April Conference and the Elephant in the Chapel

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Cnsl1
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Re: April Conference and the Elephant in the Chapel

Post by Cnsl1 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:56 am

I think it can be reasonably argued that we don't really have church leaders, but rather church managers.

Pres Nelson, for as many changes as he's implemented, still comes across as a guy who's carrying out his own agenda for his own glory, and maybe it's that his adoring wife can't stop blathering on about how great he is that greatly contributes to this overall visage of a old man frenetically building his own church statue, blissfully unaware of what's going on in the world around him.

I know they're aware of things, certainly. They're not idiots. But they sure don't seem really understanding of the plight of those outside this narrow TBM bubble. They don't appear to lead with vision, drawing on their incredible resources to make the church actually helpful, not to mention palatable, to all of God's children.

So I think all your predictions are accurate. I suspect we'll get a healthy dose of love your neighbor, which is good stuff, don't get me wrong, but a general avoidance of the elephants and rhinos and hippos in the room.

I think the church caters to a narrowing group of followers, and managed by mostly old white men whose formative years were in 1950s Utah. The church has already lost the traditional narrative. Most people with half a brain and some computing skills have discovered that the traditional narrative cannot be correct. We are in the age of global information and quick fact checking. Sure, there are apologists desperately trying to validate the script, but it's a losing battle, and often they cause more harm to the church than good--they certainly did for me. Even the "neo-apologists" with their hip and schtick come across to most young folks as mostly dumbasses because they're not addressing stuff that population cares about.

For lack of a better moniker, the educated left has been trickling out of the church for quite some time.. and trickle probably isn't the right word either.. streaming is probably more apt. But now, I'm completely amazed to see what this staunch, previously dyed in the wool, conservative right has been saying. This demi-god Trump dude has whipped this population into a fervor that trumps the prophet. That's some heavy duty whipping! And I'm not just talking about the fringe Qanon sort. I'm talking about my neighbors who have loved and served and been the rock solid members the church has built upon all these years. When I find myself defending Nelson to these people, something really weird is happening in Zion.

So.. given this current state of affairs.. and projecting the current trajectory.. if the church does not do something pretty drastic with outside the box leading, I think TCOJCOLDS will become a minor also ran in the Christian race. Rich? Oh hell yeah.. but ineffectual cuz we're sitting on our massive pile of gold waiting for Jesus to come back.

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Hagoth
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Re: April Conference and the Elephant in the Chapel

Post by Hagoth » Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:22 pm

Cnsl1 wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:56 am
When I find myself defending Nelson to these people, something really weird is happening in Zion.
I remember when the Catholic church was The Great And Abominable. Now they are the LDS church's allies in "religious freedom." It is quite ironic when the apostates feel a sense of alliance with the church in the face of rabid believers.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

Cnsl1
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:27 pm

Re: April Conference and the Elephant in the Chapel

Post by Cnsl1 » Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:32 am

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:22 pm
Cnsl1 wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:56 am
When I find myself defending Nelson to these people, something really weird is happening in Zion.
I remember when the Catholic church was The Great And Abominable. Now they are the LDS church's allies in "religious freedom." It is quite ironic when the apostates feel a sense of alliance with the church in the face of rabid believers.

Yep, those darn Catholics getting soft on gay marriage, and the Mormon leaders all getting vaccinated and wearing masks. Where does a God fearing, gun toting, gay bashing, red blooded, scripture thumping, white American turn for religion?!

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LSOF
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Re: April Conference and the Elephant in the Chapel

Post by LSOF » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:38 pm

There's always the Southern Baptist Convention or Wahhabism.
"I appreciate your flesh needs to martyr me." Parture

"There is no contradiction between faith and science --- true science." Dr Zaius

Pastor, Lunar Society of Friends; CEO, Faithful Origins and Ontology League

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deacon blues
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Re: April Conference and the Elephant in the Chapel

Post by deacon blues » Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:00 pm

This reminds me that in the days of the Civil War the Churches divided as well as the States. they had Southern Baptists and Southern Methodists breaking off from their northern counterparts. Lately when I hear people talk about our Country becoming increasingly divided, I'm wondering: Could the Main LDS Church go through a split like that? Has the thought ever crossed President Nelson's mind? :o Speaking of Elephants in the chapel, I can picture a Church of Jesus Christ or Republican Saints :evil: vs. a Church of Jesus Christ of Democrat Saints :P . No I'm not smoking weed. :mrgreen: 8-)
God is Love. God is Truth

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alas
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Re: April Conference and the Elephant in the Chapel

Post by alas » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:21 am

deacon blues wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:00 pm
This reminds me that in the days of the Civil War the Churches divided as well as the States. they had Southern Baptists and Southern Methodists breaking off from their northern counterparts. Lately when I hear people talk about our Country becoming increasingly divided, I'm wondering: Could the Main LDS Church go through a split like that? Has the thought ever crossed President Nelson's mind? :o Speaking of Elephants in the chapel, I can picture a Church of Jesus Christ or Republican Saints :evil: vs. a Church of Jesus Christ of Democrat Saints :P . No I'm not smoking weed. :mrgreen: 8-)
We’ll see what happens when Texas or Alaska secedes from the union. Still, the COJCOD would be small, although once things start splitting, there would be the reorganized COJCOD which would be the ones who are not only progressive but almost out.

Actually, the next civil war would be difficult because there is not a neat line that can be drawn between the crazies and the sanes, like could be drawn between the slave states and free states. The crazies are everywhere, just in greater numbers in some areas. And although the evangelicals and Mormons both support trump, it is a difference of denomination, not a difference is geographic area. The Trump supporting churches are not teaching different things in one location than another like the Southern Baptists taught that God approves of slavery, says so in the Bible. While the northern Baptists taught that God loves all his children and that Slavery is morally wrong, and used more of a theology of love than quoting directly from the Bible. So, I doubt it could split, more likely it will just bleed from both ends.

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