Registered at Target and Amazon...

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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Red Ryder
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Registered at Target and Amazon...

Post by Red Ryder » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:44 am

My DD is at the age where all of her high school friends have now gone on a mission, returned home, and are getting married. Many of them are a few months shy of 21 and have only known their perspective spouse for a few months.

Another wedding announcement came in the mail today. Seeing these young kids announcing their celestial marriage has triggered me. Not because I think they are too young. Or that they haven’t known each other long enough.

I think I’m triggered because my DD’s path is a few feet off the well treaded Mormon trail and I feel guilty. If I hadn’t traded my faith for a cup of coffee, R rated movies, and freedom to think and see the church as a made up religion,

My kids are half assed Mormons because of my apostasy. I haven’t exactly steered them out of the church but they do seem to be headed that way.

I realize my DD is at that age and this could have been her wedding announcements getting opened in today’s mail if only I had not mentally checked out of the church.

I guess deep down inside I’m morning this loss. Or the realization that our path is different. I’m happy they can think on their own. I feel guilty too. I guess this just shows how deep the brainwashing goes. Our whole life we’ve been taught to follow the gospel path. Success in life is tied to it.

Nostalgic Mormon guilt seems to have krept into my soul today.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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moksha
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Re: Registered at Target and Amazon...

Post by moksha » Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:14 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:44 am
I realize my DD is at that age and this could have been her wedding announcements getting opened in today’s mail if only I had not mentally checked out of the church.

I guess deep down inside I’m morning this loss. Or the realization that our path is different.
There are other ways of looking at this. If viewed from statistical binoculars, a delayed wedding announcement also means a divorce decree postponed for another day. If viewed from an evidentiary telescope it might lead you to the discovery that Kolob is made of green cheese. If viewed from a NOM kaleidoscope, everything looks groovy and you can pack up your second thought regrets.

Want something to really gnaw on you? You could have bought Microsoft stock at $21 a share back in 1986.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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wtfluff
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Re: Registered at Target and Amazon...

Post by wtfluff » Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:50 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:44 am
Nostalgic Mormon guilt seems to have krept into my soul today.
It's weird when that MORmON guilt pops up when you've been done with the COJCOL-d$-Inc. thinking for a while eh?

BAM! Where did that come from??? :oops:
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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Red Ryder
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Re: Registered at Target and Amazon...

Post by Red Ryder » Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:52 pm

moksha wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:14 am
If viewed from an evidentiary telescope it might lead you to the discovery that Kolob is made of green cheese. If viewed from a NOM kaleidoscope, everything looks groovy and you can pack up your second thought regrets.
Green cheese it is...

Thanks penguin.
wtfluff wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:50 am
It's weird when that MORmON guilt pops up when you've been done with the COJCOL-d$-Inc. thinking for a while eh?

BAM! Where did that come from??? :oops:
Indeed. Doesn’t happen to me a lot but every now and then. Mormon infectious disease has no known cure.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Palerider
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Re: Registered at Target and Amazon...

Post by Palerider » Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:16 pm

If you've taught your children to value work, honesty, integrity, to love truth, compassion and mercy, then you have done what every mature parent hopes to. Especially if those children have learned to value those attributes in other people as well.
If so your DD will choose a good mate at an appropriate time for her. And she will be happy.

Isn't that what all parents want for their children? That they can find someone to bear the burdens of life with and be happy?

No organized corporation can do that for a young person. Getting married according to a fabricated timetable won't guarantee anything. No surrounding culture will insure a strong marriage.

Don't beat yourself up over this.

Just value and continue to build the relationship you have with your DD and have faith in her abilities to sort things out.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

Reuben
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Re: Registered at Target and Amazon...

Post by Reuben » Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:27 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:50 am
Red Ryder wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:44 am
Nostalgic Mormon guilt seems to have krept into my soul today.
It's weird when that MORmON guilt pops up when you've been done with the COJCOL-d$-Inc. thinking for a while eh?

BAM! Where did that come from??? :oops:
Well obviously Red Ryder's heart has been pricked by the Holy Pricker. Nothing else makes sense!

RR, it's time to Mormon up. If you do everything you can, you can still rescue your daughter from the snare of not giving enough shits about the One True Church. All you have to do is be perfect so the Holy Ghost will stop being offended and dwell within you again. It'll put exactly the right words in your mouth in the moment you need them, which will convince your daughter to become as much of an insufferable sycophant as you'll be.

Scrupulosity is next to godliness, right?
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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wtfluff
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Re: Registered at Target and Amazon...

Post by wtfluff » Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:14 pm

Reuben wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:27 pm
wtfluff wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:50 am
It's weird when that MORmON guilt pops up when you've been done with the COJCOL-d$-Inc. thinking for a while eh?

BAM! Where did that come from??? :oops:
Well obviously Red Ryder's heart has been pricked by the Holy Pricker. Nothing else makes sense!
Damn that Holy Pricker!

(I had almost forgotten about that prick... :P )
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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Red Ryder
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Re: Registered at Target and Amazon...

Post by Red Ryder » Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:28 pm

Palerider wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:16 pm
If you've taught your children to value work, honesty, integrity, to love truth, compassion and mercy, then you have done what every mature parent hopes to. Especially if those children have learned to value those attributes in other people as well.
If so your DD will choose a good mate at an appropriate time for her. And she will be happy.

Isn't that what all parents want for their children? That they can find someone to bear the burdens of life with and be happy?

No organized corporation can do that for a young person. Getting married according to a fabricated timetable won't guarantee anything. No surrounding culture will insure a strong marriage.

Don't beat yourself up over this.

Just value and continue to build the relationship you have with your DD and have faith in her abilities to sort things out.
Thanks cousin from a lighter skinned mother. I appreciate these wise words of wisdom. Really what I needed to here. In fact I’m going to plagiarize this when her mother gets upset too.
Reuben wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:27 pm
Well obviously Red Ryder's heart has been pricked by the Holy Pricker. Nothing else makes sense!

RR, it's time to Mormon up. If you do everything you can, you can still rescue your daughter from the snare of not giving enough shits about the One True Church. All you have to do is be perfect so the Holy Ghost will stop being offended and dwell within you again. It'll put exactly the right words in your mouth in the moment you need them, which will convince your daughter to become as much of an insufferable sycophant as you'll be.

Scrupulosity is next to godliness, right?
Holy Pricker... love it.
Great perspective. There’s always going back I guess. Not.
Thanks Reuben.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Hagoth
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Re: Registered at Target and Amazon...

Post by Hagoth » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:20 am

wtfluff wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:14 pm

Damn that Holy Pricker!

(I had almost forgotten about that prick... :P )
So wait, aren't we supposed to kick against that?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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glass shelf
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Re: Registered at Target and Amazon...

Post by glass shelf » Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:55 pm

Red-
As a 20yo Mormon bride, I want to say that I wish so much that I had really considered other options at that age. Seriously, I think you are giving your kids a fantastic gift even if it doesn't always feel that way in the view of Mormonism.

My parents would say that they always told me I could be whatever I wanted, but it was clear what the expectations were for righteous mormon women when I was growing up and strongly reinforced once I went off to BYU.

One of things I'm most grateful for is that i left the church before my kids were teens so that they did not have the same indoctrination that I had.

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Not Buying It
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Re: Registered at Target and Amazon...

Post by Not Buying It » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:09 pm

You know, every so often I think of my parents and feel guilty that they are watching their grandchildren step off the Mormon path. But then I remind myself - I would not want to condemn my children to a lifetime devoted to a phony, self-important, unreasonably demanding religion. Why would I want that for my children just so my parents won't feel bad?

The guilt surfaces from time to time. The Church would have me believe that is the Spirit trying to lead me back. But it isn't, it's just the natural result of being told a gazillion times growing up in Church that failure to meet the Church's expectations is the worst thing that I could ever do. When that happens, I shake it off, remind myself that Joseph Smith was a lecherous conman and it's all a bunch of hooey, and a few seconds later I am right as rain.

Remember - you don't owe anybody to be a good Mormon - "it is not he or she or them or it that you belong to". They don't own you, don't let them make you feel like they do.

Anymore, when I see my kid's friends go on missions or get married in the temple, I rejoice that my children have slipped the chains of a Mormon existence and are free to be who they would choose to be - free of needless guilt, free of wasted time devoted to a phony religion, free of living in the service of a lie.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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moksha
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Re: Registered at Target and Amazon...

Post by moksha » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:00 pm

The path less taken is nice, but there is also something to be said for the road to normalcy.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Emower
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Re: Registered at Target and Amazon...

Post by Emower » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:17 pm

Milestones represent happiness that life is progressing "as it should." Walk when they are 9-12 months. Talk when they are 18 mo - 1 year. Go to school. on and on. When they dont hit those milestones just right it is kind of distressing. Mormonism throws extra ones in there. From the outside perspective, that marriage milestone does not come for a long time yet. You cant/shouldnt force that milestone. But that is what many of these represent, forced happiness. Your DD is not compelled to fulfill anyone else's vision of what happiness is, and hopefully that is what will make her truly happy.

Put on your a$$less chaps, get back on that horse and ride it into the sunset RR, head held high. You done good.

Reuben
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Re: Registered at Target and Amazon...

Post by Reuben » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:24 pm

Emower wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:17 pm
Milestones represent happiness that life is progressing "as it should." Walk when they are 9-12 months. Talk when they are 18 mo - 1 year. Go to school. on and on. When they dont hit those milestones just right it is kind of distressing. Mormonism throws extra ones in there. From the outside perspective, that marriage milestone does not come for a long time yet. You cant/shouldnt force that milestone. But that is what many of these represent, forced happiness. Your DD is not compelled to fulfill anyone else's vision of what happiness is, and hopefully that is what will make her truly happy.

Put on your a$$less chaps, get back on that horse and ride it into the sunset RR, head held high. You done good.
Is it wrong that I want to see that as a meme?

Edit: I'm assuming just the chaps, yes?
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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2bizE
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Re: Registered at Target and Amazon...

Post by 2bizE » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:50 pm

When I was to be married, I think we registered at the Deseret Industries...
~2bizE

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græy
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Re: Registered at Target and Amazon...

Post by græy » Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:15 pm

I am late to this conversation, but this post hit me pretty hard too.
Red Ryder wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:44 am
I think I’m triggered because my DD’s path is a few feet off the well treaded Mormon trail and I feel guilty. If I hadn’t traded my faith for a cup of coffee, R rated movies, and freedom to think and see the church as a made up religion,
It sucks thinking that our choices will have, or worse, are having negative impacts on our children's lives.
My kids are half assed Mormons because of my apostasy. I haven’t exactly steered them out of the church but they do seem to be headed that way.

I realize my DD is at that age and this could have been her wedding announcements getting opened in today’s mail if only I had not mentally checked out of the church.
I'd be willing to bet that when the day does come for her to send out announcements, she'll be thanking you for not pushing her down that tried-and-provably-false path.
I guess deep down inside I’m morning this loss. Or the realization that our path is different. I’m happy they can think on their own. I feel guilty too. I guess this just shows how deep the brainwashing goes. Our whole life we’ve been taught to follow the gospel path. Success in life is tied to it.

Nostalgic Mormon guilt seems to have krept into my soul today.
The other day a well-meaning but slightly stupid friend brought up the fact that our current bishop will likely be released in the coming months. Within my kids' hearing range this friend joked about me being the prime candidate to be the next bishop. I laughed it off. But later found my kids talking excitedly about the prospect of me being "the one in charge". I probably am in the list of options, but if the call did come, I would absolutely have to turn it down. Despite my being a 6th generation mormon (My great-great-great-great grandfather is in the D&C), I don't know of anyone in my family who has ever been a bishop. Even if the call did come my way, I could not accept.

Anyway, I have no wisdom to offer. I think I've just been feeling the same guilt.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

hmb
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Re: Registered at Target and Amazon...

Post by hmb » Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:40 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:44 am
My DD is at the age where all of her high school friends have now gone on a mission, returned home, and are getting married. Many of them are a few months shy of 21 and have only known their perspective spouse for a few months.

Another wedding announcement came in the mail today. Seeing these young kids announcing their celestial marriage has triggered me. Not because I think they are too young. Or that they haven’t known each other long enough.

I think I’m triggered because my DD’s path is a few feet off the well treaded Mormon trail and I feel guilty. If I hadn’t traded my faith for a cup of coffee, R rated movies, and freedom to think and see the church as a made up religion,

I now feel guilty for encouraging my DD to marry in the temple. It couldn't come soon enough, to avoid an oops. She and her husband are out now, but how much more variety of young adult life could she have had if she hadn't been pressured into marriage?

My mom was active LDS until the day she died. She did regret getting married at 19 though. She said she never experienced adulthood without belonging to someone. The church makes us girls feel less desirable if we don't get married before age 21. You're left feeling like a piece of wilted lettuce, clinging to the side of an empty salad bar container.

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