Sexism of exmormon men

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jfro18
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Re: Sexism of exmormon men

Post by jfro18 » Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:29 pm

I saw LHP's Facebook post on this right when it was getting started, and then later that night I saw it pop up and it had clearly begun to spiral into a wreck because of a few people.

So I guess seeing that context made getting what she was saying a bit easier to understand -- even when she was asking for stories from women there was at least one guy who decided to jump in and make it about him. Now that person does that with a lot of post/ex-Mormon podcasters/bloggers, so it wasn't shocking to see, but it just showed how it can detail quickly.

I can't imagine how much it sucks to be a female post-Mormon so I'm not even going to try to speak like I do, but I think one thing that leaving the church made me realize is that the idea of "patriarchy" is really unhealthy... especially seeing how it is done in my in-laws side as well as how even DW has been conditioned to think it's a good thing.

But like I said, I can't pretend to know what it's like which is partly why that facebook thread was so jarring for me to see.

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LSOF
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Re: Sexism of exmormon men

Post by LSOF » Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:02 pm

glass shelf wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:04 pm
LSOF wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:53 pm
What does FT mean?
Yes, FT is full-time. PT is part-time.

I think it's kind of interesting that was an unfamilar abbreviation to you because I assure you that it is commonly used in women's groups when discussing their jobs and life.
I don't spend much time in such groups. The first place my mind went is "Fourier Transform", which obviously makes no sense whatsoever in that context. :geek:
2bizE wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:43 pm
I don’t think I think I’ll of Lindsay. I’ve been a fan of her work. I just had a hard time reading this long document that seemed to be full of passive aggressiveness from her without clearly stating the problem. Maybe it is my man brain that had trouble. I would have preferred her simply stating that ExMormon men are still sexist because of this, this, this, and this. She instead just went on some meandering wandering ideas that left my mind bewildered.
For example, she indicated that even she doesn’t fully understand some LGBTQ+ issues because she hasn’t walked in their shoes. I didn’t pick up where men were being sexist over this. I personally don’t think I am sexist, but I view the world through a white, male, Mormon, United States viewpoint. My viewpoint is surely full of biases and I’m sure other people have different views, but I really try to be kind and understanding to people. How am I being sexist?
The semantics and tone of your initial post seemed to me to indicate contempt masking defensiveness, as men all too often evince when women criticize patriarchy. I'm sorry if I misunderstood your attitude; being autistic makes it more difficult for me to read people's moods unless they clearly state them, and a primarily-text medium like this only compounds it.
"I appreciate your flesh needs to martyr me." Parture

"There is no contradiction between faith and science --- true science." Dr Zaius

Pastor, Lunar Society of Friends; CEO, Faithful Origins and Ontology League

Thoughtful
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Re: Sexism of exmormon men

Post by Thoughtful » Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:31 pm

I normally love Lindsay.

I felt this post danced around the issue, to try not to trigger the fragile men while trying to get them to see, a bit, their privilege and how they think by leaving they are woke while they go on to harm and silence women. And she didn't go far enough to make it clear.

Alas gave a good summary.

Postmo misogyny is very alive and well, and comes in a variety of forms. You can take a man out of the church more easily than you can take the misogyny out of a man who was raised believing He. Is. (Baby). God.

It shows up (here too) in men talking over women, or around them. When women share their real experiences, men argue theoretical points around them.

Men (and some women) as exmo, but using their priesthood callings or lineage in the church as a reason they are more aware/enlightened to the issues, and interpret them best.

Men who are prominent life coaches but not certified clinicians reinterpreted and refraining women's experiences in the church.

Exmo men using their positions socially to exploit women out of money and/or humiliate or intimidate women with competing businesses.

And of course the mansplaining and the he-peating. The podcast interviews of men, about women's roles in the church, polygamy, activism, etc.

There's more, of course. If its never occurred to you, then you have some work to do, for sure. Its very hard to step out of a culture and also then be innocent of a cultural problem if you can't even see it existing in yourself or others around you.

annotatedbom
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Re: Sexism of exmormon men

Post by annotatedbom » Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:23 am

Wonderment wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:39 pm
Thank you for posting this link. She means: Just because people leave the church, it doesn't mean that they stop having thoughts or behaviors that are sexist or racist or prejudiced against other groups of people.
Leaving the church doesn't mean that people automatically lose their biased thinking against others. In fact, sometimes that behavior can worsen.
Thanks for this synopsis Wonderment! My emotional, spiritual exit from the Church was only the beginning of my eyes opening up to my place of privilege both previously in Mormon society and in society in general. I think (hope) that as a believer I wasn't hurting people because of my sexist views, but I was so blinded by my privilege that I didn't even see the sexism of the Church until I'd been out for at least a few weeks, and then after that it was a gradually deepening realization of that sexism for at least months. My perspectives about sexuality, gender, gender roles, race, poverty/wealth have all changed to varying extents because of my exit from the Church.

That probably makes it sound like I've got it all figured out (at least in my own mind), but I don't. I think the Church encouraged me to think I had it all figured out and to try to share that with others around me in order to convince them. I did that before joining the Church; I'm just saying that I think the Church encouraged it further because of its religious dogma and the expectation to preach it. I can see that I still rant about what I "know" a lot. My wife would probably tell you I'm a know-it-all. I need to be quite and listen more. Just one example of how I can still be an arse.

Wonderment
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Re: Sexism of exmormon men

Post by Wonderment » Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:33 pm

Thank you, and I think you're doing a great job of self-awareness. 8-) In my experience, once self-awareness occurs, about 80% of the issue is resolved. - Wndr.

Thoughtful
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Re: Sexism of exmormon men

Post by Thoughtful » Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:43 pm

This week at Mormon Enlightenment, a postmo man started a thread asking people to come up with a name for a group of middle aged Mormon women. Examples suggested included a "herd" and other terms referring to animals. Misogyny ensued. Feminists called them out. They are now confused why their good fun isn't funny.

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moksha
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Re: Sexism of exmormon men

Post by moksha » Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:39 am

Thoughtful wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:43 pm
This week at Mormon Enlightenment, a postmo man started a thread asking people to come up with a name for a group of middle aged Mormon women. Examples suggested included a "herd" and other terms referring to animals. Misogyny ensued. Feminists called them out. They are now confused why their good fun isn't funny.
If asked at Meridian Magazine, the answer might be "future Celestial Helpmeet".

https://www.ldsliving.com/The-True-Mean ... od/s/91103
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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