

Yep....this is the "We're going to aggravate you into full activity" method Mormons use to offload their guilt about missionary work.

It reminds me of the pre-pandemic time our ward decided they were going to contact EVERY member on the ward roster. Even the ones who had requested "no contact" just to make sure they still didn't want any contact..... :roll:

What's wrong with this picture....😐
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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El Chihuahua Chingón
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Re: Letters to the Slackers

Post by El Chihuahua Chingón » Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:39 am

As a teenager in the YM program and as a missionary I always wondered why some people were so hostile towards those who would reach out to them despite being on a "do not contact" list.

Now I relate to these hostile individuals so much, it's quite funny :lol: Mormons are a persistent bunch!

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2bizE
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Re: Letters to the Slackers

Post by 2bizE » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:59 am

If two years ago, the option of going from 3 hours in person church to 1 hour at home zoom church, most of us would have jumped at the option....we have now moved from 1 hour zoom church to no church....I’m working on milking this for all I can.
~2bizE

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græy
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Re: Letters to the Slackers

Post by græy » Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:00 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:22 am
Seriously, who has time to do this and how can they tell if someone is “attending” virtually?

Our ward is back in person. I have no idea how many attend in person because I haven’t been. I know the wife watches online and it’s been meaningful to her. I hope it continues for her sake since she finds spiritual enjoyment watching it. I just get mad when they don’t wipe the microphone and podium after. :lol:
The church's website prompts you for your name when you open the meeting broadcast. I assume they just use that name vs. the directory. Although, I don't think there is anything preventing you from using a fake name, and I imagine that would make it hard to cross-reference against the master list. I may experiment next week and invite my buddy James Earl Jones to sit in. ;)
Honestly I can say I’ve enjoyed resting from my labors on the seventh day! The burden of proof lies in the church to convince me how my life would be better by attending again. Perhaps President Nelson might do that on Friday?
Hope springs eternal.
Greay - you’re one week into starting a new pattern for your family. What’s planned for next weekend? See where I’m going with this?
I gotcha. We actually took an extended weekend once in Oct too. That worked well enough we decided to do it again this month. Both times DW insisted we be back in time to stream sac. meeting. But I've tossed out the idea of getting a travel trailer we could take out on more frequent extended weekends. She seemed excited about that, so the dream is very much alive!
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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græy
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Re: Letters to the Slackers

Post by græy » Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:07 pm

2bizE wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:59 am
If two years ago, the option of going from 3 hours in person church to 1 hour at home zoom church, most of us would have jumped at the option....we have now moved from 1 hour zoom church to no church....I’m working on milking this for all I can.
Lucky!!!11!!

A lot of Sundays are far busier for us now. While in bishopric, Sundays were often 7+ hour ordeals for me, even after the 2 hour block started. DW was on her own that whole time with kids. As EQP a normal Sunday was still 4+ hours.

Things were at their best a few months ago when Sunday consisted of virtual ward council, a quick home sacrament meeting (everyone fully dressed for church), and a 15 minute sharing time style lesson for the kids.

Now, I have virtual ward council, 1 hour sacrament, 1 hour virtual gospel doctrine or EQ, 1 hour of herding primary kids around a computer screen for virtual primary, followed by phone calls for ministering interviews. That's right, I'm basically back to the three hour block at best.

At this point DW wants to go back to church because that was far easier than convincing kids to get dressed up just to sit in front of a screen. Even our 5 yr old asked if he had to wear pants when they can only see his face.

Why do we insist on torturing ourselves!?
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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Hagoth
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Re: Letters to the Slackers

Post by Hagoth » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:28 pm

græy wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:07 pm
ow, I have virtual ward council, 1 hour sacrament, 1 hour virtual gospel doctrine or EQ, 1 hour of herding primary kids around a computer screen for virtual primary, followed by phone calls for ministering interviews. That's right, I'm basically back to the three hour block at best.
Yikes.

My Zoom attention span is about 30 minutes on a good day. Mrs. Hagoth attends online church meetings but feels no strong pressure to do so (she'll sleep in if she feels like it) and has no expectation for me. She switches off the camera and listens while doing other stuff. Sometimes I sit in for a while in my sweat pants and t-shirt, often with coffee in hand. I am happy to bless the sacrament for her but we both keep forgetting. Maybe this week.

This is a very workable church situation!
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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mufflerman
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Re: Letters to the Slackers

Post by mufflerman » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:58 pm

The church's website prompts you for your name when you open the meeting broadcast. I assume they just use that name vs. the directory. Although, I don't think there is anything preventing you from using a fake name, and I imagine that would make it hard to cross-reference against the master list. I may experiment next week and invite my buddy James Earl Jones to sit in. ;)
So far we've used our rabbit's name as our Zoom name. I really want to use the name: Jesus H Christ... but am still working up to that :D

Reuben
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Re: Letters to the Slackers

Post by Reuben » Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:11 pm

mufflerman wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:58 pm
The church's website prompts you for your name when you open the meeting broadcast. I assume they just use that name vs. the directory. Although, I don't think there is anything preventing you from using a fake name, and I imagine that would make it hard to cross-reference against the master list. I may experiment next week and invite my buddy James Earl Jones to sit in. ;)
So far we've used our rabbit's name as our Zoom name. I really want to use the name: Jesus H Christ... but am still working up to that :D
Jesus H. Martinez has the advantage of plausible deniability.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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wtfluff
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Re: Letters to the Slackers

Post by wtfluff » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:57 pm

Reuben wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:11 pm
mufflerman wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:58 pm
So far we've used our rabbit's name as our Zoom name. I really want to use the name: Jesus H Christ... but am still working up to that :D
Jesus H. Martinez has the advantage of plausible deniability.
Where in the H-E-Double-Hockey-Sticks are the Canadians when someone needs to figure out the correct last name of Zoom Jesus???
JebusMurphy. .jpg
JebusMurphy. .jpg (60.65 KiB) Viewed 1027 times
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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hmb
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Re: Letters to the Slackers

Post by hmb » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:38 am

græy wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:07 pm

Why do we insist on torturing ourselves!?
Because OBEDIENCE. When TBMs are obedient to torturous requirements, they feel good/validated. Check it of the list. I remember it as a short lived "feel good," so you have to obey again and again. It doesn't take long for the guilt to begin snowballing from one 'check off the list' to another. I feel bad for people in your circumstance; playing pretend for TBMs that you live with.

Blashyrkh
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Re: Letters to the Slackers

Post by Blashyrkh » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:09 pm

My wife has asked me to participate in the online sacrament meetings and out of my deep love for her I have complied. By complying I mean I lay in bed playing on my phone while church goes on in the background. At least until today. I turned of the rerun of "the Office," and sat there listening until the wife's phone cut out. She quickly reestablished comms and church was back on. Then the phone cut out again. Once again comms were established and church resumed. Third time was the charm as 15 minutes into sacrament her phone cut out once more. "This is stupid," was my wife's only comment as she reached for the TV remote in order to resume our normal Sunday worship in of all things Dunder-Mifflin. I have never been more proud of her.

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IT_Veteran
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Re: Letters to the Slackers

Post by IT_Veteran » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:41 am

This reminds me of when Tommy Monson came up with ‘the rescue’. I was a counselor in the EQP at the time and remember the bishop directing us to assign *every* family in the ward a home teacher. That meant 18-20 families assigned per home teaching companionship. I moved out about the same time, but vaguely remember my dad complaining about it.

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slavereeno
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Re: Letters to the Slackers

Post by slavereeno » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:51 pm

I have gotten far to cavalier about Sunday "worship." I have basically ghosted the church, and I think its gotten us noticed. Damn.

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Not Buying It
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Re: Letters to the Slackers

Post by Not Buying It » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:32 am

græy wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:33 am
Why can't we just let adults be adults and run their own lives? :?: If they want to come to church, they know where we are. If we provide any amount of real meaning or utility then they'll want to come. On the other hand, if they've decided they're just as well off without hours upon hours of weekly meetings and mind-numbing tasks then we're just going to annoy them by informing them they're falling on the wrong side of the wheat/chaff line. :roll:
Bob Dylan gave the best answer to your question:
While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society’s pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he’s in

But keep in mind, Bob Dylan also gave us the best response to that, words I live by:
A question in your nerves is lit
Yet you know there is no answer fit
To satisfy, insure you not to quit
To keep it in your mind and not forget
That it is not he or she or them or it
That you belong to
They don’t own you - it is not “he or she or them or it that you belong to”.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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2bizE
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Re: Letters to the Slackers

Post by 2bizE » Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:22 pm

I don’t think this is off topic, but what I’m about to say or question seems to be at the heart of the discussion. Where or when did religion decide it was okay to take over nearly every aspect of our lives? I don’t ever remember the March of Dimes calling me into and end-of-year interview to verify that I have given them every dime that was due.
I don’t recall the Red Cross sitting me down and saying, “It looks like you have only donated blood 4 times this year. That’s not acceptable. You need to give everything you possibly can”.
I am so turned off by Tithing settlement, cleaning toilets, feeding missionaries, shoveling snow off sidewalks, visiting families, PPIs, going to church weekly, and every other expectation that my mind has shut down. I’ve blown a gasket. I have leaky O rings. I can’t take it anymore, thus I am now a burned over slacker. And I’m fine with that.
~2bizE

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alas
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Re: Letters to the Slackers

Post by alas » Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:59 pm

2bizE wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:22 pm
I don’t think this is off topic, but what I’m about to say or question seems to be at the heart of the discussion. Where or when did religion decide it was okay to take over nearly every aspect of our lives? I don’t ever remember the March of Dimes calling me into and end-of-year interview to verify that I have given them every dime that was due.
I don’t recall the Red Cross sitting me down and saying, “It looks like you have only donated blood 4 times this year. That’s not acceptable. You need to give everything you possibly can”.
I am so turned off by Tithing settlement, cleaning toilets, feeding missionaries, shoveling snow off sidewalks, visiting families, PPIs, going to church weekly, and every other expectation that my mind has shut down. I’ve blown a gasket. I have leaky O rings. I can’t take it anymore, thus I am now a burned over slacker. And I’m fine with that.
Joseph Smith said that a religion that doesn’t require the sacrifice of all things never had the power to change men’s souls or something stupid like that. And there is a principle of psychology that when you give up something, the thing you gave it up for becomes more meaningful to you. Even my Catholic boss when I worked at Catholic Family Services used it by charging a small fee, even when the family was quite poor because he told me that when they make a small sacrifice then they take the counseling much more seriously. They are less likely to skip or forget about appointments. They are more likely to work at home on assignments. They just take it more seriously, so you are actually increasing their commitment to the counseling by charging them a dollar or so a session instead of free. We really could do the counseling for free, as the church supported the agency in however it wanted to work with the clients and a dollar a week made zero difference to the agency.

So, the church uses this principle and actually abuses it, because it does have a breaking point. If the sacrifice is too great and the payoff too small, it backfires and no longer holds people, but drives them away. As the church has lost the community aspect that it had back in the 50-70s, then a lot of sacrifice was good because there was a big payoff. Now, that same amount of sacrifice has people leaving as the sacrifice is just too great. And the church can’t see that they are no longer meeting people’s needs.

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