To move to UT, or not to move to UT

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Arcturus
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To move to UT, or not to move to UT

Post by Arcturus » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:02 pm

It's been a while since I've posted here, since I've successfully disconnected from Mormonism as the wise RedRyder once said I would...

Anyways. My DW and I moved from Utah Valley in 2015. I'm considering a faculty job at UVU that would objectively be a decent move, career wise. However, my DW is really concerned about the culture our girls would face (3 little girls to be exact, all under the age of 7). Additional info - we left the church early 2018. Haven't been back.

Have things changed significantly culture wise since 2015 in Utah Valley? I know many people are leaving the church, and maybe a lot of non-LDS are moving to UT. Probably a decent base of inactive folks too. Do you consider the environment of Utah Valley to be unhealthy for children of families who have left the church? Or is it so common these days that it's a pretty normal thing? Our only concern is our kids, as life for kids is hard enough - add in the challenge of having to deal with peers who are part of a high-demand religion...

I love and miss the outdoors of UT. So being close to that would be awesome and sharing that experience with our kids. We're in the midwest where there is very little outdoor rec opportunities. So a move to UT is tempting in that sense. There's also the fact that the UT economy is booming - maybe something good that has come from the church (population growth, entrepreneurial population, etc.).

Would love to get some collective insight from the wisdom that is NOM.
“How valuable is a faith that is dependent on the maintenance of ignorance? If faith can only thrive in the absence of the knowledge of its origins, history, and competing theological concepts, then what is it we really have to hold on to?”
D Brisbin

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moksha
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Re: To move to UT, or not to move to UT

Post by moksha » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:02 am

Would you consider a commute from Sandy or Draper to be too far? Utah County does have the highest percentage of LDS people in Utah. Utah Valley is 'Trump as the messiah' territory.

On a positive note, Utah has a fairly good education system for children and Utah Valley State University does have a pretty campus. The rumors that you can hear Brigham Young calling for his wives during a full moon have not been substantiated, but locals are still free to form their own opinion as long as they do not share it with others at Church.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Hagoth
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Re: To move to UT, or not to move to UT

Post by Hagoth » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:59 am

For what it's worth, I think the the doubter hating has toned down a bit over the past few years precisely because so many young people have left the church.

Take our bishop for example. He was such a letter-of-the-law, follow the prophet stick-in-the-mud that I was really concerned when he was called to be bishop. You hear stories about local leaders turning members against their non-believing spouses and I feared he could be one of those. But he somehow miraculously turned out to be a very kind, understanding and non-judgmental bishop.

I was perplexed until I learned what had caused the change. Two of his kids lost their testimonies and stood their ground against his calls to repentance until he eventually started to accept that there are reasons to leave the church other than the desire to sin. Now, rather than judgement, he has empathy for families with members who aren't all marching to the Zion drumbeat. I hope this is a growing trend.

I'm not saying that is typical, but I have seen multiple examples of it lately.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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RubinHighlander
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Re: To move to UT, or not to move to UT

Post by RubinHighlander » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:17 am

Like Hagoth, I've seen staunch TBM families soften with the loss of one or more kids that make an exit, especially if those kids are thriving and standup to their parents about their non-beliefs. My SIL and step daughter have this situation with their parents and things have lightened up over the years in terms of the TBM parents pressuring them to come back to the tribe.

I have friends in Pleasant Grove where it's about 90% plus TBMs; it's the burb where they went to church and made their exit; nice view of the Timp temple. After their exit there was a flood of notes, cookies, etc., probably assuming they were offended. But then about a year later their home became a haven for many still going to church but were struggling with it. Their kids thrived and socially have had no issues growing up there. It probably depends a lot on the parents. These friends are quite confident and strong without the church and didn't have a dependency on it socially. There are those few TBMs that are the zealots, probably an average of 10-20 families per ward, that will sit up on their Ramiumptoms and judge. But those are the families you want to avoid! Going to church only subjects your kids to the kids from those super-TBM families, who often create a miserable church and public school experience for more humble kids. This was our experience, raising kids TBM in upper middleclass mormon land.

I think, compared to when I was growing up, being a non-member in Utah is actually empowering, not being subjected to the rules of the LDS corporation. If you can put up with the church meddling in politics, it's a great state to live in with it's strong economy, lower cost of living, quality of life and outdoor recreation.
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams

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alas
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Re: To move to UT, or not to move to UT

Post by alas » Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:11 am

You don’t need to commute from as far as Sandy/Draper. There are new Subdivisions out west of Lehi, where my brother in law who just retired from UVU lives and other new areas that are about 40% LDS. A gazillion people moved into Utah from mostly California over the last 15 years as housing prices got unreasonable and they needed to move and just couldn’t afford to stay in California. Admittedly, a lot are LDS moving back to ?Zion? But California Mormons are not like Utah Mormons, and since Utah is one state with many more move ins than move outs, Utah has become a lot more diverse, especially in the new housing developments where people move into. The new subdivisions in many communities are more nonmember than member any more. So, don’t look in older sections of Orem/Provo/A.Fork, but find a subdivision under 10 years old, because it will be full of people who have moved to Utah fairly recently. Our subdivision in Layton was that way, and our new subdivision in Hurricane is that way, my SIL in Sandy has a neighborhood that way. My Sister’s new subdivision is that way and like I said, my BIL’s house in Lehi is within easy commuting distance and a new subdivision and chock full of people who have moved in from out of state.

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2bizE
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Re: To move to UT, or not to move to UT

Post by 2bizE » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:15 pm

Would a commute from Moab be too far? If you move to Utah, anywhere in Utah, you will have the Mormon culture. It is unavoidable. You may consider joining a polygamist sect for a while, and afterwards the Mormon culture will feel less oppressive.
Another option is just not to worry at all about the culture, and use the F word on occasion to scare off TBM Mormons.
~2bizE

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Red Ryder
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Re: To move to UT, or not to move to UT

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:30 pm

Go for it!

Housing prices may deter you more than Mormonism.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Corsair
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Re: To move to UT, or not to move to UT

Post by Corsair » Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:46 pm

As others have noted, the culture in Utah has been tempered quite a bit in recent years. It's hard to find families who have not been affected by apostasy in one way or another. It's no longer unthinkable and I suspect that most neighbors will be understanding and slightly crestfallen when they they understand your religious convictions. There are more meet up groups in Utah catering to the non-LDS crowd than you will find in most places. Utah is a beautiful area with appropriate weather for each season.

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wtfluff
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Re: To move to UT, or not to move to UT

Post by wtfluff » Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:33 pm

I wish there were some NOMmie who actually lived in Happy Valley™ who could chime in with some real-life experience because... I live close enough to that bubble, and and have seen/experienced/heard of enough bat-sh!t craziness, especially in the last year, that I would have absolutely no desire to move there.

That being said, I do know apostate-type folks who have moved/live in some of the more Westerly areas of UT county who don't seem to have issues. And as mentioned, there is a "high" population of apostate-type folks in Utah in general, so "There are dozens of us" to hang out with.

Getting kids involved in "extra-curricular" activities that are not "sponsored" by LD$-Inc. is always my suggestion to help overcome the oppressiveness of living in a Theocracy.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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